Was the reason Transformers season 4 only had three episodes because of the characters were killed in the movie?

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Starsaberdub
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Was the reason Transformers season 4 only had three episodes because of the characters were killed in the movie?

Post by Starsaberdub »

Had they not killed the character's could their have been a full season 4 as well as more seasons?
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Re: Was the reason Transformers season 4 only had three episodes because of the characters were killed in the movie?

Post by Denyer »

Season 4 was originally intended to be five episodes to tie up the animated series whilst simultaneously introducing 40-50 new characters. Then it got cut to three episodes because Hasbro didn't want to spend the money on five.

Remember that there was a season 5, with Hasbro opting for edited repeats --
https://tfwiki.net/wiki/The_Transformer ... )#Season_5

This was around the time they were recycling moulds too, with Classic Heroes appearing in the UK/Europe, and the G2 cartoon being further recycling and mould reuse.

Transformers had basically run its course, outdoing the life-cycle of most kids toy lines and most of its 80s peers such as Thundercats, Ghostbusters, etc.
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Re: Was the reason Transformers season 4 only had three episodes because of the characters were killed in the movie?

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Denyer wrote: Mon Jan 09, 2023 8:13 pm Season 4 was originally intended to be five episodes to tie up the animated series whilst simultaneously introducing 40-50 new characters. Then it got cut to three episodes because Hasbro didn't want to spend the money on five.

Remember that there was a season 5, with Hasbro opting for edited repeats --
https://tfwiki.net/wiki/The_Transformer ... )#Season_5

This was around the time they were recycling moulds too, with Classic Heroes appearing in the UK/Europe, and the G2 cartoon being further recycling and mould reuse.

Transformers had basically run its course, outdoing the life-cycle of most kids toy lines and most of its 80s peers such as Thundercats, Ghostbusters, etc.
The reason why season 4 was short may have been because of how the movie and season 3 was, other wise why bring back Optimus Prime?
I read there was plans for starscream to return, on Tv trope,after having scorponok/Zarak serve as the "Starscream."
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Re: Was the reason Transformers season 4 only had three episodes because of the characters were killed in the movie?

Post by Denyer »

People take for granted now that Transformers is an evergreen franchise like DC, Marvel, Barbie, etc. That wasn't the norm in the 80s in the US, and you see a quick exit for one of the other big ones, MOTU, in the same sort of period as toy companies started moving on to new ideas. Loads more cartoons in Japan of course, but in the main US market not so much and with UK/European releases being a bit of a test area.

Prime got brought back in Rebirth in part because of the outcry over his death in the movie and it flopping commercially at the time. Hasbro had learnt by the time that the Joes movie was released not to kill popular lead characters in kids franchises, even if they were robots.
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Re: Was the reason Transformers season 4 only had three episodes because of the characters were killed in the movie?

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Denyer wrote: Tue Jan 10, 2023 1:09 am People take for granted now that Transformers is an evergreen franchise like DC, Marvel, Barbie, etc. That wasn't the norm in the 80s in the US, and you see a quick exit for one of the other big ones, MOTU, in the same sort of period as toy companies started moving on to new ideas. Loads more cartoons in Japan of course, but in the main US market not so much and with UK/European releases being a bit of a test area.

Prime got brought back in Rebirth in part because of the outcry over his death in the movie and it flopping commercially at the time. Hasbro had learnt by the time that the Joes movie was released not to kill popular lead characters in kids franchises, even if they were robots.
Could have Optimus have actually been brought back in attempt to keep the show going?
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Re: Was the reason Transformers season 4 only had three episodes because of the characters were killed in the movie?

Post by Denyer »

Hasbro had already decided to kill it and reduced investment. Commercially, the '86 film had been a flop (eventual cult classic status was years in the future) and the natural span of a toy line being a few years, in this case from 1984 to 1987, wasn't unusual.

Bear in mind that TFs was in its early years a toy line that took existing designs and moulds from other toy lines, with a limited span partnership with Marvel to slap some characters and stories on it to advertise in comics (and on TV because restrictions had been loosened on direct marketing to kids as long as shows had some vague educational merit). It was, in almost all respects, hack piecework at some level.

It's just that some of the people involved were a) pretty good all things considered, and b) cared about it a bit more than just another phone-it-in job, from interest / professional pride / it being their break in an industry, etc. And if you get chance to go to conventions, talk to creators, etc, you'll get quite a consistent message that they're generally surprised that folk are still talking about this stuff forty years later.

Even when it comes to ongoing fan interest, a lot of the groundwork was laid for that by conventions in other fandoms such as Doctor Who, Star Trek and Star Wars.
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Re: Was the reason Transformers season 4 only had three episodes because of the characters were killed in the movie?

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Denyer wrote: Tue Jan 17, 2023 11:34 pm Hasbro had already decided to kill it and reduced investment. Commercially, the '86 film had been a flop (eventual cult classic status was years in the future) and the natural span of a toy line being a few years, in this case from 1984 to 1987, wasn't unusual.

Bear in mind that TFs was in its early years a toy line that took existing designs and moulds from other toy lines, with a limited span partnership with Marvel to slap some characters and stories on it to advertise in comics (and on TV because restrictions had been loosened on direct marketing to kids as long as shows had some vague educational merit). It was, in almost all respects, hack piecework at some level.

It's just that some of the people involved were a) pretty good all things considered, and b) cared about it a bit more than just another phone-it-in job, from interest / professional pride / it being their break in an industry, etc. And if you get chance to go to conventions, talk to creators, etc, you'll get quite a consistent message that they're generally surprised that folk are still talking about this stuff forty years later.

Even when it comes to ongoing fan interest, a lot of the groundwork was laid for that by conventions in other fandoms such as Doctor Who, Star Trek and Star Wars.
How do you know they brought back Optimus Prime not for the show but for the fans and that Hasbro had already decided to end the show?
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Re: Was the reason Transformers season 4 only had three episodes because of the characters were killed in the movie?

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Prime / the '86 movie / why Hasbro dialled back on deaths in G.I. Joe the Movie:

If the topic's of interest I'd recommend reading around on what the original creators involved have committed for posterity. For example Flint Dille's autobiography --
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Gamesmaster-Cu ... 0891L6KXL/

And obviously it's worth listening to those people at conventions (a lot of panels end up on YouTube) or, if information isn't already documented within the fandom, talking to them whilst we're fortunate enough to still have them. Although I'd strongly recommend not bombarding creators with direct queries, as a matter of courtesy; research first. There's been active fandom now since the 90s.

Decisions on S4:

https://tfwiki.net/wiki/David_Wise
https://tfwiki.net/wiki/Generation_1_(cartoon)#Season_4

Are you coming at this from the perspective of someone who lived through the years in the 80s when TFs was being established, or as having found the franchise later on?

Because a lot of things boil down to there being no expectation at the time that the material would be of interest now.
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Re: Was the reason Transformers season 4 only had three episodes because of the characters were killed in the movie?

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Denyer wrote: Wed Jan 18, 2023 6:18 pm Prime / the '86 movie / why Hasbro dialled back on deaths in G.I. Joe the Movie:

If the topic's of interest I'd recommend reading around on what the original creators involved have committed for posterity. For example Flint Dille's autobiography --
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Gamesmaster-Cu ... 0891L6KXL/

And obviously it's worth listening to those people at conventions (a lot of panels end up on YouTube) or, if information isn't already documented within the fandom, talking to them whilst we're fortunate enough to still have them. Although I'd strongly recommend not bombarding creators with direct queries, as a matter of courtesy; research first. There's been active fandom now since the 90s.

Decisions on S4:

https://tfwiki.net/wiki/David_Wise
https://tfwiki.net/wiki/Generation_1_(cartoon)#Season_4

Are you coming at this from the perspective of someone who lived through the years in the 80s when TFs was being established, or as having found the franchise later on?

Because a lot of things boil down to there being no expectation at the time that the material would be of interest now.
I found the franchise later on.
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Re: Was the reason Transformers season 4 only had three episodes because of the characters were killed in the movie?

Post by Starsaberdub »

Denyer wrote: Mon Jan 09, 2023 8:13 pm Season 4 was originally intended to be five episodes to tie up the animated series whilst simultaneously introducing 40-50 new characters. Then it got cut to three episodes because Hasbro didn't want to spend the money on five.

Remember that there was a season 5, with Hasbro opting for edited repeats --
https://tfwiki.net/wiki/The_Transformer ... )#Season_5

This was around the time they were recycling moulds too, with Classic Heroes appearing in the UK/Europe, and the G2 cartoon being further recycling and mould reuse.

Transformers had basically run its course, outdoing the life-cycle of most kids toy lines and most of its 80s peers such as Thundercats, Ghostbusters, etc.
How come G.I.Joe later got another series after its movie?
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Re: Was the reason Transformers season 4 only had three episodes because of the characters were killed in the movie?

Post by Denyer »

You mean the DIC continuation? Because it was cheap.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/G.I._Joe: ... TV_series)

In order to cut production costs for the original animated series, Hasbro dropped Sunbow and contracted DiC to continue the series. Story editor Buzz Dixon explained in an interview: "Hasbro had been funding G.I. Joe out of their own pocket; they got a ridiculous deal from DiC to take over the series and they pretty much let them."
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Re: Was the reason Transformers season 4 only had three episodes because of the characters were killed in the movie?

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Denyer wrote: Mon Feb 06, 2023 3:22 am You mean the DIC continuation? Because it was cheap.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/G.I._Joe: ... TV_series)

In order to cut production costs for the original animated series, Hasbro dropped Sunbow and contracted DiC to continue the series. Story editor Buzz Dixon explained in an interview: "Hasbro had been funding G.I. Joe out of their own pocket; they got a ridiculous deal from DiC to take over the series and they pretty much let them."
Why do that G.I. Joe and not Transformers?
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Re: Was the reason Transformers season 4 only had three episodes because of the characters were killed in the movie?

Post by Denyer »

As stated, they had a production company (DiC) who offered to do it cheaply. If DiC had bid for TFs it's pretty likely they'd have got that too.
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