Originally posted by Blaster *Cue people saying that's not true and calling me an idiot subtley trying to insult my intelligence*
You rang?
As one of Dreamwave's stauncher critics (on the board, anyway), I figure I should do the appropriate thing and justify my position. Simply, I do not compare their books to the Marvel TF series or any other comics - I examine them objectively for literary value, and most times, there isn't much. I read the Marvel books the same way the first time through, and I found that a lot of those were lacking as much or more. The positive literary aspects that certain issues of the Marvel series had (style, characterization, and especially originality), the Dreamwave series usually lack. That's why they get criticism: not because they aren't Marvel, but because they don't score well on the important stuff.
As I've said before, I still buy, read, and even enjoy the Dreamwave stuff. But then, I enjoyed I, Robot Master and Monstercon From Mars. Not exactly for the same reason, but in both cases it boils down to the idea that it's fun if you don't think about it too much. However, I'm still upset by the Dreamwave books; this design casts a tone of childishness upon the license, and we can't have that if Transformers are to survive the 80's nostalgia apocolypse.
Flec's selling a lot of RID, Armada, and Energon, and a few G1 toys. 'S all I'm sayin'. The TFArchive RPG - "the most popular part of the site[!]" - Skywarp. Darn tootin'.
Now I know! It's not Lee's poor art, it's not the stories which drag very slow, it's the lack of those six letters on the cover makes me think that TF comics series from 80's was better.
Originally posted by Blaster Right, I missed where this affected me.
it doesn't. i'm just stating the reasons that i'm probably going to stop buying the books. as i said, if you want to buy them. that's your choice. more power to you. i personally think they're ****.
I honestly think the fact it doesn't have Marvel written in the top left corner is the reason some people don't like these comics. I'd bet almost anything if it was Marvel producing this everyone would love it to bits.
it's not that it's not marvel. it's that its ****. nuff said.
The marvel US series was up and down. The first 20 and last 22 of the series were far better than the rest. The middle 40 were no better or worse than what Dreamwave has produced and just as childish. Well 40-50 or there abouts was better than the rest of the middle run I suspose.
The Simon Furman Uk stories involving Galvatron were the masterpeices of G1 Transformers as far as I'm concerned.
Dreamwave isn't that bad at the comics. Thet are just instantly forgettable and far to slowly paces to not seam worth the money.
I feel Pat Lee is a really good artist. Not for capturing emotion or story flow, but making pannels look good. the 1st series but 1 major flaw, and that is it stretched to little on to to much.
Bastards. I go away for ten minutes [okay, a couple of weeks] and you all start, erm, being bastardy.
On-topic... The company making it is neither here nor there... BUT if Marvel were making it, it'd probably be better, as they have a better pool of writers. Dreamwave don't have a pool of writers. They have a knob-jockey so in love with himself he can't see his own total inability to draw anything [Q: How would Pat Lee commit suicude? A: Jump off his ego... A penny to anyone who can name who the joke originally referred to...], a few of his stooges, one man who ran out of steam near-on ten years ago, and his dog Chris. Marvel quite simply wouldn't make a book like that as they had their fingers badly burnt over the last artist-centred set of books they did [Heroes Reborn], and tend to let little tiny details like scripting, plot and characters [except Geoff Johns, but then the guy sleeps with his mother...] get in the way of laminated fan-boy cum magnets. [Divergence = to save us a lot of off-topic palaver, I'm not saying Marvel have the best writers full-stop on their books, just a better one than Dreamwave - even Morrison's weakest issue of New X-Men to date has had more wit, verve and imagination than DW's entire TF output to date[/Divergence]...
In short, my problems with the DW TF output so far: -
G1, Vol. 1: Well, I've been through them a lot, and follow the "Writings" link in my sig if you haven't been to one of the millions of places I've posted it until people gave me money to stop. In short, little plot [and what there was could have been Swiss cheese], abysmal pacing, variable art, no imagination, and much too much ridiculous posturng [the fireman] and generally crappy characterisation [not that the characters weren't simply like they'd been before, Mark Millar's shown how superbly new angles can be done... it's more that it was a massive rip-off of the X-Men, Star Wars and several other things, and that there were only three characters in the thing, and all three were fairly badly done...].
Armada: I'll break this down into arcs.
1-5: A fair scene setter, alebit with some massive storytelling deficiencies and lacings of terrible dialogue once we get to Earth.
6-7: Definitive proof Pat Lee simply can't draw very well at all... The best bits are the backgrounds, and they're done by someone else. Also proof [for those who missed Alignment...] that Furman isn't much cop anymore. Still, at least the bad reception got "superstar" Ptwat to **** off back to G1...
8-11: Great build up, let down by a diabolical conclusion. Guido's the best TF artist DW have let out yet, and he works much better on Armada than the overcomplicated, cramped TF:WW.
12-13: Wow, the first issue was good. Then the whole plotline gets shafted [they just shoot down Megatron's satellite? **** OFF!] as there's a money-spinning crossover coming in.
The War Within: Nice designs, but overcomplicated art, repetitive, slow storyline [how many bloody years did Op and Megs spend slugging each other under Cybertron while soul-searching?]... Too many fanboy-pleasing touches, not enough actual content.
G1 Vol 2: I've read 1, 3 & 4... I generally try to hold back reviewing comic storylines I have gaps in, and wondered if my low view of #3 was due to missing an issue making the thing a bit choppy. But as the "transition" between 3 & 4 was more choppy than Bruce Lee, I think I won't be far off the mark... the fanboy references in TF:WW were annoyances. Here, they're the ENTIRE ****ING PLOT. Every single page is designed to make some anorak somewhere go "ooooh, isn't that clever?", carefully hoarding trivia about Meister [incidentally, I always though it was Meistar...? Meister sounds like a Bond villain. A Roger Moore Bond villain.] and sets of Wreckers [rendered null and void by the fact that Magnus was never a member, and that Impactor was the only one of the original set anyone really gave a toss about...]... The art veers from flabby, inflatable designs to ones like Hot Rod, who seems so stiff and rigid you expect him to only be able to move at the elbow.
MTMTE: Is... interesting, though I don't think I'll read any of them twice... Most of the profiles are generally either asinine or rephrased Marvel ones, and the ones for the Micros would be great, if Graham Thomson hadn't already written better ones. And some of the art is atrocious... Hubcap's is the only one so far [I'm on #4] that made me think "wow, that's great"... As I'm in a nice mood, I won't mention the Decepticon Micromaster Gangsta Patrol... Oooops.
Overall, I'd be more pissed off if Marvel were putting out this **** than if DW were, as I have a very high opinion of the company... but then Marvel wouldn't put out a book like this.
Everything you say is nice, Cliff, really, but i think the main problem is that little box on the cover that says 'DW' with a man hloding his hand out in a manner similar to that of a stranger offering candy. If, say, that DW was replaced by a big M, then everything would be much better.
Thats my only reason for criticisng DW's output really.
That and the fact the DW Vol 1 set fire to my childhood dreams in way i previusly thought only George Lucas was capable of...
Originally posted by Best First ...That and the fact the DW Vol 1 set fire to my childhood dreams in way i previusly thought only George Lucas was capable of...
Hmm. Out of curiousity - did you like Episode one?
as ive said previously i have nothing against the generation1 series... i like it but it only average at most... hopefully it will pick up when pat gets off and don joins...
Originally posted by Blaster I honestly think the fact it doesn't have Marvel written in the top left corner is the reason some people don't like these comics. I'd bet almost anything if it was Marvel producing this everyone would love it to bits.
*Cue people saying that's not true and calling me an idiot subtley trying to insult my intelligence*
I'll skip the subtlety...
If Marvel had produced G1 Vol. 1, I'd have been considerably more upset than was the case. I don't sanctify their comic output, but I would expect them to be able to muster a decent creative team for one of the most active fan/nostalgia movements of recent years.
Conversely, I like TWW. I'm worried that Don isn't going to be handling all of the art chores, but art isn't that big an issue for me unless it interferes with the story. And yes, DW is working at a huge disadvantage; it has to come up with something vaguely original after over ten years of TF development by official and unofficial sources.
Marvel US was distinctly variable, the extra UK material being required (IMO) to elevate it consistently above the woefully episodic cartoon. It helps, again, that a decade of supplementary material cushions the worse of the storylines.
A question... When Runabout (or is is Runamuck) blasts the hole through Sandstorm...
Surely a better idea would have been to blast the hole through Prime instead?
Aside from the whole fact that his appearance was a) bloody convenient and b) a tad unexplained to say the least c) made all the more stupid considering he has no idea of the blatent danger in the sewers, despite having shown he has enough know how to ambush the greatest leader the Autobots have ever seen...
anyway...
Must try harder?
How ****ing stupid do you think we are DW? We are not all fanboy muppets!
I demand the a big M in the top corner.
If anybody would like to defend some of DW's more dodgy content, you know where to find me. Hiding in the sewers, just incase a rebel ex leader is using them as a means to escape his prison and link up with a resistance movement. Even if Prime doesn't come through, I love it down there anyway. Cause I know it to be safe.
I honestly wonder if it's just a case of "you can never go home again" and people who grew up reading the old run of comics have built them up to be more than they are and tend to just forget the bad issues.
The Dreamwave series are still in their fledgling stages and it's not like the first 36 issues of the original comic that I've read are really any better.
you know i got nothing against the DW series at all... well maybe one thing... and thats the way Optimus is kinda of drawen... now don't get me wrong i think he is drawn very well.. its just IMO i really don't dig the white window things on his chest.. i kinda of liked it better when its just flush with the rest of his body.. but other then that i like it...
Originally posted by Sir Auros I honestly wonder if it's just a case of "you can never go home again" and people who grew up reading the old run of comics have built them up to be more than they are and tend to just forget the bad issues.
The Dreamwave series are still in their fledgling stages and it's not like the first 36 issues of the original comic that I've read are really any better.
I haven't read them when I was growing up, I read them last year. And of course Marvel series caused that my expectations for DW one are quite high.
I don't say they suck, but they're so far inferior. Art is weak. Lee sure can draw humans, but he can't Transformers. I liked Delbo more.
I dunno if it's just the way comics are made nowadays, but there's very little to read, you don't have much narration, I don't want to admire Lee's handwork (cause there ain't much to admire), I wanna read and I don't get enough of it.
Among first 36 issues of Marvel series sure there were some very average stuff, AND some bad stuff. But there were also very good ones. DW so far was average at most.
I say, leave the minis, make an ongoing, get new artist (he don't need even to be outside from DW, it can be Guidi or Raiz, or even Figueroa), new writer if that's the best Mick can do, and give us more to read instead of those neccesary cameos and references.
In Marvel series I liked short stories, let DW show in ongoing series (if there will be one) that they can do it, too, don't show only big multi-part stories, which so far also were a bit screwed up, cause those who six issues from vol1 could have been made into 2 or 3.
Best First, yeah, I was very excited about new comics too, and it's great they're here, but I can expect it to be better than this, can't I?
-Okay, the bomb's dropped. Life goes on. No amount of sulking or worrying changes that. We've got our own lives to live. In that regard, in five minutes time, I am using the autopilot on the Midnight Runner and taking it down the pub. If I go on my own, I go on my own.
-Well. Wait up, you horrible English git. While I'm around, you don't have to go anywhere on your own.
And, one by one, the others follow.
And, one by one, they begin to smile.
Far too many comics opt for cinematic plots and animation epic art these days, we should be greatful we have Transformers back, but there is that something special lacking. A bit more stuff happening in the issues wouldnt be too much to ask. And please keep the writer of Dreamwave G1 Volume 1 off Transformers! Megatron cursing damn doesnt come off right i hated Superions death and Grimlocks defection. Brad Micks done a okay job, but i'd like to hear more G1 cartoon like dialogue such as 'leeping lubricants'(or whatever), hes a fan alright but hes a Beast era fan. Making him write the Beast wars special would be better.
I'm slowly coming round to Dreamwave. With practice they're starting to get better. War Within was good (if a little light on the dialogue) and G1 Vol 2 is vastly superior to the first volume. Armada has taken a long time to get going but its now an entertaining read. Raiz and Figureo are great artists, and Dreamwave should also be commended for getting Furman back on board. Hopefully things will continue to improve....
whats happened to raiz and guidi? are they working on other dw books or just not doing anything...... i agree with what cliffy said about how all marvel writing isnt necessarily good but they do have a much larger choice of talent to chose from. whose takin over energon when don moves onto the g1 series?
i think a problem with like the brad mick writing is that hes a fan, i know it may sound weird but thats the problem, if i was given the chance to write a tf comic then i admit i'd do the same as him, put in lil cameos and so on.... so the answer to the problem, get in a writer who isnt a fan bring a good writer in get him to back read tf stuff.... marvel comics, fan fics so on so that he understands the characters and so on. then he wouldnt put in these little cheap cameos and referances because hes not a fan and doesnt care bout em
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