Ye Olde Doctor Who Thread.

[inflatable dalek]

He is comfortably out of his tree on the Rani's drug at that point though.

Considering how vague the regeneration actually is the amount of people who like to think 6 had just finished an exciting adventure that killed him off makes sense now.

I'd actually forgotten how good McCoy is here, the general consensus seems to be he didn't really get going until the end of the season but, despite frequently risible dialogue (though I actually like the mixed metaphors having three every scene is a bit much...) he does the silly stuff in a way that's fun rather than annoying and in the few points that require him to be serious he manages it perfectly (even this early the direction's taking advantage of his great angst face, lots of big close ups).

I do wonder why he bothers going through the clothes stick when he's blatently wearing the outfit he'll eventually decide on under all the different coats (the Rupert Bear trousers are the main give-away), perhaps he just really enjoys winding up Mel.

[inflatable dalek]

Just watched it with commentary, though I'd known it had originally been conceived as Colin's last story rather than Sylv's first I didn't know they'd gone as far as scripting a 6 version before he declined to do the changeover.

So if they'd have their way the 6th Doctor would have died the same way Donald Pickering does at the end of the final version, ie stayed standing by a exploding giant brain for no good reason whatsoever. I think I actually prefer the version we did get, at least you can just assume something awesome just happened off screen.

The hilarious thing about the commentary is Sylvester and Bonnie pointing out how crap this is to the Baker's and them struggling to come up for a good reason for it.

[Heinrad]

Why can't they have the DVDs out around where I live now? Bloody useless Wal-Mart.....

Has anybody tried the Adventure Games yet?

[Summerhayes]

I recently managed to pick up a new copy of the two Peter Cushing Dalek films. Sure, the doctor is a human with the surname "Who" and the daleks have claws not suckers and you can kill one by pushing it down a ramp but I love these films.
For my money, Invasion Earth (and the serial on which it is based) are the daleks at some of their most threatening.
The voices are particularly powerful, and there's something very real and terrifying about the deadly gas they shoot that laser beams just don't have.

[Halfshell]

Why can't they have the DVDs out around where I live now? Bloody useless Wal-Mart.....

Are WalMart really responsible for the R1 release schedule?

[inflatable dalek]

I'm fond of the Dalek films as well, big silly Sunday afternoon channel 4 fun for the weeks they didn't show the 60's Batman film.

[Cliffjumper]

Can't stand the first one because of Ian (if I was a nasty man I'd say karma got Castle for that one, but I'm not so I won't) and the sheer weight of camp - it's like watching the CBBC show. Second one's better due to Cribbins, Madoc and funky saucers. The biggest problem is that they were based on two pretty piss stories - should've optioned The Massacre to Hammer instead, with Cushing as the Doctor, Ralph Bates as Steven, Ingrid Pitt as Anne, Christopher Lee as Gaston, Herbert Lom as the Sea Beggar, Racquel Welch as Dodo and Andre Morell as Andre Morell. Or begged Leone do to The Gunfighters, with Henry Fonda as the Doctor, Clint Eastwood as Steven and Claudia Cardinale as Dodo. See, I should be in charge of this sort of thing.

[Heinrad]

They probably aren't responsible for the R1 release schedule, but they don't carry any Doctor Who DVDs at all.

[inflatable dalek]

An interesting little article here on the efforts put into creating some sort of recons for the missing episodes of The Avengers on the current DVD's that makes you realise how lucky (relatively) Who is with the amount of material available on its missing shows. In comparison The Avengers has no soundtracks (though there's apparently one out there the owner isn't sharing), the telesnaps were only found last year and only cover half the season and there's not even scripts available for a lot of the shows:

http://declassified.theavengers.tv/keel ... ctions.htm

In other news, I finished B7 today. Bloody hell, that's even more depressing when you've watched the whole lot in one go. I need a hug.

I'd forgotten what a camp old thing Paul Darrow is in real life as well, plus he a big Serentiy fan, good taste that man.

[Summerhayes]

B7's depressing as hell in any dosage.

[inflatable dalek]

Just a heads up that Matt Smith is in this weeks Sarah Jane Adventures with Jo Grant, in a story that apparently is going to see RTD finally get to fulfill his wish to have the Doctor firmly say he can regenerate as often as he likes (oddly this made the Guardian website, which I guess shows how ingrained in people's knowledge of this show this bit of info that hasn't been mentioned in 14 years is).

Hopefully Jo will have a comedy lethal accident of some sort.

In other news: Is it sad I brought the Remembrance special edition soley to replace that **** aweful cover on the original? Oh, and so the picture on the spine matches the other McCoy's. And for the previously rights buggered Beatles music and accidentally removed extermination effect. Yeah, that's good reason to buy the same thing twice.

[Halfshell]

(oddly this made the Guardian website, which I guess shows how ingrained in people's knowledge of this show this bit of info that hasn't been mentioned in 14 years is).

Given that he was gifted another cycle in, er, The Five Doctors? I can't remember... where was I before the smoke alarm went off? Right yeah, given that he was gifted another cycle, when was the last time the 13 regenerations thing was explicitly mentioned anyway?

Oh, and so the picture on the spine matches the other McCoy's.

Something redundantified by the slipcase...

[Cliffjumper]

Don't make me dig out that Lance Parkin article. I've always kinda liked the loose theory that McCoy was the 13th "Ultimate" Doctor and McGann was the start of a second cycle perhaps triggered by the Eye of Harmony to stop the Master punching a hole in the universe or whatever he was actually up to. It'd also explain the ninth Doctor being an absolute twat and the way the previous 26 seasons are only mentioned grudging in the CBBC stuff.

A very good get-out is that the Doctor has a habit of a) having this sort of thing retconned constantly and b) talking unmitigated shite in this regard (e.g. his age). Add in any sort of Time Wars/Eye of Harmony/Last of the Timelords Universe Gold Tinkly stuff with that ****ing Murray Gold Gladiator music playing will get them through it anyway. Hopefully they'll come up with something more honest, though, like a BBC merchandising exec running in with jump-leads when the 13th Doctor (Danny Dyer, at the end of a fortnight's reign since taking over from the six-month tenure of the one with the dog called Schmeichel from Coronation Street) buys the farm saving companrion Cher off X-Factor, screaming "NO! THE CASH MACHINE CANNOT DIE!".

The new stuff's shit, have I mentioned that? The old stuff's shit as well in places, but it's not as twatty about it. VIDFire still freaks me out, though.

[inflatable dalek]

Given that he was gifted another cycle in, er, The Five Doctors? I can't remember... where was I before the smoke alarm went off? Right yeah, given that he was gifted another cycle, when was the last time the 13 regenerations thing was explicitly mentioned anyway?

The TV Movie was the last time it was mentioned (even if, somewhat hilariously, they got the number of lives he has wrong and had to go in and redub it after filming...). Not sure what you mean about the The Five Doctors, the Master gets offered a new cycle in it but there's no mention of the Doctor receiving one.


On the one hand it doesn't really bother me hugely, it's only retconing a retcon that was only introduced as a plot point for one specific story after all. And I think we all know the beeb were never going to let it stand in the way of continuing the show if it was still popular by the time they get to that point, at least dealing with it this early makes it seem less forced than doing it thirty seconds before the 13th Doctor dies.

On the other hand though... I've always liked the idea that there is a definative end, a final adventure where he would die. It also makes the end of The Parting of the Ways even sillier, if he's got unlimited regenerations there's really no reason for him not to be just opening up the Tardis and zapping the enemies with his death ray eyes before regenerating every time things get heavy.

Something redundantified by the slipcase...

Quiet you. Hmm, the Davison picture on Caves doesn't match either, best be getting the Revisitations set as well. At least this sort of thing isn't a problem with McGann.

Don't make me dig out that Lance Parkin article. I've always kinda liked the loose theory that McCoy was the 13th "Ultimate" Doctor and McGann was the start of a second cycle perhaps triggered by the Eye of Harmony to stop the Master punching a hole in the universe or whatever he was actually up to. It'd also explain the ninth Doctor being an absolute twat and the way the previous 26 seasons are only mentioned grudging in the CBBC stuff.

Assuming it's the same article as in Licence Denied, doesn't Parkin make the case Davison was the 13th Doctor rather than McCoy (ie, the faces in Morbius plus the five TV Doctors, with Colin as the first in a new run, hence explaining why it's such a difficult regeneration?)? Or is the McCoy thing some other theory I've not heard before?

The new show has no problem with embracing the past now either, seriously, I was actually a bit bored by William Hartnell cameos by the end of this year. Plus Zygons, Drahvins and Chenoleons (? The New Adventures turtle things) being just off stage in the season final.

The new stuff's shit, have I mentioned that? The old stuff's shit as well in places, but it's not as twatty about it. VIDFire still freaks me out, though.

Ohhh, I love VIDFIRE. Every B&W story is just staggering when it comes out, and almost makes the silly release system seem worthwhile. Though if you really hate it, apparently it doesn't work if you watch the DVD on a PC IIRC.

[Cliffjumper]

Ohh, is there old stuff in the Smith thing?

I don't hate VIDFire, it just weirds me out... I got very used to the knackered old masters, and the "just filmed yesterday" look is unsettling after that. It always looks like colour TV with a filter...

And yeh, the Parkin suggestion was Davison ("feels different this time") with Colin as the difficult 2nd First Doctor... I find McCoy is a better fit, though, having purged Colin to prevent the Valeyard. It makes sense if you follow the NAs - the McCoy in those pulls off things that make the variou plot device abilities of the RTD Doctors look like conjuring tricks. It's a theory that falls apart if you poke it (even putting aside common sense things like "Isn't it odd that they never, ever show pre-Hartnell incarnations apart from in Brain of Morbius?", the numbering's consistent and logical), but there we go.

[inflatable dalek]

Ohh, is there old stuff in the Smith thing?

It's positively JNT at times. I guess that, with the bulk of the younger end of the audience only being aware of Tennant as the Doctor and very attached to him (the first time this has really happened since... Davison? Possibly even Tom) they were keen to ease Smith in by emphasising the shows lineage and the fact he's a man with many faces.

It possibly got a bit silly in places (a Two Doctors clip representing the Sontarans in a flashback? I'd have never predicted that), but it's hard not to have a bit of a thrill at the Doctor's library card having a picture of Hartnell on it and giving his address as Totters Lane.

I don't hate VIDFire, it just weirds me out... I got very used to the knackered old masters, and the "just filmed yesterday" look is unsettling after that. It always looks like colour TV with a filter...

I think it makes them look fresh myself. I know people get annoyed at it now looking more obviously like a cheap TV show shot on video, but that's because it's a cheap TV show shot on video rather than a fault of getting the picture as close as its ever going to be to how it was broadcast.

And yeh, the Parkin suggestion was Davison ("feels different this time") with Colin as the difficult 2nd First Doctor... I find McCoy is a better fit, though, having purged Colin to prevent the Valeyard. It makes sense if you follow the NAs - the McCoy in those pulls off things that make the variou plot device abilities of the RTD Doctors look like conjuring tricks. It's a theory that falls apart if you poke it (even putting aside common sense things like "Isn't it odd that they never, ever show pre-Hartnell incarnations apart from in Brain of Morbius?", the numbering's consistent and logical), but there we go.

I think the problem with making the TV Movie the change moment (other than the fact the Master hasn't buggered about with the Eye at the point he regenerates, so it should be business as usual) is that it's not a very good fit for a story that's all about how Time Lords can only absolutely regenerate 12 times. Even the Master's planning a simple body swap this time rather than giving his body extra regenerations.

Still, I'll take pre-Hartnell Doctor's over that Other nonsense. "I'm more than just a Time Lord! I'm the reincarnation of a really important Time Lord!" Well, OK, we already knew you were a really important Time Lord, what with the whole saving the Universe thing. "I hung out with Omega and Rassilon!" Errr... we've already seen you do that on TV. Do you actually have a proper big secret or is it all recycled stuff? "Susan's not my Granddaughter, she's really the relative of someone who it's OK in the eyes of fans to have had sex".

JNT had the right idea about leaving it a vague mystery, and frankly if there's one good thing the new series has done it's firmly piss all over the idea (though some of the justification for the Master as a child flashback from NA fans was sweetly funny "Well, obviously he's not actually a child, Time Lords just give newly loomed adults a sense of childhood by surrounding them with oversized props and giants").

Incidentally, Smith calling himself the 11th Doctor this year was a surprisingly late in the day way of ruling out there having been 80 regenerations between McGann and Ecles.

EDIT: This sort of thing as far as flashbacks go:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=73xZAk7oKcM

[Cliffjumper]

All they've really got to do is find some plausible way of making the 13 incarnations thing more of a legal law than a physical one... That the Time Lords were able to (seemingly genuinely) offer the Master a new cycle in "The Five Doctors" (am I the only one who feels a bit sorry for the Master in that one, incidentally?) is basically all that's really needed, and there aren't many outright contradictions out there, all it needs is some way of making a cycle a privilege and not a right.

Oh, and the TV Movie also relies heavily on the Doctor (or the 8th Doctor at least) being half-human; I think it's fair to say what it has to say about the Doctor's physiology is open to retconning at least. Don't get me wrong, I really, really like the TV Movie for a lot of stuff (McGann, Roberts, McCoy, the TARDIS sets, its' suicidal inaccessability [they expected a prime-time American audience to follow that?!?]), but at the same time a lot of it was bollocks and is probably best not thought about... I was glad "The Next Doctor" canonised (for want of a better term) McGann, though.

That said, I do think a lot of this stuff (especially "sex versus looms") isn't actually all that important to the series besides providing it with remarkable longevity - the day any story goes out of its' way to sidetrack into that sort of thing is probably the day most viewers switch off. The show's rarely been about this sort of thing (and even in the old days outright statements of things like the 13 lives are relatively rare - numerically speaking he's probably decked people more times than he's mentioned how many lives he's had, and how often now does the character actually get physical?).

The thing with VIDFire for me is that I've owned something like Tomb of the Cybermen for 18 years, so I've probably seen the better black and whites 20-30 times, it's just a bit weird suddenly seeing them looking so different and takes a bit of getting used to. I suspect once I've seen the VIDFired versions a few times it'll fade...

[inflatable dalek]

All they've really got to do is find some plausible way of making the 13 incarnations thing more of a legal law than a physical one... That the Time Lords were able to (seemingly genuinely) offer the Master a new cycle in "The Five Doctors" (am I the only one who feels a bit sorry for the Master in that one, incidentally?) is basically all that's really needed, and there aren't many outright contradictions out there, all it needs is some way of making a cycle a privilege and not a right.

If you go with it being something they developed technologically rather than evolutionary (which I suppose is most likely, even if there are some aspects of regeneration you can't see them devising on purpose, why a whole new personality?) then I'd go with the simplist explanation being they simply got better at it.

The bit in The Five Doctors is truely bonkers, regardless of how much it makes sense in terms of the shows wider law (which is after all, a fairly minor thing in terms of entertaining the nation), it's completely incomparable with Borusa's motivation in seeking immortality by sticking his finger in Rassilon's ring. Why not just do to himself what he offers the Master? "Help us rescue the Doctor and we'll not atomise" would have been as strong a incentive for the Master surely.

And I do feel for the Master there, he tries to do the right thing and gets royally shafted at every turn. All he gets out of it is that nice new cloak the open ended power boosted transmat beam gives him.

Oh, and the TV Movie also relies heavily on the Doctor (or the 8th Doctor at least) being half-human; I think it's fair to say what it has to say about the Doctor's physiology is open to retconning at least.

I wouldn't say it heavily relies on the human thing though, you could easily completely remove or redub the three or four lines that reference it with no change to the actual flow of the film ("Grace says you have a secret" "I'm not wearing any underwear..."). About the only thing it contributes plot wise is it makes the Master decide he needs fully human eyes to open the Eye. Which is such an insane leap of logic to make anyway you'd hardly notice if it were removed (and why do Time Lords build their technology to open for humans?). The 13 lives thing though is Robert's entire motivation and is pretty esential to the piece.

Don't get me wrong, I really, really like the TV Movie for a lot of stuff (McGann, Roberts, McCoy, the TARDIS sets, its' suicidal inaccessability [they expected a prime-time American audience to follow that?!?]), but at the same time a lot of it was bollocks and is probably best not thought about... I was glad "The Next Doctor" canonised (for want of a better term) McGann, though.

Yep, lots to like in the Movie and its aged well in that lots of the things that seemed shocking or un-Who like at the time are pretty much commonplace every week now (for better and worse).

I did find it interesting after the picture of him was in Human Nature you still had some TV Movie haters going "Well, OK, there was a Doctor who looked like Paul McGann. But that doesn't make the Movie itself canon". Though now clips from it have been used as flashbacks twice it's sort of hard for anyone to claim that now (and nor should they, there's far worse stories and far bigger contradictions of the shows past, Genesis of the Daleks did far worse things on that score than a mere not contradicted by anything said prior however stupid it was half human claim).

Interestingly when they were preparing the Next Doctor montage they weren't sure if they had the rights to use clips from the film (similar uncertainty is why Roberts isn't in the voiceovers in in Utopia) and there was a contigency plan to grab footage of McGann from a BBC costume drama. What would that have done to canon I wonder?

That said, I do think a lot of this stuff (especially "sex versus looms") isn't actually all that important to the series besides providing it with remarkable longevity - the day any story goes out of its' way to sidetrack into that sort of thing is probably the day most viewers switch off.

Oh absolutely, it's entitely a fanish debate. A fun one between consenting adults and ripe pickings for books and audios aimed at them but for stuff that's aimed at the wider family audience it doesn't really have a place. The Doctor needs that bit of mystery he's got left about his past, the fact no two stories can even agree on something as simple as a definative reason as to why he left Gallifrey (to explore? On the run? Planning genocide against his favourite monsters?) is a good thing.

I also agree with Rob Sherman to a certain extent, mentions of regeneration should be kept to a minimum and it should never really be made the focus of a story (as in Undead or most of the 80's Master stuff) because all it does is emphasise that the hero is basically unkillable, which is a bugger for creating jeopardy.

The scene in the SJA show at least seems like it's going to feel natural rather than forced fannishness, a character who's met the Tennant version asks some confused questions about wtf is going on with his different look. I suppose RTD actually deserves credit for showing enough restraint to resist the other thing he's nearly done a few times when he was in charge and give the Doctor a speech explaining how he was once half human for a while with hilarious consequences.

The thing with VIDFire for me is that I've owned something like Tomb of the Cybermen for 18 years, so I've probably seen the better black and whites 20-30 times, it's just a bit weird suddenly seeing them looking so different and takes a bit of getting used to. I suspect once I've seen the VIDFired versions a few times it'll fade...

On the plus side, The Time Meddler couldn't be VIDfired as the print was to poor, so that one at least will always be as you remember it.

[Cliffjumper]

Ah, thought the half-human thing as more central than that, though I'll admit it's been a while since I paid attention to much past McCoy.

Whatever the thing's faults, I'm still very grateful for the thing - it put the show back out there and proved the concept could still really work (considering the reception to it, in a way it's amazing it took another nine years to get more, though obviously there were a lot of other factors involved), and whatever continuity flubs it had (and like you say, "Genesis" and "Deadly Assassin" had done worse, they just had the advantage of being reinforced by another 12-14 series... If there had been a 13-episode Universal/McGann series in 1997 converting/explaining the half-human thing as it went, people would be stuck with it) are nothing compared to what it could have been...

The fact a one-off made-for-the-American-market TV Movie largely gels with and respects the continuity of a then long-dead British series that had no more than a cult following in the US is an amazing thing, even if it basically sealed the thing's fate. Plus I'm fairly sure Hartnell was identified as human a couple of times and didn't argue about it...

I chose to interpret Borusa's desire for immortality as simply him being a mental, though I suppose you could say he's been denied a new cycle - you could maybe theorise that it's a facility avaliable for only the cream (apart from in times of emergency), or those whose lives are cut short in the line of duty, and that Borusa is simply a capable politician who lived a full life (though for this to work you'd have to assume there was some weird Gallifrey timeline where he doesn't crank through four regenerations in eight seasons... though only the Five Doctors one is referred to as such, IIRC - people have no problem with Pratt and Beevers, or Ainley and Tipple, being the same Master after all...).

The other argument/theory I've heard (though this was pre-"Utopia") is that the Ainley Master isn't biologically a Time Lord, he's Tremas possessed, and as such the Time Lords are somehow able to grant a regeneration cycle to the new body (this isn't faultless - there's the Time Lord recognition thing to overcome, plus IIRC the reason he survived miniaturisation in "Planet of Fire" was that he was a Time Lord). They obviously don't because Pertwee ****s him over, hence him having to again take over Bruce by force (the Cheetah People thing probably mutated him even further too... the weird eyes in the pre-title bit of the TVM really is one of the best accidental continuity references ever, isn't it?)... I suppose you could argue he was then given a new cycle for services rendered at some point, and regenerated into Jacobi (or was even exiled as Yana complete with brain wipe, which fits in with the High Council's Ravalox methods of ineptly covering themselves).

[inflatable dalek]

Whatever the thing's faults, I'm still very grateful for the thing - it put the show back out there and proved the concept could still really work (considering the reception to it, in a way it's amazing it took another nine years to get more, though obviously there were a lot of other factors involved), and whatever continuity flubs it had (and like you say, "Genesis" and "Deadly Assassin" had done worse, they just had the advantage of being reinforced by another 12-14 series... If there had been a 13-episode Universal/McGann series in 1997 converting/explaining the half-human thing as it went, people would be stuck with it) are nothing compared to what it could have been...

Yep. I even still think the basic story could have worked fine if they'd done what An Unearthly Child and Rose did and tell it from the humans point of view. God knows how any Americans (or even any Matt Smith aged kids) made the connection between the blue box flying through space and the cathedral in the opening scene. Great performance from McCoy, stunning début from McGann (honestly, excluding the ahrd to judge Troughton I don't think any of them appear so fully formed right of the bat, luckily for the people who had to write a 100 books off the back of the film...), fun ham from Roberts and capable support from the sidekicks.

It's just a shame the ending is such a mess really. Temporal orbit? Shouting alarm clock at someone tells them all they need to know about time space ship repair (that and the line about the dimensions through the door mean Grace goes insanely out of character for the last bit even when not possessed. I suppose you could also make the argument it's an unfortunate juxtaposition that in the first story the Doctor really asserts his heterosexuality the Master starts hugging and kissing young men, but otherwise a good solid pilot.

Even the "Cloaking device" bit doesn't bother me, even if it suggests the writer doesn't actually know what a cloaking device does.

The fact a one-off made-for-the-American-market TV Movie largely gels with and respects the continuity of a then long-dead British series that had no more than a cult following in the US is an amazing thing, even if it basically sealed the thing's fate. Plus I'm fairly sure Hartnell was identified as human a couple of times and didn't argue about it...

I do feel sorry for Segal in a way, he spent the best part of a decade trying to get it made, played a small part in killing of a fourth McCoy year and The Dark Dimension in the process threw himself into it juggling three competing and contradictory sets of bosses (the Beeb, Universal and Fox) and only has a failure and fan hate to show for it.

One thing I can't see happening sadly is McGann showing up again in the TV show, not so much because of any apathy towards him from fans (who are likely to want the set for the 50th Anniversary even if they hate some of them or they're dead. And can I say here and now, is there anyone less suited to playing the third Doctor in a special than Sean Pertwee? A great hardman nut actor but as far from a lisping queen as you can get) but because I can't see him being up for it.

The Big Finish stuff takes minimal effort (he can record an entire years worth in the time it would take to film one episode), otherwise I get the impression he's pretty much moved on and going to Cardiff and having to put on the costume again has little interest to him.

though only the Five Doctors one is referred to as such, IIRC - people have no problem with Pratt and Beevers, or Ainley and Tipple, being the same Master after all...).

There's definitely a line in Arc, "So friend, you too have regenerated" or somesuch. Can't recall there being one in Invasion but I've only seen it the once. Borusa being completely and utterly mad does neatly cover all the gaping flaws in his plan (setting monsters more dangerous than was used in the original game against the Doctors? Does he want them to win or not?) and his unexplained desire to change into black everytime he goes into his hidey hole but also makes him seem even more crap and rubbish.

I'd forgotten the idea Ainley's body wasn't a proper Time Lord and thus could be made one, but I've generally favoured that over the years. He's so biologically screwed up by the film he can basically do anything with little in the way of logic problems by that point. The opening Tripple voiceover is on Youtube and is well worth a listen to hear the Master with a Canadian accent.

(the Cheetah People thing probably mutated him even further too... the weird eyes in the pre-title bit of the TVM really is one of the best accidental continuity references ever, isn't it?)...

Yep, presumably it's supposed to be snake eyes representing the CGI thing (though as dialouge in the film is keen to emphasise proper Time Lords do have different eyes perhaps its another retcon and they're saying the Doctor's actually the odd one out?) but it's close enough to cat to work beautifully

.
I suppose you could argue he was then given a new cycle for services rendered at some point, and regenerated into Jacobi (or was even exiled as Yana complete with brain wipe, which fits in with the High Council's Ravalox methods of ineptly covering themselves).

Thinking about it whilst reading this: We know the Master fought in at least part of the Time War, and that Rassilon (who, unless you go with it being Fred Rassilon rather than the original Bob Rassilon did a good job of coming back from the dead looking like James Bond) was President for the end of the war as well. It does cast that bit where he lets the Master go in The Five Doctors seem more suspicious in retrospect, did the mad old bastard already have plans for him?

I wonder if its a case that, as long as they've got the Time Lords memories in the Matrix all they need to do is clone (or if you like, Loom) them a new body and stick the mind in there? The Master had been in the Matrix before so it's not impossible they had his brain print from that, post him complete atomisation in the film they just brought him back that way.