Grumpy old men: armchair brand management

[Clay]

Also there seems to be a SG pre-tool of Armada Wheeljack done from the thoroughly over-exposed Sideswipe mould? I'd go for a Wheeljack/Rampage if one shows up.

Actually had that set (with SG Rodimus) turn up last week. It's pretty fun: they note in the instructions that you can swing the doors up with the batons on and replicate the old powerlinx feature. Given that they bothered to make the minicon as well, I'd imagine the standard deco will show up at some point, especially with the other Armada throwbacks lined up. It's not like they're shy about re-using the Sideswipe mold.

RE: Chase as Streewise, maybe? He fills out as Prime Cliffjumper as well.

Didn't the Rock Lords kill the Gobot line originally? Would imagine they compromised on vehicles with rock aesthetics so that the figures can interact with other figures/be played with.

[Warcry]

Well, what do we think about the selection for the new Legacy figures? We've got a broad swath of series represented, and I feel that we in this thread should take full credit for it.

"Mostly well-executed but mostly not for me" sums it up, I guess?

The tiny Energon Megatron is probably my favourite of the bunch, both for how cute it is and how completely random it feels. I kind of love it? And the inevitable Galvatron redeco would pair wonderfully with a big Unicron toy.

Turning BW Snarl into an approximation of actual tasmanian devil instead of a demonic weasel (?) like the vintage toy led to a surprising amount of changes overall. I like it? And as with Kingdom Rattrap, the Cores feel a lot more "Beast Warsy" than the bigger size classes because they're still a mess of ball joints.

Not a fan of Animated or the aesthetic, so neither of those figures hugely appeal, but Prime seems remarkably well done and Bumblebee...does not. Chase is in a similar bucket as Optimus for me, very well done but not personally appealing. Windblade's hollow wings are an eyesore.

Tigerhawk looks so similar to the original that it's actually a bit weird. I've had the Razorclaw version for decades and I like it, but at the end of the day it's a very un-dynamic mountain of spring-loaded gimmicks, and seeing thumbnails of what looks like exactly the same toy actually posing was momentarily very confusing. The hollow wings and guns on a $77 Leader-class toy are ridiculous though, and the beast mode doesn't impress me much.

I can't say that I see the appeal of rock-vehicles. Like, at all. I'll pass on those.

Thundertron looks like what you'd get if you challenged someone to design a new Thundertron based off of a verbal description of the old one, without ever actually seeing it. It's recognizable in the broadest of strokes, but doesn't actually have any details in common. I'd have said that the shoulder-claws in robot mode were the most recognizable feature so I can't help but rate the old one higher than the new one.

I reckon the Studio Series Scrapheap beats all of them, although would have been interested in the Rock Lord wannabes if they turned into rocks rather than vehicles made out of rocks.

Honestly? Yeah. I'm not a Junkion fan but Scrapheap is immediately more eye-catching than all of the Legacy stuff.

Also there seems to be a SG pre-tool of Armada Wheeljack done from the thoroughly over-exposed Sideswipe mould? I'd go for a Wheeljack/Rampage if one shows up.

A few years ago I would have been excited for an Armada deco, but after fourteen releases over four years I'm starting to hope someone accidentally deletes the CAD files.

[Tantrum]

Core Energon Megs looks good. I have the big Energon Galvatron from when I was first starting to get back into TFs.

Core animal guy looks nice.

I was looking forward to Windblade, since none of the ones I have are great. But, this one is worse. The wings in bot mode look bad, and are the most prominent thing about the bot. Plus, the face seems to have a frown molded in, extending beyond the painted mouth. I know Windblade as a character mainly from Cyberverse, where she is a cheerful bot with a can do attitude. This bot looks like she just saw her wings in the mirror for the first time.

Deluxe rock guy looks like he has fender/wheel pecs, which is something I don't think I've seen before. But, some pics show him as all grey, which is fine. Other show a mix of black and grey, which looks bad, and runs counter to the rock aesthetic. I'll have to wait to see in person.

Chase could be redone as several Throttlebots. I don't know about Streetwise, though. Chase seems rounder, while Streetwise is more angular. Is Streetwise a popular enough character to warrant a non-combining figure? I bought Dead End as a fan of the character, Dragstrip for the 6-wheeled alt mode, and could go for a Swindle, but one of the other limb bots mean much to me.

I own the Junkion Voyager twice, and will likely own it a 3rd time.

Animated might be my favorite TF cartoon, but neither of these toys interest me. I like the character of Optimus Prime as a washout, but not that design.

[Denyer]

Good shout on the Throttlebots -- all it would take for a few of them is one appropriately scaled design that isn't too angular and this could be it. With some of the barrel-scraping Hasbro does with remoulds and repaints I wouldn't be surprised if we got some non-combining combiner team members but it would be a bit out of character for them.

[Tantrum]

The G2 version of Dead End I picked up does seem to have some trouble with the legs staying together in vehicle mode, so I'm not quite sure what that's about. There seems to be some 'just so' configuration where it sits flush and all pegs together neatly, so sometimes I transforms it and it's fine, other times it's not. The bright red and metallic paints on this do make it look awesome though. Don't know if I'll be all in on a second set of Stunticons (missed out on the hard to find Speedia Shaodwstrip for one thing), but if any others show up in the Toxitron series, I'll likely pick them up.

Are you folding the heels all the way in? You have to apply more force than you'd think, and there's an audible click. You can hear at 7:23 in Prime vs Prime's review. I thought my (G1 deco) Dead End was defective because the back of the car wouldn't go together. Then, I pushed the heels in harder, and it's great.

Also, Shadowstrip is apparently showing up at Ross discounters in the US. I don't know how much that helps you, but it may be more attainable than you think.

A few years ago I would have been excited for an Armada deco, but after fourteen releases over four years I'm starting to hope someone accidentally deletes the CAD files.

I've only got the Siege Red Alert and Sideswipe versions of the Lambo mold. I could go for an Earth mode version of the Armada design with the scratched out faction symbol.


I was at Walmart today, and guess what I saw right next to Legacy Blitzwing. Legacy Evolution Blitzwing. They've rereleased the figure warming a shelf in just about every Walmart and Target. Apparently, they think it hasn't sold because the little picture of the jet mode is in the wrong corner of the box.

[Denyer]

Only got the first Sideswipe personally... ended up with Slamdance separately from the G2 Sideswipe. Although if I can get one separately or the pack cheaply I'd quite like the Kingdom one that was repacked with the eagle to repaint closer to ActionMaster Sideswipe colours.

edit: viewtopic.php?p=774515#p774515

[Denyer]

It's sort of possible to get the deluxe class rock jeep to look more like just a rock.

https://news.tfw2005.com/2023/10/07/tra ... ges-496186

But not sure if there's any way to conceal the tyres in robot mode.

[Denyer]

At the Commander class price point, the honeycomb hollowness of Magmatron is shockingly bad, isn't it? The dino necks are enough to put anyone off, even though it looks like some of the parts could be rotated around for display. Shouldn't need 3P filler parts to not look shit at around a hundred bucks. Remaindered in 1-2-3...

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0CG2HZ6K9


https://i.imgur.com/EcJ0LHP.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/UoMZ1kp.jpg

[Denyer]

Heavily clearanced Ultimates things (and everything else) including TFs, Thundercats, etc. Bombshell and Banzaitron thirteen quid delivered each or the full wave one for less than the original price of one figure.

https://www.comicsandcocktails.co.uk/st ... c142287586

And they still won't shift.

[Skyquake87]

Well Bombshell and Banzaitron have shifted to me! Thanks for the heads up! I was interested in these, but the original RRP was more than I could afford. I've also heard Super 7's QC is a bit sketchy, but the ReAction figures of theirs I picked up (also on heavy discount) were pretty good.

Sign of the times, I guess. The pandemic was a boon to toy manufacturers with a captive audience keeping themselves entertained with hobbies and that; seems to have galvanised the market just in time for wars and oil and gas conspiring to make everything more expensive.

[Denyer]

The biggest problem with Super7 stuff seems to be that they don't learn (or can't apply knowledge) to using appropriate plastics. So you get hands that are too rigid or don't grip, in particular, or waxy finishes and quite low detail sculpts like their "vintage" style MOTU stuff. Either is less of a problem with ReAction type figures.

With Bombshell he did need hot water to avoid damaging the hands, and the weapons need a bit of help to stay held. But when I bit at half price or less it did feel like a premium product and the fidelity to the AM design is really nice. There are a few other AMs I'd possibly pay more for if they did as good a job with. Otherwise, the only other one I'm picking up is Bludgeon because there's no way I'm getting another one of the original pretender shells for what they tend to go for when it's just a brick.

Unless something similar to this happens, like it does occasionally with other Ultimates stock getting heavily discounted. C&C are generally worth a gander every so often -- although it seems that the first wave of TF Ultimates was heavily speculated on by retailers. But some Turtles figures have also shown up in B&M type stores and then on eBay. Anyway, got the pack of two Kraangs + walker for twenty, which was a respectable bargain, and the recently released Mandora (Thundercats) for half RRP.

We do seem to be seeing the 'bust' stage of the Super7 cycle. I think TF Ultimates will get scaled back or cancelled. They got very backed up with schedules, I think the Turtles stuff being clearanced happened because retailers had contracts that protected them from suddenly received a late glut of stock that would've gathered dust, and Super7 is in general luxury/overpriced* stuff that they've cannibalised their own market on by doing lots of different franchises simultaneously.

Plus competitors. The number of big ticket items over the last few years that's all mid-80s such as Haslab Unicron, Eternia playset, Thundertank / Cat's Lair, Turtle wagon, Mondo MOTU, etc is a zero sum game.

*The only way to bring costs down is probably volume, and second/third tier characters aren't viable. It's impressive what 3Ps seem to have done for TFs by appealing to fandom in Asia, but also very noticeable how more of the product has triangulated on 'safe' releases such as undercutting MP stuff as Takara prices itself out.

[Denyer]

McFarlane Toys Signs Multi-Brand Licensing Agreement with Hasbro
https://toynewsi.com/news.php?itemid=50888

McFarlane Toys has announced an exciting, multi-brand licensing agreement with leading toy and game company Hasbro, adding TRANSFORMERS, POWER RANGERS, G.I. JOE and DUNGEONS & DRAGONS to their Page Punchers line-up. Kicking off with TRANSFORMERS and G.I. JOE products, each Page Puncher will include a full comic book and two articulated figures.

So presumably smaller scale figures.

Maybe they're batshit enough to finally give us Neo-Knights, or Josie and G.B. at least.

[Denyer]

Worth a watch for ex-employee perspectives on Hasbro's second round of mass layoffs.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NyV9gzgcbEQ

[Denyer]

And rather strong evidence that the company intends to switch a load of art requirements over to AI and pay college grads to clean it up:

https://twitter.com/girldrawsghosts/sta ... 5952686502 or https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1736 ... 86502.html

[Clay]

And rather strong evidence that the company intends to switch a load of art requirements over to AI and pay college grads to clean it up:

https://twitter.com/girldrawsghosts/sta ... 5952686502 or https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1736 ... 86502.html

Was coming here to post screencaps of that.

Definitely worth revisiting the next time Hasbro posts profit numbers.

I wonder how much specific data can be fed into AI prompts. Like, at what point can they feed the art generator the CAD models of the toys and tell it to kick out an image of the figure in the Ironman landing pose in the style of [x]?

[Denyer]

My guess is we're already there with some of the systems already commercially available and some already work around common glitches like hands, etc, so to be honest I wouldn't expect that much need for retouching. Hasbro do have big enough owned collections of art that I suspect they could train one up from scratch but it's still highly doubtful that whatever systems are in use are "clean" of outside IP somewhere in the chain.

It's like big established studios already have or will quickly have enough high enough quality footage to dispense with extras in many circumstances. But not content with that will cheat anyway unless there's more transparency mandated and regulated, and will have enough leverage to make sure that artists will sign away unrestricted transformative reuse in contracts. And if the systems are genuinely clean end-to-end of unauthorised IP then other than being ordinarily abusive to talent/creators it's the acceptable end of machine learning. There'll be considerably less need for billable hours for fairly generic work like stock "photos" (renders) and packaging.

It could do some of the CAD work too, I'm sure work is already trending towards libraries of fairly reusable part designs enough that whipping up alternate heads or panels etc is doable -- but it's also quick work for designers with more of an assurance of quality.

[Denyer]

Question spinning off from discussion about 'dead' Ironhide and Prowl in the Top X of 2023 thread...

How long do we think big box stores will keep taking stuff that gets heavily clearanced? Are misfires forgiven, or are they locked into multi-year agreements (which seems unlikely based on how Walmart, Target, Amazon, etc, operate)? Are they getting the stock at prices which mean they don't care?

[Warcry]

How frequently are Transformers going on deep discount in the UK? I honestly can't recall the last time I've even seen a significant sale from Canadian retailers. The last one I can remember taking advantage of was Kingdom Rodimus for almost 50% off two Black Fridays ago. I know I've seen a few of the BW reissues pushed to places like Marshalls last year, but that's about it. Brick and mortar would rather sit on old stock, and online retailers never seem to have enough to meet demand to begin with.

But we used to get crazy, frequent discounts. Toys'R'Us would have frequent BOGO or 25-40% off sales, and Amazon would have massive Black Friday and Boxing Day deals. You'd even get frequent, longer-lasting rollbacks at Walmart. The poor distribution pretty much put an end to that. So maybe that's what you've got to look forward to? Retailers deciding that they'd rather under-order than risk getting caught with product they need to discount, leading to having to pay MSRP if you can even find something you want on the perpetually half-empty shelves.

[Denyer]

The deep discounts mostly aren't retailers clearing their own stock. Although both brick and mortar stores like Smyths and online retailers such as Kapow, ID and C&C do it to clear down older inventory and at significant mark down to clear the last few of things, deep discounts are now constant at retailers that have bought liquidation stock, presumably from the US, and it's ended up in Game, BargainMax, B&M, Tk Maxx, etc. This isn't just a recent thing, the T30 stuff and TR did as well. It's unbalancing the domestic market more now because the gap between initial release and imported clearance stock is narrowing. Not sure it affects Smyths much, they still have TFs online unlike MOTU so I assume are doing okay and the last TF I bought in store was Grapple just before the first lockdown (did get Scorponok via click and collect at Argos though) but places like Kapow are placing smaller initial orders and themselves taking advantage of later cheap wholesale prices... for example, bargain Coronation Starscreams have been restocked multiple times.

So the question's partly selfish; we'll probably keep getting deep discounted stuff as long as Hasbro's relationships with US monopoly supermarkets continue.

[Warcry]

Got it! We had the same sort of phenomenon here a decade and a bit ago, but it didn't last very long. Just absolute scads of overproduced Movie, ROTF, Generations, Reveal the Shield, etc. figures flooding liquidators. Unfortunately, most liquidators don't seem much interested in stocking Transformers after that. Maybe the rising MSRP has made it so that even the price that liquidators have to pay is too high to get a return on their investment here?