fembots [AGAIN]

[starlord]

I am glad Arcee and her sisters came out.There should be more.Screamer was mad after that baby decepticon died. There isn't enought enegron for them.She didn't want their kind to die because the lack of it. Starscream was so upset that he lead the attack on Sam and threw those fireballs at those sailors killing dozens of them. Screamer helped killed Prime and would have done so by herself without Megs.

[starlord]

Shouldn't there be more of them? Chromia should at least come out as being the best friend of Elite -one. She should at least know what happen to her.

[Clay]

Please don't start nearly identical threads in multiple forums within minutes of each other, yeah?

[Tramp]

Shouldn't there be more of them? Chromia should at least come out as being the best friend of Elite -one. She should at least know what happen to her.

There definitely should be more of them. I would love to see Elita-1 make her debut in the third movie.

[Halfshell]

I am glad Arcee and her sisters came out.

Lesbian Transformers. It's what the world's been waiting for.

[Summerhayes]

Lesbian Transformers. It's what the world's been waiting for.

But being robots, they're sort of all one gender. Any romance in transformers is basically just one being butch, the other being effeminate

[Tramp]

But being robots, they're sort of all one gender. Any romance in transformers is basically just one being butch, the other being effeminate

They were genderless only in Marvel.

[electro girl]

They were genderless only in Marvel.

And ROTF it would seem.

[Denyer]

And in every other continuity until explicitly proven otherwise, since whilst the chain of thought involved in seeing a new organic lifeform and thinking "hey, maybe they f*ck and make babies" isn't too outlandish that assessment doesn't hold up as well when the inferred participants you're fantasising over are made out of metal...

[Tramp]

And ROTF it would seem.

Nope. Rotf has at least three female Transformers: Arcee and her two sisters.

[Denyer]

ROTF has at least three characters referred to by English words we associate with female gender.

[Tramp]

And in every other continuity until explicitly proven otherwise, since whilst the chain of thought involved in seeing a new organic lifeform and thinking "hey, maybe they f*ck and make babies" isn't too outlandish that assessment doesn't hold up as well when the inferred participants you're fantasising over are made out of metal...

Being made of metals has nothing to do with it. Every continuity but Marvel has the Transformers as male and female, and some even show them married and having offspring. Transformers are made up of self-replicating nano-machine cells and have a form of DNA. They have a genetic code. They;re not simply "robots", but rather true life forms. They're organisms, not mere robots. IT doesn't matter of they were metal, silicon, crystals, carbon-based organics, etc. They're still living organisms, and in all continuities, except Marvel, they are explicitly stated to be male and female. Their being mechanoid life instead of cabon-based organic life is irrelevant.

[Tramp]

ROTF has at least three characters referred to by English words we associate with female gender.

Not that "we" associate as female, but that the Transformers themselves do as well.

Marvel is the only continuity which explicitly states flat out that Transformers are genderless. Every other continuity establishes them as male and female.

[Denyer]

Transformers are made up of self-replicating nano-machine cells and have a form of DNA.

Where explicitly declared in a given continuity.

They;re not simply "robots", but rather true life forms.

The only thing opposing machines being considered life is bigotry on the part of organic lifeforms.

Some of whom seem to have a curious fixation on making machine life very much like themselves as possible, and indeed drawing them in humanised and sexualised poses.

Every other continuity establishes them as male and female.

There's a list of continuities knocking around somewhere; it's been posted a good few times. Best of luck with that.

[Tramp]

Where explicitly declared in a given continuity.

In Marvel, G2, in Dreamwave, in movie continuity (both in the first movie itself and in the Special features disk by the Production designer),

The only thing opposing machines being considered life is bigotry on the part of organic lifeforms.

Some of whom seem to have a curious fixation on making machine life very much like themselves as possible, and indeed drawing them in humanised and sexualised poses.

No. In that Earth machines don't exhibit the necessary processes needed for life. They can't maintain homeostasis (i.e. internal stability), they aren't self-organized with a complex cellular structure, they can't respond to stimuli, they can't metabolize, they can't grow (i.e. maintain a higher rate of anabolism than catabolism), they can't adapt and evolve, they can't reproduce—they can't procreate. These are necessary functions for life. They are so vital, that without all of these, any potential organism or species would die. There is nothing "bigoted" about that.

Transformers, however, have exhibited all of these characteristics.

There's a list of continuities knocking around somewhere; it's been posted a good few times. Best of luck with that.

• Cartoon (including US, Japanese, BW-BM, and Universe): multiple females and males, even offspring.
  
  Marvel: No females; explicitly stated that Transformers are genderless
  
  Dreamwave: Males and females with most females taken during the Great Shutdown.
  
  IDW: Believed to be originally genderless until Jhiaxus' experiments in Cybertronian evolution during the reign of Nova Prime. By the time of Megatron: Origin, Transformers have evolved into male and female (multiples of each)
  
  RID: Doesn't explicitly state one way or the other.
  
  The Unicron Trilogy, males and females (multiples of each).
  
  Movie-verse: Male and female.
  
  Animated: Male and female.
  
  Timelines: Male and female.
  
  Shattered Glass: Male and female.

Of all of the existing canon Transformers continuities, only Marvel's explicitly maintains that Transformers are asexual and thus inherently genderless. One other doesn't say one way or the other, and all others explicitly show them (and specifically refer to them ) as male and female, a number of them showing them capable of having families and children.

[Clay]

No. In that Earth machines don't exhibit the necessary processes needed for life. They can't maintain homeostasis (i.e. internal stability), they aren't self-organized with a complex cellular structure, they can't respond to stimuli, they can't metabolize, they can't grow (i.e. maintain a higher rate of anabolism than catabolism), they can't adapt and evolve, they can't reproduce—they can't procreate. These are necessary functions for life. They are so vital, that without all of these, any potential organism or species would die. There is nothing "bigoted" about that.

Sure there is. What you're doing is taking the criteria used to define organic life here on Earth. The human race, as of yet, hasn't come across any lifeforms that don't fit that criteria, in part because of the criteria.

If you want to call the transformers alive, there's no need to try use a bunch of malarkey to shoehorn them into meeting the scientific criteria for life. Why, exactly, would a robot need to maintain homeostasis other than to fit into a pre-existing template of life that was meant to exclude it to begin with?

[Tramp]

Sure there is. What you're doing is taking the criteria used to define organic life here on Earth. The human race, as of yet, hasn't come across any lifeforms that don't fit that criteria, in part because of the criteria.

If you want to call the transformers alive, there's no need to try use a bunch of malarkey to shoehorn them into meeting the scientific criteria for life. Why, exactly, would a robot need to maintain homeostasis other than to fit into a pre-existing template of life that was meant to exclude it to begin with?

Canon shows them to exhibit all seven criteria. Even Marvel showed them capable of procreation through the asexual process of budding—a process of cellular division. It was also the continuity which first introduced us to Cybertronian cellular structure and their having DNA.

Secondly, that criteria is not limited to organic life, nor is it in the least bit "bigoted". Each is necessary because without them, life couldn't survive.

• 1. Without the ability to maintain homeostasis, an organism couldn't hold off entropy. It couldn't maintain its own equilibrium, it couldn't survive. It would die, quickly.
  
  2. Without a self-organized, complex cellular structure, an organism couldn't function. it's systems couldn't work in unison to maintain its metabolism or control the other necessary functions. It would die quickly.
  
  3. Without the ability to metabolize, it couldn't gain nourisnment or derive energy from the fuels it takes in. It couldn't even take in nutrients at all. It would die quickly.
  
  4. Without the ability to respond to stimulus, an organism couldn't find food or avoid predators. It would die quickly.
  
  5. Without the ability to grow, an organism's own metabolism would cause it to destroy itself through catabolic processes. It would die quickly.
  
  6. Without the ability to adapt and evolve, the organism couldn't survive in a changing environment. Any change in its surroundings would result in its extinction. It would die quickly.
  
  7. Without the ability to procreate (either sexually or asexually), an organism couldn't pass its genes down to the next generation. The species would die after a single generation.

That is why these criteria are so necessary. They are what give an organism and species the ability to live at all. It doesn't matter if it's carbon-based, silicon-based, crystalline, cybernetic, etc. Without exhibiting all of these criteria, an organism and (by extension) species could not survive. That is why these criteria separate life from non-life. It's not bigotry, it's survivability and viability of a species. Life begets life. Life is a process of homeostasis, metabolism, self-organization, growth, adaptation, response to ones environment, and reproduction. Anything that cannot do all of these things is not life. That is what separates organisms from objects. This isn't just organic life. This is for all life. This has been explicitly stated by biologists, Astrobiologists, and xenobiologists. Xenobiologists in particular are using these seven criteria to identify non Earth-like life forms, including non-carbon-based life.

[Zisteau]

I like to think that gender in transformers is akin to Earth-mode disguises and region specific speaking accents. Its just another way of adapting and relating to the habitat they're in. Aren't most female transformers Autobots? For the life of me I can't think of any female decepticons, who are less concerned with communicating with those they see as inferiors. The autobots also have most of the speech dialects, don't they?

(Going mostly by G1 cartoon, comic, and the recent live action films. I haven't seen a lot of the other cartoons.)

[Tramp]

I like to think that gender in transformers is akin to Earth-mode disguises and region specific speaking accents. Its just another way of adapting and relating to the habitat they're in. Aren't most female transformers Autobots? For the life of me I can't think of any female decepticons, who are less concerned with communicating with those they see as inferiors. The autobots also have most of the speech dialects, don't they?

(Going mostly by G1 cartoon, comic, and the recent live action films. I haven't seen a lot of the other cartoons.)

While there aren't as many among the Deceptiocns as among the Autobots, Female Decepticons do exist, even in G1 continuity. IN the manga version of Victory, the very first female Decepticons are introduced, namely Esmeryl (wife of Deathsaurus) and Lyzak (sister of Leozak).

Then there's also Howlback (one of the Cobalt Sentries), who is of the same type as Ravage except dark blue (and female, obviously), as well as Flipsides, Clio, and Crasher/Fracture.

Nightracer was introduced to G1 continuity through BotCon, as was Shadostriker, the sister of the female Autobot Roulette.

Then there's Flamewar, Strika/Nemesis Strika, Antagony, Blackarachnia (before switching to the Maximals) (BW), Manta Ray, Scylla.

In Cybertron we have Thunderblast.

Animated also brought us Strika, Blackarachnia, and Slipstream.

The movie-verse gave us Alice and Fracture.

And even the Shattered Glass reality gave us the "heroic Decepticon" Crasher.

Thus, there are actually quite a few female Decepticons, and these are only the named ones. There may not be as many as among the Autobots, but they do exist.

And, even in the G1 cartoon, being male and female is natural to the Transformers within their own society. It's not something they adopted from humans. They've always been male and female.

[inflatable dalek]

Nope. Rotf has at least three female Transformers: Arcee and her two sisters.

And there was one female character in both the Marvel and IDW continuities due to freakish misadventures despite the rest of the species being genderless. Proves nothing really. If anything from the film was going to back you up on that it'd be Jetfire talking about his dad. But it's never been male Transformers you're interested in is it?

IDW: Believed to be originally genderless until Jhiaxus' experiments in Cybertronian evolution during the reign of Nova Prime. By the time of Megatron: Origin, Transformers have evolved into male and female (multiples of each)

Blatantly shown not to be true by actually reading the comics where the other Autobots are shocked and surprised to find out what Arcee is and have to have it explained to them very slowly. They'd hardly need that if they were all now gendered would they? Or are you seriously suggesting they all becaue male without realising?

In Cybertron we have Thunderblast.

Probably a good idea not to remind people of that post.

I'd recommend everyone else go dig up the various other fembot threads we've had over the years for full and exact details of pretty much everything that's likely to be said here in order to save time and sanity. Plus you'll learn which of our Admins is Tramp's long lost twin brother.