[Karen Gillan has been unveiled as the next assistant in Doctor Who]

[Target]

.

[inflatable dalek]

You're right. As long as we ignore the fact that Tom Baker was so unemployable when he was cast he was working on a building site. And that 98.98% of all actors to play companions have been nobodies both before and after their time on the show.

The new girl looks cute and she did fine in a rather thankless role in the Pompeii episode last year. Plus her being ginger will I suspect please one of our regular posters. And though I haven't seen anything with him in it would be unfair to call Matt Smith a complete unknown, the guys had leading roles in some fairly high profile stuff over the last couple of years. He's certainly not far behind the same level of "fame" Tennant was when he was cast (been around the block a while and just on the cusp of going mainstream).

[angloconvoy]

Oh no the BBC wants an audience to justify the money they spend on the show. How awful. It would be much better if they'd just left it alone and never made any more. Same goes for all Transformers after G1, and every Godzilla movie after King of Monsters.


On the downside, she's a ginger. Although, being ginger makes her perfectly qualified for BBC teatime viewing, as she already has no soul.*


*Actually she's rather good looking. Bugger it.

[electro girl]

All we can do is wait and see wich I dont mind doing. I had heard rumours that the new assistant would be the girl who played Cassie in Skins.

[Cliffjumper]

I see the new assistant has been unveiled, the well known Karen Gillan …To go with the equally famous new doctor,:nonono: I can’t help but thinking that the BBC is trying to put off it’s loyal Doctor Who fans, and try to attract a new younger audience. I really hope this combo do better than they seem on paper!

Aww, I wanted to read the first post...

Never realised I could do that.

*Echoes various sentiments about previous levels of fame of, well, much of the regular cast over the past 45 years*

Who's rarely had enough money (or really the need) to drag someone famous in for a regular role - the exceptions being the big three casting decisions (first Doctor, first replacement, relaunch man) and a couple of companions (Langford, maybe Billie - although she was largely a retired pop star dabbling in the lads' mags at the time she was cast).

On-topic, she's lovely. I do hope she can act, but I'd be lying if I said it'd really bother me if she can't (I mean, neither Freema or Tate could act, and it didn't hurt the quality of the seasons they were... oh).

Downside is that once again the BBC have gone for the PR hype waaaay to early.

[Denyer]

her being ginger will I suspect please one of our regular posters

Yes.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/entertainment/8073734.stm
http://forums.superiorpics.com/ubbthrea ... ts/1559889
http://forums.superiorpics.com/ubbthrea ... cs/1568132

Not the most flattering pics ever, but studenty redhead with fondness for a wee dram gets two thumbs up from this direction.

[Jetfire]

I always loved Redheads, Brilliant news

[inflatable dalek]

Who's rarely had enough money (or really the need) to drag someone famous in for a regular role - the exceptions being the big three casting decisions (first Doctor, first replacement, relaunch man) and a couple of companions (Langford, maybe Billie - although she was largely a retired pop star dabbling in the lads' mags at the time she was cast).

Peter Davison? Every reference book claims Colin Baker was famous as the British JR but I've never been able to believe that. Even when ITV did a retrospective thing with clips and everything.

I've found most of the regulars since the show came back have been pretty much spot on casting (the problem with Martha being the scripts rather than Freema), Tate being the only one that hasn't really worked for me. A nice selction of people with varying degrees of prior fame and fresh faced newcomers.

Yes.

I didn't mean you, you're supposed to be above that sort of thing.

I watched City of Death with a friend who knows nothing about old Who last weekend (as it was hot warm and sunny, perfect City of Death weather). Up till Romana mentioned her age he thought she was supposed to be a genuine schoolgirl (in a piece of Saved By The Bell style slightly older casting) and was getting more and more concerned about how close she and the Doctor seemed to be getting.

In future I will be sure to quote all posts I reference just in case their sudden vanishing tries to make me look a bit odd.

EDIT:

Downside is that once again the BBC have gone for the PR hype waaaay to early.

It actually makes sense this time, filming can't be more than a couple of weeks off (it's usually early Summer isn't it? They might even have already started if the plan was to just carry straight on through from the last Tennant). Doing it now probably lets them throw a photoshot together that will then help keep the press interest lower whilst the actual shooting is going on. The thing is of course that they should have announced them both now, but hey ho.

[Cliffjumper]

Peter Davison?

Wasn't he, like, the third lead in All Creatures or something? Hardly a superstar, at any rate - about the same level as Pertwee or something, you'd probably have had to explain to people who he was rather than just going "Peter Davison".

Every reference book claims Colin Baker was famous as the British JR but I've never been able to believe that. Even when ITV did a retrospective thing with clips and everything.

Yeh, whenever Brothers (was it?) has come up in conversation with olders they've never even heard of it, let alone Colin Baker. IIRC that show ended a while before he became the Doctor as well... if he was all that famous he probably wouldn't have taken a fairly menial, bland role in Arc a year or so earlier (in fact, if he was a big name, I suspect he might not have landed the Doctor so soon after a guest role... that probably slipped past a lot of casual viewers).

I've found most of the regulars since the show came back have been pretty much spot on casting (the problem with Martha being the scripts rather than Freema), Tate being the only one that hasn't really worked for me. A nice selction of people with varying degrees of prior fame and fresh faced newcomers.

Personally I found Freema to be very irritating. Sure, Martha was probably the third-worst written companion of the lot (after Vicki and Mel), but she never did anything to help either. It's a nasty thing to say, but her Trisha Yates approach to drama was awful.

The biggest problem with Tate is she was allowed to play Tate (just as Eccleston was allowed to play Ecclestone, Kay allowed to play Kay and so forth - I tend to visualise the RTD casting as like the Extras bit with Chris Martin), and thus was not only a completely unlikeable character, but also totally impossible to take seriously. You can't get into stories when there's someone basically doing their own sketch show in a lead role - imagine if Nick Parsons had spent every scene in Fenric doing his Sale of the Century spiel.

Lessee...

Doctor 9: Badly cast, but with good reason
Doctor 10: Well cast
Rose: Well cast
Jack: Well cast, shame about some of the scripting, but John Barrowman can pull off all kids of crap (if not "The Kids Are All Right!"... But then John Hurt couldn't say that without looking like a cock)
Mickey: Well cast, after the first series Noel Clarke rises above the Scrappy Doo scripting brilliantly.
Mum Tyler: Badly cast. Lisping old tart. I don't think anyone could have fully salvaged such a bad character, but a lot of people would have been more likeable. Codhuri sounds like she's reading offscreen cue cards most of the time.
Martha: Badly cast
Donna: Badly cast

In future I will be sure to quote all posts I reference just in case their sudden vanishing tries to make me look a bit odd.

It i a bit of a pain when someone tries to sabotage an active topic simply because someoen doesn't agree with them over the casting of a supporting role in a CBBC drama, isn't it?

[inflatable dalek]

Wasn't he, like, the third lead in All Creatures or something? Hardly a superstar, at any rate - about the same level as Pertwee or something, you'd probably have had to explain to people who he was rather than just going "Peter Davison".

I think he'd still have been recognised by most people on sight even if they didn't automatically recognise the name, which is more than I think they'd have done with Pertwee as, IIRC, most of his notable pre-Who work had been on the radio. Had those two terrible sounding sitcoms Davison was doing during his time on Who started before he was cast in the role?

Mind, I've never agreed with the oft repeated fan complaint that he was "to famous" to play the Doctor and this hurt audience belief in the character and helped end the show (a comment that even popped up as "fact" on that BBC2 theme night where they thought showing the dullest episode of The Daleks would be a good way to end the evening). If nothing else it's rather unfair on everyone else who played the part. Such people have gone very quiet since the show came back succesfully with someone who's done actual Hollywood films and stuff in the title role though.

Personally I found Freema to be very irritating. Sure, Martha was probably the third-worst written companion of the lot (after Vicki and Mel), but she never did anything to help either. It's a nasty thing to say, but her Trisha Yates approach to drama was awful.

She did much better on Torchwood (even if she stayed true to form by having one of the regulars die horribly five minuets after she showed up) and in her first few episodes, it's the decision to make the character a love sick moron that really hurt her.

The biggest problem with Tate is she was allowed to play Tate

Thankfully having avoided her sketch show for the most part I don't know about that, but the problem I had with her was her performance was never as good as the part was written. A shame because otherwise the character would have been a nice antidote to some of the flaws with her predecessors (such as the bit in Planet of the Ood where it looks as if the Doctor's going to go into one of his "stupid apes!" rants about sweat factories only for her to tell him to STFU).

Doctor 9: Badly cast, but with good reason

Never had any real problems with him after his slightly ropey performance in Rose.

Doctor 10: Well cast

Oh yes. Can make the bad material work and with the good stuff can do extraordinary things. I think his departure is going to be hard for the show to get over.

Rose: Well cast

Yep, again she could make the weaker material work better than it should and the flaws in her more recent return were again more in the script than her performance.

Mickey: Well cast, after the first series Noel Clarke rises above the Scrappy Doo scripting brilliantly.

Plus he's apologised for being shit in his first episodes and put the blame for it on his own shoulders. Shame there was nothing for him to do last time he came back.

Mum Tyler: Badly cast. Lisping old tart. I don't think anyone could have fully salvaged such a bad character, but a lot of people would have been more likeable. Codhuri sounds like she's reading offscreen cue cards most of the time.

Again, never really had a problem with her either. Pete Tyler was pretty well bang on as well.

I can't recall anything Martha's family did, but at least that means they weren't giving offensively bad performances in their inconsequential roles. Donna's Mum was fine as well but the top honours in the supporting family casts have to go to Mr. Cribbins. It would be wrong to say that the death of the actor who played her Dad worked out best for the show but...well, it did.

EDIT: I suppose we can add Kate O'Mara to the list of famous actors in recurring roles even if she only managed one proper return appearance before the end. Peter Butterworth didn't do his first Carry On until just after he played the Monk did he (plus unlike the Rani I don't think he was intended to be a recurring foe, they just brought him back because he worked out so well)?

[Heinrad]

Loving the redhead........

[Halfshell]

Who's up for a "hilarious" in-joke about her character having Italian ancestry then?

[Cliffjumper]

I dunno, won't that **** Davies be gone by then? Not that Steven Moffat's been especially good beyond his first story, anyway... Hopefully once RTD has gone it'll turn out that "Catchphrases in the Library" was written to see if anyone would notice, and isn't a real indication of the man's suitability, and the Doctor was meant to be a total cock in "Mawkish Girl in the Fireplace".

It's quite worrying, actually, that two out of four of Moffat's scripts to date - while not ouright bad - do contain some of the most irritating factors from the revival... Mind, maybe Moffat will let other people write more than three or four episodes a year and it won't matter.

[Cliffjumper]

I think he'd still have been recognised by most people on sight even if they didn't automatically recognise the name, which is more than I think they'd have done with Pertwee as, IIRC, most of his notable pre-Who work had been on the radio. Had those two terrible sounding sitcoms Davison was doing during his time on Who started before he was cast in the role?

Recognising someone's face and them being outright famous are two different things - many, many people would recognise the faces of, say, the cast of Coronation Street, but (offhand, haven't watched for years, so apologies if Brad Pitt's landed a role) I'd hardly describe any of them as big names.

IIRC the sitcoms were filmed in the Doctor Who off-seasons... The notion of TV big-name stars is really only something ITV did until a few years ago - TV dramas at the time weren't often star vehicles for Amanda Burton or Robson Greene.

Never had any real problems with him after his slightly ropey performance in Rose.

He has the range of a packaging peanut.

Oh yes. Can make the bad material work and with the good stuff can do extraordinary things. I think his departure is going to be hard for the show to get over.

The biggest testament to Tennant is that, as scripted, the 10th Doctor is a piece of shit. Not intentionally - he's just a loud-mouthed, boasting, name-dropping, patronising wanker who spouts catchphrases. And yet Tennant has made the character likeable, somehow. I agree that without wanting to judge Jones' quality ahead of time, the show could be in for a tricky time unless Moffat sorts out the big problems that were papered over by having such a good lead.

It would be wrong to say that the death of the actor who played her Dad worked out best for the show but...well, it did.

Personally I thought Cribbins was wasted in a small peripheral role - I kept hoping the character would fold into the plot a bit more.

EDIT: I suppose we can add Kate O'Mara to the list of famous actors in recurring roles even if she only managed one proper return appearance before the end.

Hell yeah, 6/8 episodes across three seasons makes her a bonafide returning regular, rather than just a guest-star who came back for another show.

[Halfshell]

I dunno, won't that **** Davies be gone by then? Not that Steven Moffat's been especially good beyond his first story, anyway... Hopefully once RTD has gone it'll turn out that "Catchphrases in the Library" was written to see if anyone would notice, and isn't a real indication of the man's suitability, and the Doctor was meant to be a total cock in "Mawkish Girl in the Fireplace".

It's quite worrying, actually, that two out of four of Moffat's scripts to date - while not ouright bad - do contain some of the most irritating factors from the revival... Mind, maybe Moffat will let other people write more than three or four episodes a year and it won't matter.

I suppose there's the possibility that the writing "team" worked out the plot of each, then said "Well, Moffat's wrote the last stories with those elements in, so let's give them to him". A bit like if you were in the 60s and given an outline for a sprawling revenge western for Clint Eastwood you'd automatically want to attach Leone to it.

Not that I've got anything against Moff's Who stuff, I think they're all fine pieces. It's just that once somebody points out that it's the same plot elements remixed it's hard to see anything else. A bit like noticing Don't Upset The Rhythm by the Noisettes is eerily reminiscent of the theme tune to Dogtanian.

But yeah, definitely be interesting to see exactly how active a role he takes in writing episodes. And let's face it, his recurring elements are preferable to contrived celebrity cameos, moronic chavs and the ****ing slitheen.

[inflatable dalek]

I dunno, won't that **** Davies be gone by then? Not that Steven Moffat's been especially good beyond his first story, anyway... Hopefully once RTD has gone it'll turn out that "Catchphrases in the Library" was written to see if anyone would notice, and isn't a real indication of the man's suitability, and the Doctor was meant to be a total cock in "Mawkish Girl in the Fireplace".

There's a rather lovely quote from a interview he did with Deathray magazine someone is using as a sig quote on OG I'll have to cut'n'paste next time I see it where he expresses puzzlement at people cheering at his arrival meaning the end of the RTDisms they don't like (overuse of the sonic screwdriver being one) when he regards his scripts have had more of them in than any others.

The biggest testament to Tennant is that, as scripted, the 10th Doctor is a piece of shit. Not intentionally - he's just a loud-mouthed, boasting, name-dropping, patronising wanker who spouts catchphrases. And yet Tennant has made the character likeable, somehow. I agree that without wanting to judge Jones' quality ahead of time, the show could be in for a tricky time unless Moffat sorts out the big problems that were papered over by having such a good lead.

I think it's telling that even though it's likely bollocks the rumour that the beeb want to launch a series of Who films with Tennant staring to run alongside the show seem very plausible.

Personally I thought Cribbins was wasted in a small peripheral role - I kept hoping the character would fold into the plot a bit more.

SPOILER! (select to read)

Already confirmed (with an anouncement on BBC Breakfast no less, which really shows some desperation for stories) he'll be the full on companion for Tennant's last two episodes. And yes, I know what that means in terms of who else might show up.

Hell yeah, 6/8 episodes across three seasons makes her a bonafide returning regular, rather than just a guest-star who came back for another show.

But the point is the character was created as a returning regular- even if she didn't work out as such- and they still cast a relatively "Big Name". Though some of the logic behind the Rani still escapes me, "We've killed the Master at last, so lets create a new super foe for the Doctor to replace him... and then just bring the Master back and put him in the same script even though they're basically the same character and there's nothing for him to do except act a bit odd even by his standards".

Apparently Saward was so annoyed at being told to bring Ainley back after his initial three year contract expired that he deliberately cut the line explaining why he isn't a pile of ash in protest at how stupid he thought the whole thing was (but then, Saward having sissy hissing fits over everything was well on its way to becoming a daily ocurance at that point).

I suppose there's the possibility that the writing "team" worked out the plot of each, then said "Well, Moffat's wrote the last stories with those elements in, so let's give them to him". A bit like if you were in the 60s and given an outline for a sprawling revenge western for Clint Eastwood you'd automatically want to attach Leone to it.

After his first story the Moff was apparently allowed to do pretty much whatever he liked. Other than his scripts there's only one other episode (the name of which escapes me, I want to say The Lazarus Experiment but that would be insane if so) RTD didn't extensively rewrite for the final draft. Effectively part of the reason he showed up every year was because him being regarded as a safe pair of hands meant RTD knew there'd be one less script for him to have to work on and that'd give him breathing space. Famously he had no idea what was going to be in the library scripts until he read them for the first time.

If I were a cynic I'd think it's telling the beeb have backed the guy RTD felt he didn't have to rewrite as the new show runner and it's a fairly clear sign they're desperate to make sure the show carries on much the same as it is now because... well why wouldn't they when it's been so successful. Hopefully everyone involved will rise above that or there could be a Stargate level of stagnation about the show because even the stuff in RTD's format which works- which to be fair was most of it- has run its course by this point.

[Halfshell]

Apparently Saward was so annoyed at being told to bring Ainley back after his initial three year contract expired that he deliberately cut the line explaining why he isn't a pile of ash in protest at how stupid he thought the whole thing was

So the trope is his fault? Seriously, it's almost a joke by now. The Master dies with a massive level of finality, then just randomly turns up again with no explanation. He's used up all his regenerations, been burnt to a crisp, executed by the Daleks, eaten by the heart of the TARDIS, erased from time/space and "played" by the guy from Human Traffic. The mother****er's worse than an Optimus.

[inflatable dalek]

It pretty much does kick into gear when Saward joined the show with the Master seemingly being killed when he's trapped in his collapsing false reality (full explanation when he does show up again: "So you escaped from Castrovalva!"), though obviously with all but three of Ainley's turns being under Saward's regime that's not so surprising.

I guess Deadly Assasin would be the very earliest example, and a especially good one as the Time Lords declare him dead twice in the space of an episode. With the second "falling into a bottomless pit next to a honking great black hole as he reaches the point of final death" seeming especially definitive.

[Halfshell]

(full explanation when he does show up again: "So you escaped from Castrovalva!")

That was the other one! Plus of course him being stranded on a distant planet without a functioning TARDIS in Time-Flight (was there an explanation for how he escaped that when he cropped up in Planet of Fire?)

It does all add up to the fact that they don't even need to find some technobabble explanation for when they inevitably bring him back again. "I'm the Master, I always survive" would cover it fine.

[inflatable dalek]

That was the other one! Plus of course him being stranded on a distant planet without a functioning TARDIS in Time-Flight (was there an explanation for how he escaped that when he cropped up in Planet of Fire?)

There's actually another couple of Master appearances in between, for the life of me I can't remember if it gets covered in his first post Time Flight showing or not. There's yet more amazing latex disguises and cunning pseudonym credits for you to enjoy.

The books did come up with the idea he's basically literally the anti-Doctor, as long as there's one the other will carry on. Which is as good a way of dealing with it as any. The irony is if Roger Delgardo hadn't died his next appearance in the show would have killed the character for good.