Is anyone else still pissed about what happened to Firefly?

The PS3 KILLeR · Post by **The PS3 KILLeR** » Sat Jul 27, 2013 10:40 am

It's one of the best shows I've ever seen, yet fox killed it before it took its first breath. I think it's criminal family guy can come back from the dead yet they've screwed this masterpiece of a show over since day one!

Not showing the first episode first, airing the rest out of order, weeks between episodes... It's insane how bad fox screwed this up. Hell it could still be on the air today! But nope, one of the coolest shows I've ever seen ends with a total of 14 episodes and 1 movie (thanks to universal).

That's not enough! The adventures of Mal and the crew of serenity could've rivaled Star Wars in scope, but is just remembered by fox as a failed experiment.

This show needs to come back in a big way. Albeit another season, an officially trilogy (one movie isn't enough joss!), or even a video game possibly made by telltale games. Halo 3:ODST was basically a hidden Firefly game as half the cast was in it, but god bungie don't tease me do the real thing!

I know there's the Firefly online game coming but it's on iOS and I'm sorry but I don't take this seriously. How in the hell are they gonna do an mmo on iOS? That doesn't sound fun at all, scrap that crap and give us one for next-gen and pc!

Anyone else on here terribly miss this series? And please if you haven't seen it stop reading this and boot up Netflix or whatever you have and watch it! You won't regret it, I promise you that!

Cliffjumper · Post by **Cliffjumper** » Sat Jul 27, 2013 1:25 pm

Firefly's good but formulaic and obvious. The characters don't develop at all, they just bounce snappy dialogue off each other. It was a respectable series, especially compared to the shit around now, but not anything particularly different or daring unless you've not really watched anything good ever before or if you're one of Whedon's cultists.

Cyberstrike nTo · Post by **Cyberstrike nTo** » Sat Jul 27, 2013 7:10 pm

Firefly is really an updated version of Hammer Films' Moon Zero Two. I doubt that it will be continued as a movie series because the last one didn't make as much money as Universal wanted it too. At best it will continue on as an ocassional comic book series.

I think with smart phones becoming more and more powerful and easier to come by we will see more and more games being made for them that will rival the current and next generation consoles. Right now it's alot cheaper to make an iOS game than a PC or console game and that is why it's being made as one and given how less than profitbale than Firefly/Serenity has done in TV shows and movies and given how in demand the actors are for other projects it seems unlikly any game to feature their voices.

Post by **inflatable dalek** » Sun Jul 28, 2013 12:40 am

I like what was made of Firefly as a good, entertaining rompy show with an excellent cast. It certainly had the potential to be so much more (and the first 13 episodes of Buffy and Angel aren't really indicative of the direction those shows wound up going, even if some of them are excellent television in their own right), but equally the difficulties of being on a network that really didn't want them probably makes it a good thing we got one good short seasons rather than the (supposed, based on many complaints I've heard from people who watched it, this is just an example based on those peoples opinion, if you think this show was excellent throughout I won't argue with you, so just substitute Space: 1999) Dollhouse thing of doing two seasons and winding up a complete mess because of all the hoops it had to jump through in order to stay on air.

And we did get a surprisingly good ( surprising in that it entertains both as a continuation of the series for fans and a standalone action adventure movie for people catching it on ITV4 after the pub, many films based on TV shows that were successful often fail at that) movie to act as a final.

This show needs to come back in a big way.

IIRC Whedon has been fairly straightforward about the fact he could quite easily get another Firefly movie off the ground now as a vanity project given out as a reward for the Avengers.

And to be fair, "From the director of one of the most successful films ever" makes for better marketing that "From the bloke who made that vampire TV show that was popular a few years ago" does, so whatever he does in the next few years will make its money back. It's fair to say his black and white Shakespeare film with half the Angel cast in it falls in that category of only getting the attention (in relation to its low budget limited release status) it did off the Marvel work.

But he's also been fairly honest that the bulk of the cast are in regular employment and any Firefly continuation/sop to his own ego would depend on them all becoming unemployed at the same (right for his own schedule) time. Which at the very least means Castle has to go. And he's not yet so far gone up his own ass he wants to demand everyone do what he wants when he wants.

Plus, Adam Baldwin must surely find a semi-regular gig voicing a Transformer more than makes up for the premature ends of both Firefly and Chuck? Right Adam? Right? Put the gun down Adam...

Cliffjumper wrote:The characters don't develop at all,

Whilst I think most of what you say about the show is either things I agree with or comes under fair comment, I do find this more than a bit harsh. Considering it's only half a planned season, and the usual form for American TV is one season= 1 year (and that's certainly what Buffy and Angel did, though the former did get occasionally confused by having characters talk as if the start of the school year was the start of the real year, so you'd have things like the non-school pupil Mayor saying "Spike caused us a lot of trouble last year" when he means "Spike caused us a lot of trouble in March"), so surely the amount of change in them is pretty much right for just six months of their lives?

Post by **Warcry** » Sun Jul 28, 2013 4:02 am

Firefly was alright. I agree with Cliffy that the aborted half-season of the TV show does come off as kind of shallow. Lots of fun adventures, funny dialogue and interesting characters, but nothing comes of it. It was a good start, a window into an interesting world, but the axe fell before it could grow beyond that. I think it could have been great with such a solid creative team and cast, but who knows?

I watched it once and I enjoyed it, but I doubt I'll do so again for a long time. It's just one out of many, many good shows cut down before it's time. Heck, it's not even my favourite sci-fi TV series aborted after half a season in the early 2000s (that would be Threshold, which I'm sure none of you remember because it hasn't been evangelized by fans with an axe to grind for the last decade

).

The PS3 KILLeR · Post by **The PS3 KILLeR** » Sun Jul 28, 2013 4:39 am

Wow great responds!

Honestly what got me addicted to the show is Nathan Fillion. That man is a genius! If they made an Uncharted movie and they don't cast him as drake I'm staying away like its the Black Plague! But regarding castle... Can't they suspend production for awhile to make another movie. Hell David Duchovny found time between seasons of Californication to make the 2nd X-files movie. So why can't he do the same? And what's the other cast doing nowadays? I know Alan was pretty busy lately ( tucker&dale vs. evil, dark of the moon, king kandy in wreck it Ralph) and Adam has done some voice work as mentioned but nothing major. So how hard is it really to get the gang back together? And yes I know Wash died... But maybe it'll be a prequel or something!

Cliffjumper · Post by **Cliffjumper** » Sun Jul 28, 2013 5:30 am

I don't think there's any great clamour for a second film from anyone but the low-on-perspective fans (of course the cast make the right noises at conventions, that's called playing the game); even Whedon's probably happier doing what Disney tell him to for Marvel studios as he's actually getting money. Serenity did alright but it wasn't the Star Trek-style genuinely successful alternate route for the 'franchise'.

I think even within 13 episodes (and a film) there was plenty of space for the characters to grow more than they did - Buffy's first season is largely terrible, so that's not a fair comparison; TBH the point isn't about whether show X did this or show Y did that, in Firefly there's no character progression despite ample opportunities (Whedon's obvious, telegraphed about-faces like River Tan being a simple mix of Drusilla and Faith are not character progression). And considering the acclaim it's had piled on it that's not good enough, not when there's not an awful lot of anything else in there either. The most telling thing is that from half a season you can basically tell where each character's going for at least another half season. It really doesn't feel like we actually missed anything apart from another few hours of derivative space opera.

It reminds me a lot of recent Tarantino films (particularly Death Proof) in that Whedon's had so many people tell him he's really good at snappy dialogue that the scripts are just packed with it, but it's not up to scratch and what you're left with is a bunch of faceless characters sitting around bouncing one-liners off each other because someone believes their own hype.

Cliffjumper · Post by **Cliffjumper** » Sun Jul 28, 2013 5:39 am

(I also think Firefly's fans are the show's biggest enemy... the outright evangelism means expectations of any new viewer are built sky high and the show can't deliver)

The PS3 KILLeR · Post by **The PS3 KILLeR** » Sun Jul 28, 2013 10:21 am

Cliffjumper wrote:(I also think Firefly's fans are the show's biggest enemy... the outright evangelism means expectations of any new viewer are built sky high and the show can't deliver)

I see what you mean. Prometheus is a prime example, got way too over hyped by fans just because it was a return to the universe and many left disappointed. I may be passionate about Firefly but I'm not a blind drone who flocks to anything he holds dear and won't left go. If it sucks I'm gonna think it sucks. I just simply hate that this series got killed before it had a fair chance to shine.

I go into every movie without any expectations, mainly so I'm disappointed less. Like Prometheus, I wasn't expecting the second coming of Christ like some people were. I just wanted to see another film in the universe I love so much and it not totally suck. And IMO Prometheus is a good standalone film, lots of problems but still good enough I proudly display it beside my Alien anthology set on my Blu-ray shelf.

When you look at it Firefly had a great ending so I could deal without another film. But I'm just saddened that it never even got a fair shot to evolve. I mean look at breaking bad, the first season is nothing like the others and now the show has became a whole different beast almost. Who's to say all the problems you and others have with it wouldn't of been ironed out? The sad thing is we'll never know probably, so if we don't get any announcements a year after Avengers: age of ultron comes out it might be time to throw in the towel and hang up the brown coats for good.

Skyquake87 · Post by **Skyquake87** » Sun Jul 28, 2013 5:58 pm

I've got Serenity, watched it, enjoyed it but never been that interested to delve into the TV show. There doesn't seem to me to be anything I've missed out on by not seeing the telly show.

I'm more disappointed that the Terminator TV show got cancelled.

Cyberstrike nTo · Post by **Cyberstrike nTo** » Sun Jul 28, 2013 6:01 pm

Skyquake87 wrote:I'm more disappointed that the Terminator TV show got cancelled.

Me too.

Post by **inflatable dalek** » Sun Jul 28, 2013 7:15 pm

Cliffjumper wrote:(I also think Firefly's fans are the show's biggest enemy... the outright evangelism means expectations of any new viewer are built sky high and the show can't deliver)

Aye, but that's probably true of anything with a fanbase. I'm currently coming up to the end of Prime season one and equally, whilst it's been perfectly watchable and enjoyable as a action kids cartoon it's been nowhere near as good (with a couple of exceptions) as most of the dedicated fans have claimed.

Mind, I suppose that works the other way as well. I suspect the Twilight films can't possibly be as bad as the bile aimed at them by the haters might suggest.

Skyquake87 · Post by **Skyquake87** » Sun Jul 28, 2013 9:05 pm

I couldn't sit through the Twilight films for all the nothing happening. I made the first one, and gave up on the second. Its basically girl falls for vamp, vamp fancies girl but says 'i can't be with you', is pale and a bit interesting to girl. Girl moons over him for 2 and half hours. Repeat ad nauseum throwing in topless werewolf boy for soap-like possible cheating jeopardy.

What kills them for me is the zero charisma and lack of chemistry between Pattison and Stewart, the whole enterprise comes across like watching a girl moon over a black and white athena poster.

All the vamp and werewolf stuff is pretty negligible next to this 'drama'. Love him or hate him, Wheddon did this stuff ten times better.

angloconvoy · Post by **angloconvoy** » Mon Jul 29, 2013 2:46 am

I was a big fan of the show when I first watched it. Haven't watched it in a long time, but from memory snappy dialogue and a cast that played well together elevated it above most other stuff that was on at the time. But on balance, I'd rather have half a season of stuff I really liked, plus one movie that tied up everything that needed tying up perfectly well, than a slowly deteriorating show that drags on way past its lifespan simply because it's a cash cow (most recent disappointment being How I Met Your Mother, great start but by this point played out past any of the character's reasonable arcs and into the Ross & Rachel loop that most people around my age should remember).
Also, I'm not all that interested in seeing any continuation that doesn't include Alan Tudyk.
I did very much enjoy the way they tied off the Preacher's loose ends as "No, I wasn't being secretive so I could lead up to a big reveal, I just genuinely want to take that shit to my grave." which was much more satisying than any big revelation moment where we found out he worked for Blue Sun or whatever could ever have been.

I found Twilight borderline unwatchable, but that was mostly because the photography direction was just awful. Acting and story alone may have gotten a pass, but I've seen better direction in movies made by film students or even complete amateurs. To be clear, gotten a pass only means that I can see how it would be enough to appeal to its intended demographic. Grown women who were heavily into it made me despair a little. Also, I didn't really think such a dangerous and abusive storyline is healthy to present to teenage girls as genuine romance, but that's an issue for parents to deal with.

Slayer-Fan123 · Post by **Slayer-Fan123** » Mon Jul 29, 2013 6:23 am

I really only followed the show casually, so I haven't that fanbase mindset.
It was still a neat universe either way, so for that reason alone I think it would be nice to reboot it. Cliffjumper is right about how the overall fanbase is though.

Cyberstrike nTo · Post by **Cyberstrike nTo** » Wed Jul 31, 2013 6:57 pm

Cliffjumper wrote:(I also think Firefly's fans are the show's biggest enemy... the outright evangelism means expectations of any new viewer are built sky high and the show can't deliver)

I think it's great for a show, movie, video game, or whatever else to have a very passionate fanbase, but it's a double-edge sword. When fans think they know how a movie, TV series, a game should be done and get pissed when the creators don't give them what they exactly how they see it their way and whine about it on the net and social media to no end and then they wonder why some creators don't listen to fans.

Why should they?

The fans that are rude, crude, and won't budge from their way IMHO don't deserve any respect from creators and/or other fans.

In Whedon's case he has said "I don't give fans that they want, I give them what they need." I don't see a need for Serenity 2 I felt Whedon told the story that he needed to tell. If he has another story to tell in that he feels needed to be told in that universe. Until then I don't see a reason for another movie or TV show. Now maybe a video game series, the occasional comic book series and prose novels is the better way to go with Firefly/Serenity as a franchise for the future.