Watchmen: Movie thread [SPOILER TAGS?]

Sir Auros · Post by **Sir Auros** » Sat Mar 07, 2009 4:38 am

I really enjoyed it, and came out of the theater with only three small complaints. Seriously, just three minor things and I loved everything else about the movie.

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1 - The actress playing the elder Jupiter was HORRIBLE. Hammed it up majorly.

2 - Rorschach's mother was also a weakpoint. If 30 more seconds had been spent on that bit, it would have come across stronger and less cartoony.

3 - Hallelujah. Probably not a good soundtrack choice for that scene.

It was simultaneously intelligent and shlock, realistic and absurd, brutal and funny. I just thoroughly enjoyed the movie. I do wonder about people who haven't read the series prior to seeing the movie, though. The reviews I saw already were bad, but I have been disagreeing with film critics for years.

rattrap23 · Post by **rattrap23** » Sat Mar 07, 2009 5:28 am

I just got back from the theatre.

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Like you said about Sally Jupiter, her performance was really hammed up.

As well replacing the fake alien squid with framing the explosion on Dr Manhattan, saved up a lot of screen time, by not having to involve the black freighter comics or island of scientists, artists and special effects wizards, without destroying the core of the plot.

I also agree with your third point.

Sir Auros · Post by **Sir Auros** » Sat Mar 07, 2009 5:31 am

Yikes, I actually agree with Roger Ebert. Feels odd.

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Re:Major plot change - It may be heresy, but I think that change was really for the better. The only unfortunate thing about changing the plot was that the genetically engineered cat had no explanation

rattrap23 · Post by **rattrap23** » Sat Mar 07, 2009 5:38 am

YES, your right.

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But wait, i think they may have mentioned something about genetic reserch

Post by **inflatable dalek** » Sat Mar 07, 2009 11:39 am

There was no explanation for the cat, which was odd as it could have been done in one line. The directors cut is apparently over three hours long so perhaps it'll be in there...

[This should probably be merged with the thread in comics to create a ubber Watchmen reaction thread]

Prowl1984 · Post by **Prowl1984** » Sat Mar 07, 2009 12:30 pm

well that film really was the shiznit wasn't it? i actually felt as if i was watching the comicbook if that makes any sense. everything was handled perfectly, plot, characterisation, social commentary, and the intro to "these times they are a changing" detailing the different history was fantastic. Rorschach stole the show for me, well he did in the comic too but the guy who played him nailed it. the comedian was quite eerie in regards to how much he looked like his printed counterpart. Silk spectre was the only character that annoyed me but saying that she annoyed me in the comic. the funeral scene and ensuing flashbacks were handled brilliantly and the same goes for Dr Manhattans flash forwards/backwards, i wasn't entirely sure how well it would work on screen but they nailed it.

as for the ending i was pleased. considering there were rumors of it ending with a nuke going off and thus defying the whole point, i thought they carried it off pretty well. giant brain squid really wouldn't have worked and people who hadn't read the comic would have been in hysterics or extremely confused.

all in all this film was f**kin awesome.

(except for my chemical toilet being played during the end credits)

yes i did just copy and paste my reply from the other thread....

Halfshell · Post by **Halfshell** » Sat Mar 07, 2009 12:55 pm

Passable.

The contraction of Adrian's plan was a necessary evil, and done quite well. Seriously, to do a completely faithful recreation we'd be looking at about six hours and a film that's completely impenetrable... that's why the original's a comic, after all.

A few of the tweaks annoyed me (half the joy of Adrian catching the bullet was the fact he mentions it as a solution to his attempted hit, and then says he wasn't sure it'd work... reducing it to a Rorschach v/o was a minor waste, especially was there was room in the narrative for both), but I can cope with.

Dropped the ball massively on the Antarctica stuff though, sorry to say.

The slow realisation of "Jesus, he was right- All we did was fail to stop him saving Earth" being replaced by Dan going all Righteous Fury Batman on Adrian just stinks of studio interference. And, to some degree, completely misses the point - both of the ending and of Dan's character. The "I did right in the end"/"nothing ends" exchange still stands as a better denouement for Veidt, solely because it just underlines he'll always have to live with his guilt (he's technically asking God for confirmation of his actions and being shot down)... here all he has to live with is a bruised cheek.

What should, in theory, be one of the biggest twists Evar (shit, the villain is actually the hero) just fell flat on its face from where I was sat.

Eminently watchable though, and didn't drag at all. Even if the bullet time slo-mo and superhuman acrobatics are both exceedingly annoying and completely against type. Apparently superhuman agility in a middle aged person doesn't count as a superpower in Zack Snyder's world.

3/5. Soundtrack was cracking. A lot of the acting, sadly, wasn't. Most notably Sally, as Auros says.

Interested in how people who don't know the source will respond. And I had to fight the urge to loudly go "arrooooo" every time Nixon spoke.

Post by **inflatable dalek** » Sat Mar 07, 2009 1:03 pm

Halfshell wrote: The slow realisation of "Jesus, he was right- All we did was fail to stop him saving Earth" being replaced by Dan going all Righteous Fury Batman on Adrian just stinks of studio interference.

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I thought that worked well, a very human reaction to the death of the closest thing he has to a friend but still denies him any sort of closure or sense of justice, with Adrian just taking it in a "I don't care anymore" way and not giving him the satisfaction of fighting back.

Considering Hollywood's love of sequels I thought it was interesting they didn't use the idea of Night Owl and Spectre being on the run at the end, the most launching point for a part II

After Nixon I thought the prosphetics on the old old Silk Spectre was a bit dodgy as well, looked to much like old Jenifer from Back to the Future II (a good make up job twenty years ago). Oddly the Comedian was done perfectly in that you couldn't tell he was made up.

Halfshell · Post by **Halfshell** » Sat Mar 07, 2009 1:11 pm

inflatable dalek wrote:looked to much like old Jenifer from Back to the Future II

Yes! That's what she reminded me of.

Also, I never really read Sally as being quite so bitter as she came across in the film. Also never imagined Rorschach's voice as being quite so annoying.

Oddly the Comedian was done perfectly in that you couldn't tell he was made up.

He didn't come across as quite so youthful and fresh-faced in the rape scene, though.

Transformer Kamen · Post by **Transformer Kamen** » Sat Mar 07, 2009 6:26 pm

I'm really divided in my opinion of the film. While I think it's a good movie any way you slice it, I sometimes felt it was too faithful to the novel in some respects. For the things they changed or cut out, I think they were all handled well and mostly perserved the ideas in the novel, though I do wish Rorschach was a bit more fleshed out (they completely excised his meeting the Adrian--Dan warns him instead--and they also wrote out Laurie's verbal attack on Rorschach when he warns her and Dr. Manhatten.). As it is, I felt like his conflict at the end kinda fell flat, as he didn't really seem to have a relationship with any one besides Dan.

The acting was also a little sketchy. Aside from Rorschach the other actors seemed like they lacked emotion or motiviation. Dr. Manhatten was supposed to sound like that, so that went well.

Otherwise, the slow-motion sequences and gratutious gore were a bit much, but what else would I expect from Synder?

I did happen to see the film with someone not familier with the comic, and he said he followed it well, and quite enjoyed it.

Post by **inflatable dalek** » Sat Mar 07, 2009 6:33 pm

I was actually impressed by how it managed to be faithful to the book and still work, I'm all in favour of changing stuff to suit the medium but Snyder surprised me by making stuff I was sure could never work off the printed page... work.

Halfshell · Post by **Halfshell** » Sat Mar 07, 2009 6:40 pm

Transformer Kamen wrote:they completely excised his meeting the Adrian--Dan warns him instead--

That bugged me. Rorschach states that the only people left on the list are Manhattan and Laurie, but he doesn't know [to our knowledge] that Dan's been to see Adrian.

They also trimmed the bit about Adrian bugging Moloch's place, so in the context of the film alone [which is what we have to go by, considering the changes make it a different tale to the book], we don't know how he knew about Blake's visit.

Also - what was that gadget that went into the aircon in the tv studio?

rattrap23 · Post by **rattrap23** » Sat Mar 07, 2009 7:38 pm

Poison gas cannister, thet whould give Janey Slater and Wally Weaver cancer. Veidt planted it so they would blame Dr Manhattan for thier cancer.
It happened in the past.

CounterPunch · Post by **CounterPunch** » Sun Mar 08, 2009 12:20 am

So, I saw the film today, thought it was bloody good, not perfect, but dayam....

Coupla issues -

1. Yeh the super agility and strength of middle aged folks got to me a bit, I know Veidt is the the peak of human physical and mental pefection, but was he able to throw someone clean across/jump across a room in the comic like he did in the film??

2. Rorschachs mask really started pissing me off big time, I get it, in the comic its constantly changing to reflect the emotion hes going through, and the facial expressions and stuff, but it didnst translate in the film, jus looked stupid.

3. Not an issue, more a question, How would Veidt know that he wouldnt create millions of Dr Manhattans with his bombs?

4. Slo mo, not as big an issue as I thought it would be, but still real overused.

Other than that, I really loved it

Zeeks · Post by **Zeeks** » Sun Mar 08, 2009 3:13 am

There is a new comic shop that opened 5 minutes away from the theatre I saw it in, and he was there pumping the film with all sorts of giveaways and contests. Got a nice little cup, poster, and other small paraphenelia out of the deal.

Was looking for the Star Trek Trailer that everyone was talking about- didn't see it.

I haven't been to a 3 hour movie since Jackson's King Kong remake, but oddly enough, I didn't notice the time go by since the movie had me quite captivated- My only questionable reaction to this was the scene where Rorschach confronted the child murderer- was hoping they would stay true to the comic for that, but I can live with it.

Loved the film, loved the trade, loved Dr. Manhattan, can't wait for the DVD.

Post by **inflatable dalek** » Sun Mar 08, 2009 3:41 am

Halfshell wrote:=
Also - what was that gadget that went into the aircon in the tv studio?

I'm so glad someone said that, I've been told (as Rattrap says) the canister was a flashback to the two assistants getting cancer in the past. I thought it was something released into the TV studio as John gave his interivew that was supposed to make him more emotional and paronoid leading to his outburst... But I didn't get how it was suppossed to effect someone who didn't breath. So either we are right and that didn't make sense, or it was explained poorly.

RID Scourge · Post by **RID Scourge** » Sun Mar 08, 2009 4:18 am

I just got back from seeing it. It was awesome

They changed quite a bit from the comic (mostly because what they cut out would have required explaination, and the movie is all ready three hours long).

I think the movie was stronger for its changes, but it still managed to capture the themes and moral dilemma of the comic.

Transformer Kamen · Post by **Transformer Kamen** » Mon Mar 09, 2009 1:15 am

Saw it a second time today after re-reading the novel, and at an earlier time of day. No problems with pacing or acting this time around, so I guess my complaints along those lines resulted from fatigue.

Caught a lot more fanwank, too.

Post by **inflatable dalek** » Mon Mar 09, 2009 9:34 am

One thing I learnt today, the thingamajig used in the new ending is a Sub Quantum Unifying Intrinsic Device. Or SQUID.

Clogs · Post by **Clogs** » Mon Mar 09, 2009 2:12 pm

Saw the movie yesterday and... almost lost for words, but here goes:

That was pretty damn good.

The flashbacks were handled sensitively and added to the narrative very well. I was impressed by the explanations for events which were not in the comic e.g. the Veidt shooting became the deaths of the captains of capitalism and I am not alone, it appears, in the heresy of thinking the film pulled the 'not a squid-thing' off wonderfully, giving a wholly satisfactory feeling to the ending. We get to see up-front that Veidt has betrayed both Man and a god in his self-righteousness and only after showing off to the others does he really begin to taste the ashes.

The Comedian was too excellent for superlatives. Rorschach managed to be a 'Mad' image and stunningly dangerous. Nite Owl even matched his character too nicely. I can live with the acrobatic fighting, intellegence, strength etc. because, even in the book, you get the feeling that these particular costumed vigilantes have an edge that makes them almost superhuman; those without the edge get killed or die. The only let down were the two Silk Spectres; mum seemed too embittered to change so quickly at the end and Laurie was just too young.

On Nixon's nose - I'm sure Getafix/Panoramix would have something to say about that nose. It was so very, very distractingly Cyrano de Bergerac, non?

Um, did anyone think that Veidt looked so like The Thin White Duke?