The Kennedy Assasination.

Post by **inflatable dalek** » Wed Oct 16, 2013 8:11 am

Of course, it's not just Doctor Who that celebrates it's 50th birthday this year, it's also the anniversary of the death of everyone's favourite initial based name American President.

So, what do you people think then? One lone madman with a gun that the world has built up a mystique about because it's more comforting to think something like that could be properly planned by those in charge rather than just random horrible chance? Or was everyone from the CIA to the KGB through Elvis in on it?

As part of my rewatch of that show I've just seen the "Feature Length" episode that opened the last season of Quantum Leap (Bloody and hell, what have they done to the theme tune?), which oddly was the centrepiece of BBC 2's coverage of the 30th anniversary.

It did make me think there's probably a very interesting Big film to be made about Oswald himself rather than just looking at it from Kennedy's blood splattered POV, in the twenty years since I last saw it I'd forgotten all about the things like defecting to Russia and completely failing to assassinate that general.

Mind, it would have to be better than this was, a very confused episode on many levels. On the one hand, you've got the (fairly fresh at the time) desire to avoid all the conspiracy stuff and portray Oswald as just an ordinary guy who was nothing special. But on the other, just so they can get an hour and a half out of it he suddenly has enough mental super powers to influence Sam and eventually take control of him. That's Sam Becket, who once wrestled the Devil and won. So by default, within the show's Universe, Oswald is an extraordinary guy who is very special. So, what is the episode actually trying to say?

The ending caused howls of anguish round my house when it went out as well, if Sam had just lept into that bloody bodyguard in the first place, the episode could have been just 30 seconds long. And whilst the twist that Jackie Kennedy died in the "Real" history is nice, it does leave you slightly confused as to why "God" wanted JFK himself to stay dead. And don't get me started on the dating of the 1999 stuff being all mixed up (it's before the September setting of The One Where Same And Al Swap Places, but they talk about the time they swapped places... arhgh).

Nice shameless Gushi cameo though.

Has anyone actually sat through the Stone film? It fully embraces (the now fairly fully discredited IIRC, or at least it's been firmly proven there were no other shooters than Oswald) conspiracy side of things doesn't it?

Summerhayes · Post by **Summerhayes** » Wed Oct 16, 2013 8:43 am

It was Kennedy himself wasn't it? After going back in time? And all they wanted was a curry...

All jokes aside, I think I was one generation too late to care about JFK. It was before my mum was born even. I've got Diana and 9/11 to make conspiracy theories about!

Although my ex girlfriend's cousin did get one of these which even I can see is in poor taste.

Post by **inflatable dalek** » Wed Oct 16, 2013 9:14 am

Summerhayes wrote:It was Kennedy himself wasn't it? After going back in time? And all they wanted was a curry...

I'm always amazed how well Red Dwarf pulled that off (especially compared to the Leap episode's cheerful using of the original cini-film).

All jokes aside, I think I was one generation too late to care about JFK. It was before my mum was born even. I've got Diana and 9/11 to make conspiracy theories about!

Well obviously Diana caused 9/11. By throwing Maddie McCann into the two towers (not Chris Lee's Two Towers).

Although my ex girlfriend's cousin did get one of these which even I can see is in poor taste.

If only it came with a Texas Book Depository play set.

The PS3 KILLeR · Post by **The PS3 KILLeR** » Wed Oct 16, 2013 1:34 pm

inflatable dalek wrote:So, what do you people think then? One lone madman with a gun that the world has built up a mystique about because it's more comforting to think something like that could be properly planned by those in charge rather than just random horrible chance? Or was everyone from the CIA to the KGB through Elvis in on it?

Wait for it........... Space Nazis!:laugh:

...I'm just... I'm just gonna see myself out now...

Cyberstrike nTo · Post by **Cyberstrike nTo** » Wed Oct 16, 2013 2:12 pm

It was Oswald and Oswald alone that killed JFK.

angloconvoy · Post by **angloconvoy** » Wed Oct 16, 2013 2:34 pm

inflatable dalek wrote: If only it came with a Texas Book Depository play set.

That comment alone made this thread worth reading.

Conspiracies do happen. Lone mentalists also happen. Oswald and Oswald alone did the killing. There's even this whole branch of science called physics that explains how it happened. Did other people help to plan and push? Well, maybe. JFK had enemies, every president does.
Did the Queen order Diana gone? Well, I'd have more respect for her if she did, in a way. She's the Queen, and here's this upstart shaming her and her family and gaining public support? Any king or queen worth their salt would have that spanner taken out of the works. The truth is probably way more depressingly mundane (nobby photographers chasing a mentally unstable celeb).

Cyberstrike nTo · Post by **Cyberstrike nTo** » Wed Oct 16, 2013 7:10 pm

angloconvoy wrote:That comment alone made this thread worth reading.

Conspiracies do happen. Lone mentalists also happen. Oswald and Oswald alone did the killing. There's even this whole branch of science called physics that explains how it happened. Did other people help to plan and push? Well, maybe. JFK had enemies, every president does.

My problem with the conspiracies around JFK is that there were/are WAY too many people and/or groups (like the CIA, the KGB, KKK, every right-wing multi-millioniare nutballs, etc) involved for me to believe too keep it a secert.

Rack 'n Ruin · Post by **Rack 'n Ruin** » Wed Oct 16, 2013 8:23 pm

Daaaaaaamn. I didn't even know Karl Kennedy had died.

Skyquake87 · Post by **Skyquake87** » Wed Oct 16, 2013 9:06 pm

I think it was Professor Plum in the library with the lead piping.

Heinrad · Post by **Heinrad** » Wed Oct 16, 2013 10:02 pm

In all honesty, I don't know. For all we know, it may just have been a weird confluence of events(nice public place, target in an open car), and either Oswald or the CIA/KGB/Mafia/whoever the hell it was got off the first shot. If the sniper team on the grassy knoll was using a suppressor, the only audible shots would have come from the depository, and by the time the Warren commission looks into it, they've got one bullet that has to be pinged around the inside of the car like a cue ball.

My money's on this reporter the Master brainwashed and dumped in Dallas on Nov. 22. Geez, been a long time since I read that book..........

Cliffjumper · Post by **Cliffjumper** » Wed Oct 16, 2013 11:16 pm

Summerhayes wrote:It was Kennedy himself wasn't it? After going back in time? And all they wanted was a curry...

"Shoot the Pres? Me, who didn't even know who the **** he was ten minutes ago and am a complete narcissist who cares about no-one else? Why doesn't Kryten just use his lack of morals, a big plot point two scenes ago but now an inconvenience to the oh-so-funny ending Doug Naylor blatantly built the pitch around?"

I'm ambivalent about whether there was much to the JFK assassination; I'm more annoyed that it's provided so much sub-par grist for popular culture.

Post by **Clay** » Thu Oct 17, 2013 12:02 am

It's perfectly plausible that Oswald acted alone, but the fact that he himself was killed days later is certainly rocket fuel for the conspiracy fires. Not that conspiracy theorists need encouraging...

Off topic, but my favorite fake* conspiracy theory is that the CIA invented dinosaurs to discourage time travel.

*Or is it?

Post by **inflatable dalek** » Thu Oct 17, 2013 7:14 am

Cliffjumper wrote:"Shoot the Pres? Me, who didn't even know who the **** he was ten minutes ago and am a complete narcissist who cares about no-one else? Why doesn't Kryten just use his lack of morals, a big plot point two scenes ago but now an inconvenience to the oh-so-funny ending Doug Naylor blatantly built the pitch around?"

Don't forget the ending ignores the whole "Killing your past self just cancels itself out" thing that was a huge part of the start of the episode. JFK should have instantly come back to life with a car that was inexplicably bigger on the inside based on that form.

For me with Kennedy and Diana, if the authorities had wanted them dead, they could have done it much more smoother and neater than that by slipping something in their coffee to make it look like a heart attack. You don't need elaborate schemes to kill people when you're in with their security.

I mean, it's nearly as ludicrous as that old David Icke claim that Jimmy Saville was a super-paedophile who got away with it for decades alongside other BBC stars.

The PS3 KILLeR · Post by **The PS3 KILLeR** » Thu Oct 17, 2013 8:16 am

I wrote a paper on this my senior year in high school, it's been a few years but I do remember this.
Oswald had Soviet ties, some say he was a double agent, and a theory that's out there is the government wanted them both gone. Even back then wouldn't some kind of poison show up in his system? That can be easily traced once you find the source and the president always has eyes on him if he knows it or not, so that's not as subtle as you might think.

Think of it this way you have a mad man on your payroll who knows too much about your operations in a hostile country and a president who is cracking down on a lot of the shady things the government was doing at the time. Why not hire that mad man to kill the president tell him he gets away clean and then turn him in to cover all bases?

Not saying I believe it but it's the most realistic theory I've seen besides him acting alone.

angloconvoy · Post by **angloconvoy** » Thu Oct 17, 2013 8:25 am

Heinrad wrote: If the sniper team on the grassy knoll was using a suppressor, the only audible shots would have come from the depository,

Suppressors are actually to disguise direction, it's not like in the movies.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FFY0aHftVHg

The PS3 KILLeR · Post by **The PS3 KILLeR** » Thu Oct 17, 2013 8:29 am

angloconvoy wrote:Suppressors are actually to disguise direction, it's not like in the movies.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FFY0aHftVHg

Yes! Hollywood and Call of Duty gets it all wrong. Real suppressors don't sound like a "wet fart" as Woody's gamertag once said. They are actually still pretty loud and you'll know when someone is using one. They are just designed to mask sound not completely hide it.

Cliffjumper · Post by **Cliffjumper** » Thu Oct 17, 2013 10:44 am

inflatable dalek wrote:For me with Kennedy and Diana, if the authorities had wanted them dead, they could have done it much more smoother and neater than that by slipping something in their coffee to make it look like a heart attack. You don't need elaborate schemes to kill people when you're in with their security.

Mmmm, Diana especially fails Occam's Razor incredibly badly. I wheel this out on a semi-regular basis, but -

gets it pretty much right. The SAS are probably the most dangerous people on the planet, they don't kill people in traffic collisions.