[New RPG] So what IS Cybertron, anyway?

[Warcry]

The visual portrayal of Cybertron has always been pretty consistent -- a planet clad in metal, covered with lights. But why does it look like that? Did Primus or the Quintessons shape the world that way right from the start, or did the Transformers built it up slowly over time? And does it have any organic components or is it completely, 100% technological?

I've always been a fan of the idea that Cybertron was an ecumenopolis like Coruscant or Trantor, with the entire world covered by a single sprawling city that's built on the remnants of even older cities. and those older cities are built on top of even older ones, on and on until you get all the way down to the planet's small, rocky core. In fact I think it would extend even farther than that, with both of the moons and much of Cybertron's orbital space built up as well. Depending on how long they've been going at it they might have even strip-mined their entire solar system for the raw materials they would need to do that much building.

I don't mind the idea that the original world was organic before Primus's influence, but aside from simple single-celled organisms like bacteria there's probably not much left.

Cybertronian wildlife (things like turbofoxes and glitch mice and the like) have never really made much sense to me, but as I've thought about it I'm wondering they they aren't just the cleaning droids and other non-sentient machines that were built to maintain the lower, abandoned levels of city, gone feral after hundreds or thousands of years being left alone.

[optimusskids]

I can see Mirage and friends comissioning Turbofoxes just so they'd have something to hunt.

I agree with the development of the surrounding space I can see Cybertron as having orbital warehousing, space stations , ore processors and smelters orbital habvitats etc and with a possibility of having more than one habitable planet in the system given the tech levels terraforming would be within their reach.

As for what its always looked like if the Quints were the originators it would have started life as a factory planet churning out consumer products of various types with a few Quint settlements on the surface and as they dissapeared and transformers developed as Warcry said new settlemetns wer ebuilt on top and they all eventually merged.

[Aero Blade]

Things such as Turbofoxes might have been experiments by Primus in making his lifeforms (it's been indicated that he didn't go straight to the current type of transformers), or might have even been migrated in from other planets, or experimental creations that were lost control of and became wildlife.

Some things like Turbofoxes, being relatively benighing things, were probably largely left alone except for those elitists that enjoyed the hunt like Mirage did. Creatures such as the Scraplets from the Cybertron series (or whatever they were called) I could see as pests that wound up settling on Cybertron from elsewhere, or perhaps recycling droids gone ferral. Despite massive erradication protocols, the little vermin manage to persist in the non-populated run down areas where they continue to scavage.

[Blackjack]

The visual portrayal of Cybertron has always been pretty consistent -- a planet clad in metal, covered with lights. But why does it look like that? Did Primus or the Quintessons shape the world that way right from the start, or did the Transformers built it up slowly over time?

I've always liked the Marvel comics idea of Primus reshaping his world slowly, and the Transformers slowly building their way up, creating layers upon layers upon layers of stuff. One of the original Thirteen must be a master builder.

And does it have any organic components or is it completely, 100% technological?

No biological Cybertrons please thank you very much.

Despite my rabid love for Beast Machines this is one factor I wouldn't like to see everyone become techno-organics here... although Techno-organism might be another religion to consider. 'The Church of the Hippie Gorillas' or something like that.

I've always been a fan of the idea that Cybertron was an ecumenopolis like Coruscant or Trantor, with the entire world covered by a single sprawling city that's built on the remnants of even older cities. and those older cities are built on top of even older ones, on and on until you get all the way down to the planet's small, rocky core. In fact I think it would extend even farther than that, with both of the moons and much of Cybertron's orbital space built up as well. Depending on how long they've been going at it they might have even strip-mined their entire solar system for the raw materials they would need to do that much building.

I love this. Gigantion was basically one of this as well, and if Cybertron's multi-leveled shtick we saw in the Marvel comics, Dreamwave, Beast Machines et al, this would be the only explanation.

Would also give a leeway for Transformers trapped on Cybertron who don't have protection like Pretender shells.

I don't mind the idea that the original world was organic before Primus's influence, but aside from simple single-celled organisms like bacteria there's probably not much left.

This one I like.

I agree with the development of the surrounding space I can see Cybertron as having orbital warehousing, space stations , ore processors and smelters orbital habvitats etc and with a possibility of having more than one habitable planet in the system given the tech levels terraforming would be within their reach.

Hmmm, orbital stuff would only make sense for a species as advanced as Transformers. Although terraforming is likely something we wouldn't want to use until much later in the game.

As for what its always looked like if the Quints were the originators it would have started life as a factory planet churning out consumer products of various types with a few Quint settlements on the surface and as they dissapeared and transformers developed as Warcry said new settlemetns wer ebuilt on top and they all eventually merged.

Nice idea, too, this one.

Things such as Turbofoxes might have been experiments by Primus in making his lifeforms (it's been indicated that he didn't go straight to the current type of transformers), or might have even been migrated in from other planets, or experimental creations that were lost control of and became wildlife.

Like the demons, eh? Only less savage and more beasty.

Some things like Turbofoxes, being relatively benighing things, were probably largely left alone except for those elitists that enjoyed the hunt like Mirage did. Creatures such as the Scraplets from the Cybertron series (or whatever they were called) I could see as pests that wound up settling on Cybertron from elsewhere, or perhaps recycling droids gone ferral. Despite massive erradication protocols, the little vermin manage to persist in the non-populated run down areas where they continue to scavage.

Wasn't the Scraplets from the original Marvel comics?

What about Mini-Cons? Where do they come from?

[Aero Blade]

Wasn't the Scraplets from the original Marvel comics?

No clue, first saw them in Cybertron/Galaxy Force toon myself.

What about Mini-Cons? Where do they come from?

In the Armada toon the Minicons were made by Unicron to be infultrators into transformer society to make way for his coming. They were meant to be mindless drones at his command, but they were awakened and he lost control of them. Armada comics never explained their origins, instead just doing great depth on how Megatron converted them, then skipped very fast through Unicron's part of the plot (eager to transition their comics into Energon).

In C/GF toon they were found to be working along side of the guys on the giant transformer planet, but it wasn't fully explained. The fact that Vector Prime, functioning as an agent of Primus in that version, had several minicons with him lends me to think that batch of minicons weren't likely associated with Unicron, and are probably just small mechs. They didn't exhibit any of the power-enhancements that the Armada minicons expressed (though they did have those silly keys doing that already)

[Blackjack]

No clue, first saw them in Cybertron/Galaxy Force toon myself.

Oh, the Scrapmetals... love those little bugs.

Both Scraplets (little nuts-and-bolts parasites that swarm and spread like leprosy on Transformers. Only killable with the mythical substance... water) and Scrapmetals were pests, though. If we have Scrapmetals I'd rather see them able to reproduce/replicate asexually like the Insecticons via cloning. They are basically Insecticons, right?

Are the Insecticons going to be metallic bugs from the start?

In the Armada toon the Minicons were made by Unicron to be infultrators into transformer society to make way for his coming. They were meant to be mindless drones at his command, but they were awakened and he lost control of them. Armada comics never explained their origins, instead just doing great depth on how Megatron converted them, then skipped very fast through Unicron's part of the plot (eager to transition their comics into Energon).

Mmm, always forgot about the Minicons meant to be Unicron's servants thing. Are we going to use that for the Minicons in our RPG? It would totally be awesome to have these seemingly innocent, child-like beings suddenly betray the Autobots and Decepticons to serve Unicron... and not do a heel face turn to help the good guys.

In C/GF toon they were found to be working along side of the guys on the giant transformer planet, but it wasn't fully explained. The fact that Vector Prime, functioning as an agent of Primus in that version, had several minicons with him lends me to think that batch of minicons weren't likely associated with Unicron, and are probably just small mechs. They didn't exhibit any of the power-enhancements that the Armada minicons expressed (though they did have those silly keys doing that already)

Aye, although that series' Jolt could talk for some reason. I don't see them birthed in a similar way like the Minicons from Armada, though. Probably a less tainted strain or somesuch? For all it's worth, those keys were stupid. A much worse gimmick than the Minicons.

What about the Minicons from the Classics line? I heard they have a backstory or somesuch... -goes off to check-

EDIT: the Classics-era Minicons were created by the Last Autobot when the Autobots and Decepticons were on Klo. To rebuild Cybertron, apparently. Well, that's a little stupid. Let's go Armada all the way.

[Springer85]

I hope we stay away from Minicons. I never really liked the concept.

[Aero Blade]

I love Armada, my favorite series in the world, but outside of the Armada and Cybertron series I really don't see the minicons as working well. That's not to say we couldn't have small mechs, as we have minibots and micromasters running around, but I think we should steer clear of the minicon assignment to any of our mechs.

[Blackjack]

Personally I've always found the Minicons interesting. Oh, sure, the 'innocent and pure' shtick is crap, and the bleep-bllop things make me wonder if they keep swearing and had to be censored out. But a third race of peace loving Transformers, able to supply larger Transformers with power-ups, and then hunted down like prizes even by the supposedly peaceful Autobots...

Now give them actual personalities instead of the 'everyone is pure and innocent' crap we had in nearly every incarnation we have of the Minicons, and they could work easily. Heck, we could throw in a twist and make the Minicons the product of Unicron, causing anyone who powered up with them become addicted a la Dark Energon.., while the Minis themselves try to free themselves from the oppression of Autobots, Decepticons and Unicron alike...

Of course, that's just me.

[optimusskids]

The problen have is if I was a minicon I'd take immediate steps to make sure I was running on betamax while the bots and cons were running on VHS so to speak so that their was no further need to be hunted and I'd make it irreversible as possible.

[Warcry]

Considering how they've become a core part of Transformers since Armada, I don't think we can exclude Mini-Cons entirely. They show up everywhere now -- not only do we have Unicron Trilogy Minicons, we also have G1 Minicons, Movieverse Minicons, Prime Minicons and even Beast Wars Minicons (well, one). I certainly don't think that they'll fit into our story they way they did in Armada, but in recent years "Minicon" has become a blanket term for almost any small Transformer. It's been applied to fully-robotic Targetmasters and even Soundwave's cassettes. It's pretty hard to avoid nowadays and I don't have a problem using the terminology, especially since some people are going to want to play Minicon characters.

I think the real question is how do we define Minicons? Are they just another type of small Transformer alongside Micromasters, or are they something different? I've always figured that non-Armada Minicons are different from Micromasters because Micromasters are independent but Minicons are partnered with bulks.

[Springer85]

I don't think we should introduce all these things right from the start. Minicons, Dark Energon, Unicron, all that. I'm afraid that it migth get a little hard to keep track of everything. But that's just me

If we are going to introduce them, I would really not want to see them being slaves of Transformers or being able to give them huge power-ups. Maybe non-human Targetmasters and such can be referred to as minicons?

[Springer85]

Whoops, double post, Sorry!

[Brave Maximus]

Couple of things from conversations recently.

As to the make up/how cybertron looks. I could never imagine it as Coracant. That was a hub for an entire galaxy. Even at the beginning, Cybertron (while huge) was isolated, and the population would have grown. I always imagined it with a bunch of city states and then in between something like this:

Could you imagine vast fields of solar energy collectors, Silos of stored energon, Cable and energy transmission farms, even experimental mater/antimater reactors, as far as the eye could see. Seriously picture a cross between Saskatchewan and the Matrix. Fields crackling with energon tended by Bots the size of City-Bots and Omega Sentinels (hmmm interesting idea for where they first immerged from...)
Even vast oceans, rivers and lakes of Energon, that the cities would form around.

This would be the logical way to support a pre-war population, since in almost every series/incarnation - they say that it was the war that made Cybertron unlivable. I can imagine the Decepticons securing some production areas then razing the rest of the planet. Leaving most of cybertron a blasted unpleasent wasteland.

As for Minicons... to go along with that:

I kind of like the idea of how they were presented in the Armada Comics. A sub-race of Transformers who's job was to maintain the planet. Could see them running inbetween the solar collector spires and what not. If there were Giant TF's around to work on them as well, their power-link abilities could have come from the need to modify as they go along.
Caretaker A needs a cutting torch, no worries, "flamethrower" hops on and now he has one. Caretaker B needs more power to lift a fallen section, no problem "Strongarm" links up and he can do the job. It eliminates the need for "swiss army knife" Caretakers and allows for smaller bots to work in amongst everything.

I have to agree with Springer: I'd hate to see them as slaves. Maybe early on, Megatron/Shockwave tried to work on a way to force them to link - but abbandoned the idea, with Powerlinking only being something that can happen willingly, not through force. Then when (if we go this route) the Decepticons raze the fields... they razed the workers with it.