Where do we draw the line between homages and fan wanking?

[Cyberstrike nTo]

OK we all know that Dreamwave TF comics are full of nods, homages, in-jokes, references, or whatever you want to call them to old G1 cartoon show to a sicking degree, to a point when they were rightfully called fan wanking by several posters here.

OK now lets look at the current Transformers: Animated TV shows where you have as much if not more nods, homages, in-jokes, references or whatever you want to call them to the old G1 cartoon show than the all the Dreamwave TF comics, and yet the Transformers fandom seems to give it a free pass.

What's the difference between what the writers that wrote most of Dreamwave's comics and the current writers writing Transformers: Animated? So where does the line between homage and fan wanking begin or does it even exist?

I mean I like Transformers: Animated but the homages/fan wanking is getting real old and IMHO is really hurting the series more than helping it, due to fact that most kids probably aren't going to get it and the fans that don't watch it aren't going to see it or care.

Just something that I wanted to get off my chest.

[Halfshell]

Generally, fanwank is when it's at the expense of the actual story.

[Denyer]

Yeah. When the main substance of the material is wank and rehash, the line is "across the neck".

Dreamwave, story-wise, undoubtedly went down better with people who hadn't seen that material before or didn't have clear memories of it to compare with.

[DrEvil]

Personally I don't really see a problem with the cameos etc hurting Animated at all. I mean the ep with Spike and Carly, or even the one before with the Daniel, it was short and sweet and it didn't hinder the story in anyway. It wouldn't matter if you knew the characters or not.
Or am I missing the point of this somehow? Hmm

[Angelic Knight]

I'm a bit behind on Animated, but what I've seen so far has not been intrusive upon the plot. Grimlock nodding to his G1 self, the Witwickys barely making a cameo, etc. I have really enjoyed those G1 references.

Hard to make the fans happy though...People have been complaining for so long about the Unicron Trilogy's disregard for G1, and now we finally have an animated series nodding to G1, and it's seen as fan wanking. Who knows, maybe they need to bounce around for a while before they obtain the right balance.

Needless to say, goes to show it's time for me to catch up on episodes!

[inflatable dalek]

A homage is something that won't be noticed by people who don't get it (say, filling a crowd scene with obscure Japanese characters rather than designing generics). Fan Wank is intrusive on the story for everyone (Starscream quoting the entire script of the film for no apparent reason).

[Blitzwing]

Yeah, Animated doesn't put in homages at the expense of the story. It is mostly background stuff, or slight references.

Major things like Starscream's immortal Spark and Wreck-Gar showing up are integral to the main plot, but they were done well enough that there should be no reason to complain. Kids will enjoy those stories even though they don't know that it is an homage to the original series.

Dreamwave on the other hand, just started throwing in random characters at will, and was more focused on that, then they were on advancing the plot.

[Damolisher]

I agree, Dreamwave suffered a LOT of fanwank. The "Easter Eggs" got confusing, and it became a case of "IS he meant to be there, is that actually him, is he part of a story that will be, or is that just a pointless easter egg?" IMO, Animated's done very well to not let the homages get too ridiculous.

[Cliffjumper]

Yep, basically DW's references tended to override the narrative. I mean, for one example, in Vol. 1 Red Alert is part of the Ark II crew, and helps fight the virus, right? Whereas in Vol. 2 he's part of some council or other on Cybertron, simply because the council is otherwise made up of second series Autobot cars. As mentioned, the block-quoting of various old episodes in general, and TF:TM in particular, is jarring, especially as it was often a poor fit for the scenes featured... Another example where it's confusing is in whichever series it was that Dai Atlas and Deathsaurus make a cameo. Are they statues? Are they deactivated?

The big difference is that homages tend to use references when it's fitting - if you're actually going to have an Autobot commando unit, you might as well use the original Wrecker line-up. Fanwanking is when the script is actually bent in order to provide references - for example, there's no real point to Ultra Magnus having body armour other than his toy did (Sideswipe and Susntreaker have been portrayed just fine as borthers [disclaimer: whatever you think that means] without being physically identical [disclaimer: apart from when Yomtov got predictably confused, but if we counted those instances it'd be like Texas].

My main problem with DW's reference was always the needless cast-stuffing, anyway. One, we were forever being introduced to characters who disappeared within an issue after massive emphasis was placed on them (e.g. Smokescreen). Two, it was sheer cheating - OMFG, the Autobots are screwed now! No, wait, Omega Supreme was behind that hill the whole time, but no-one remembered until now...