THIRD PARTY TOYS NEWS

[Cliffjumper]

I'd say enough of the G1 figures are recolour-friendly that in a line like MP if they work out that there're enough repaints across the board coming up with 2/3 per figure isn't crucial.

Grimlock and Hot Rod, both with low-expectation fan-orientated recolours, have shown that; as cretinous as it was, the Marvel version of Grimlock was a game-changer in terms of what Takara are willing to try (ditto Tigertrack). Looking at what's left from the Autobot cars (plus the announced Bumblebee):

Ironhide: Ratchet, naturally. With the possibility of a low-volume Marvel or Sunbow run for either, depending on what gets the nod, or a black Diaclone Ironhide.

Wheeljack: Tigertrack says to me that Marlboor, done in small numbers as an exclusive, is do-able - and likely considering it's one of the best known and most lusted after Diaclone variants. Expect the graphics to be 3rd market, though - probably just the chevrons on the car.

Bumblebee: Will be a big enough seller on his name for it to not worry. I would suspect he'll be done in a way that the mould can be reshelled to Cliffjumper (very similar animation models and original toys) and thus Hubcap. Possible low run fan-aimed redecos are red and gold.

Sunstreaker: low-volume cop recolour, maybe red version.

Trailbreaker: share with Hoist is feasible depending on cartoon versus toy approach and/or clever moulding. If not, there're a couple of low-volume Diaclone schemes.

Mirage: low-volume red Diaclone version. Difficulty with Mirage is possibly going to be working out who actually owns the rights to the design.

Jazz: Stepper/Ricochet - not humungously popular but a step (LOL!) above most. Wouldn't rule out a silver 'movie' version either.

Skids: Crosscut as low-run.

Hound: Detritus maybe as low run, or something totally random. Or even just stand-alone for this one.

Tracks: Road Rage, low-run.

Inferno: Grapple.

Plus if money's tight they can still get Clamp Down and Deep Cover out of the Lambo (depending on licence length; I am mildly surprised we haven't had all five in rapid succession, and that boring old Tigertrack got the nod over these two).

That's three moulds with 'prime' repaints, six with obvious 'secondary' repaints they probably don't have the house on and only Hound with no realistic possibilities. I really wouldn't underestimate the pull repaints are going to have as long as the new moulds keep some sort of momentum - there will be enough people out there who want a shelf full of the things once numbers hit critical mass; here the smaller size and lower price could reap dividends.

People bought Alternators like Swerve, Rollbar and Decepticharge once they were hooked on the line; not in enough quantities but there's a much more solid and well-organised market for adult-orientated robot toys in Japan (Soul of Chogokin's probably up to a hundred unique figures by now) which doesn't involve them having to sell like child-orientated figures.

That said, much is going to hinge on Bumblebee. If they don't have the Beetle people will start to waver; I'd say they must be fairly confident to have him so far up the order. With Wheeljack it's an early sign that they aren't just going to whistle through the 'easy repaint' guys and leave people hanging for Sunstreaker and Hound.

Half-glass empty is that the 'new' Masterpiece line has done three figures and there's plenty of time for Takara to screw up.

[Warcry]

With Bumblebee, are we certain they've squared the bug with VW? Could be looking at Cliffjumper, Hubcap, and any number of less-known minibots.

Bumblebee is a grey area, for sure. The general thesis seems to be coming as close as possible to both the cartoon robot modes and the real-world alt-modes, which is why (for example) Bluestreak's colour scheme doesn't quite follow the cartoon layout. With that in mind I think they probably try to make Bee a real Beetle, but if VW doesn't play ball they could probably get away with making the alt-mode strictly cartoon.

Cliffjumper, though? If he actually looked anything like his real-world alt-mode, he wouldn't be anything like Cliffjumper. I doubt they'd even think about licensing for him. And I do fully expect Takara to reuse the Bumblebee toy's "skeleton" for Cliffy. Depending on how big he ends up and what the price is, I'd imagine we'll see all sorts of redecos too...Bug Bite and Hubcap for sure, and probably a bunch of random South American decos as well.

I kinda worry that MP Bumblebee will wind up being the size of a Deluxe and as complex as an Alternity, though.

Implicit in "if they could make it pay", really (although for how much longer is this viable with professional bootleggers getting involved?)

Not sure the bootleggers will be much of a factor honestly. At least not with their current paradigm...the bootlegs are cheaper than buying from BBTS or other Western stores but not all that much cheaper than ordering directly from Asian sources, and with the QC issues we've seen on Sideswipe and Red Alert it'll be impossible for them to be passed off as the real thing.

Without a price gap, if Takara produces enough to meet demand (which is the main issue so far...) I don't think the KOs will make much inroads. Hasbro deciding to produce the MP cars would likewise increase supply and seriously hurt demand for KOs.

The fandom attracts engineers, the science end of science fiction fans and the product's particularly tactile and creative. Third party product is also easier to defend in a way that a likeness of Wolverine or Batman/Superman isn't.

I'm not sure that's true anymore. Three or four years ago when third-party stuff was add-ons for existing figures or vague approximations of G1 characters like Defender, it seemed like that was the case. But these days third parties are trying to horn in on the Masterpiece market by producing picture-perfect reproductions of G1 character models. There's still a gap between the two positions (it'd be damn hard to make a Superman toy without using trademarked logos, whereas Shockwave without Decepticon badges is still going to sell to folks who want a Shockwave) but it's a narrower gap than it used to be. I think DC would be a lot more vigorous defending their IP than Hasbro has been to date, though, which would make a big difference.

And I think you're right about the franchise attracting engineers. It makes sense that we'd have more folks like that per capita than other fandoms.

Inferno: Grapple.

Almost certainly an Artfire too, since Jazz wouldn't offer any redeco options besides Stepper. Takara would want to sell you the whole set.

Plus if money's tight they can still get Clamp Down and Deep Cover out of the Lambo (depending on licence length; I am mildly surprised we haven't had all five in rapid succession, and that boring old Tigertrack got the nod over these two).

I suspect Tigertrack was a cynical stab at getting people to buy a stand-in for Sunstreaker more than anything else.

I'd be surprised to see Clampdown or Deep Cover any time soon though, since one is Red Alert with Sideswipe's head and a couple different paint apps and the other is G2 Sideswipe with blue instead of red. They might get to them eventually if the license lasts long enough but I'd be really surprised to see them before 2015.

Another redeco they'd be crazy to pass up is a Blue Bluestreak deco of the Datsun mold. I'm still not sure why we never got a reissue or even the Universe mold in those colours, because that's by far the most popular variant Diaclone scheme amongst the fandom.

[Knightdramon]

Another redeco they'd be crazy to pass up is a Blue Bluestreak deco of the Datsun mold. I'm still not sure why we never got a reissue or even the Universe mold in those colours, because that's by far the most popular variant Diaclone scheme amongst the fandom.

Yet it's the one that has never, even once, been released as a transformer, right?

Nowhere.

All the G1 datsun reissues, even that chromed silver streak---no blue version

The Universe mould released and redecoed lots of times--no blue version

All the small spychangers--no blue version

Unicron trilogy rehashes, remakes and homages--nowhere to be seen

Alternators---nope

Binaltech--maybe you can count the blue repaint at the end of the line, but that looked more like a no markings somescreen than streak.

Just saying, for what appears to be the nicest and semi-canon scheme, there hasn't been lots of attention by takara or hasbro.

[Warcry]

Yet it's the one that has never, even once, been released as a transformer, right?

I think it might have been slapped on a Spychanger or something once. And the Kreon. But on a proper toy? Nope.

I legitimately cannot understand this. It is easily the most storied alternate deco in Transformers history, and the only Diaclone toy to inspire an urban legend about it being released as a TF in those colours when it actually wasn't. It's also (IMO at least) by far the prettiest deco on the original Datsun mold. It would get snapped up like crazy if Takara made it, whether in MP form or just a reissue.

Just speaking for myself, it's also one of two Autobot car schemes that I'm willing to pay import prices and online store gouging for without any qualms at all (the other being G2 Sideswipe...come on Takara, you're half-way there!). And I'm sure I'm far from the only one who salivates at the thought of it. But, I mean...they made Tigertrack, surely this deco can't be far behind. Right?

[Denyer]

Not sure the bootleggers will be much of a factor honestly. At least not with their current paradigm...the bootlegs are cheaper than buying from BBTS or other Western stores but not all that much cheaper than ordering directly from Asian sources, and with the QC issues we've seen on Sideswipe and Red Alert it'll be impossible for them to be passed off as the real thing.

I'd argue that -- bizarrely enough -- they aren't trying to pass off. With SW someone has sat down and mocked up the packaging in meticulous detail but left specific tells that it isn't the original. Incredible reconstruction considering they've remoulded the head -- and whilst there's more variability (or more willingness to sell the lower-QC ones, at least) we're seeing a small amount of that product online]these days third parties are trying to horn in on the Masterpiece market by producing picture-perfect reproductions of G1 character models [...] it'd be damn hard to make a Superman toy without using trademarked logos[/quote]
Yeah, that's the nub -- can't use trademarks or advertise with names that are too close, but legit new designs are difficult to touch directly.

They can have a go at distributors, but that's mostly over presentational association rather than embargoing them... TFSource might get into trouble for avoiding use of original names on homage listings but using official images in backgrounds and having a big button labelled "Custom Transformers", for example.

[Cliffjumper]

Bumblebee is a grey area, for sure.

As I say, I think they must have something squared with VW to put him so high up the batting order. I don't think they'd get away with a superdeformed Sunbow/Minibot alternate mode in this day and age without licencing; the Beetle is probably the most recognisable car in the world and the bonnet design is very prominent. If they were to go generic on him, we'd have Big Expensive Blinged Up Classics Bumblebee (or, if you want to be pessimistic, Alternity Bumblebee) and momentum would be lost, people would scale down on plans to get the lot... Binaltech all over again, basically.

The BT proposal to VW/Porsche was ten years ago. A lot has changed since, not least a multi-billion dollar film franchise with a major car manufacturer onboard. It's amazing how many more companies will hand out licences to what's now one of the biggest money-spinning franchises in the world rather than a moderately successful kids' line.

Cliffjumper, though? If he actually looked anything like his real-world alt-mode, he wouldn't be anything like Cliffjumper. I doubt they'd even think about licensing for him.

Yup, Cliffjumper makes me think we're going to have deformed alt modes and robots strongly modelled on Sunbow/Marvel, probably smaller than the likes of Prowl and Sideswipe (and hopefully cheaper, though I wouldn't rule out something mental like bundled Witwicky figurines). Unlike BT, they haven't hung their hat on the scale/size thing with MP and I suspect the emphasis will be on robot mode displays.

They'll be idiots if they don't think ahead with the Minibots and realise that if the line has legs they'll want to do them all in a similar style. I think a Sideswipe-sized Bumblebee that turns into a realistic Beetle would be as much of a fan-botherer as the aforementioned Bling Classics version. These things are selling to the G1 cartoon crowd first and foremost as there's more of them and they vote with their wallets.

Almost certainly an Artfire too, since Jazz wouldn't offer any redeco options besides Stepper. Takara would want to sell you the whole set.

D'oh, forgot Arty. Yeh - still amazed Takara went with Road Hauler back in '03, even if the TM tooling wasn't available.

I suspect Tigertrack was a cynical stab at getting people to buy a stand-in for Sunstreaker more than anything else.

Yeh, pretty much - hoping people would double-dip in case he was the only mould. Sunstreaker himself must surely be along fairly soon unless Lamborghini gave out a very generous licence.

MID-POST RESEARCH: Hah, Lamborghini are owned by the Volkswagen group (well, this week...). That nails the 'Bee licence, then - wonder if Sideswipe was a test to see if the German people would firebomb VW HQ in anger.

Another redeco they'd be crazy to pass up is a Blue Bluestreak deco of the Datsun mold. I'm still not sure why we never got a reissue or even the Universe mold in those colours, because that's by far the most popular variant Diaclone scheme amongst the fandom.

Mmmm; it'd probably be the most sensible way of getting a 'bonus' recolour out of the Datsun (the only other halfway reasonable option is plain silver Bluestreak).

Yet it's the one that has never, even once, been released as a transformer, right?

Universe Spychanger - the Side Swipe recolour.

Just saying, for what appears to be the nicest and semi-canon scheme, there hasn't been lots of attention by takara or hasbro.

No, but it being on the original box art does give it a certain cachet, not to mention the whole Blue Bluestreak thing. For most of the previous "opportunities" you've got to remember that standard Bluestreak got dicked over - the Anime version and the chrome version were only put out as eHobby exclusives (the only retail reissue was the Western Silverstreak, where they were aiming for the "just like you had it in 1984" market), for example.

Generally in the past Hasbro/Takara have been happy enough that any Prowl gave them Bluestreak and Smokescreen automatically, or whichever way it worked - three figures from one mould, no need for more. Chromestreak was an oddity but like Gold Jazz sold badly (sellers still had loads of both for years) and led to eHobby putting a bit more thought into their exclusives than "This is the guy you have in whacky colours!" (after him, everyone else was pitched as an original character). There hasn't been much need otherwise to do much with the mould.

Takara might very well be happy enough with the MP Datsun working triple-time as it is; however, Blue Bluestreak would be an option if they wanted a fourth.

[Warcry]

I'd argue that -- bizarrely enough -- they aren't trying to pass off. With SW someone has sat down and mocked up the packaging in meticulous detail but left specific tells that it isn't the original. Incredible reconstruction considering they've remoulded the head -- and whilst there's more variability (or more willingness to sell the lower-QC ones, at least) we're seeing a small amount of that product online; most of it likely isn't exported.

I guess that's possible, but if that's their goal I don't think it makes all that much sense. I mean, to me there are two possible goals when you bootleg something: passing it off as the real deal so you can defraud people out of what the real item is worth, or openly acknowledge that it's a fake but undercutting the original on price. Admitting it's a fake and charging about what the real thing goes for (before BBTS-gouging) doesn't make much sense to me. All they're doing is playing on scarcity, and now that Takara has picked up on the demand and started producing the things in greater numbers that window's probably about to slam shut on them.

Wandering back around to the question of this third party stuff affecting Takara... even if prices are not much less than or comparable, it shoots down an artificial scarcity angle and limits inflation, scope for buzz, etc. At any point someone can jump in and do their own unofficial reissue or variant.

That's a fair point, and I think it has effected Takara to some extent -- how many "second run" releases of different MPs have we seen in the last year or so? Starscream, Grimlock, Soundwave and Sideswipe have all gotten another batch produced this year, the latter two less than a year after the originals came out. I figure that's at least partly because the KOs showed them that they were leaving money on the table.

They can have a go at distributors, but that's mostly over presentational association rather than embargoing them... TFSource might get into trouble for avoiding use of original names on homage listings but using official images in backgrounds and having a big button labelled "Custom Transformers", for example.

From a legal perspective perhaps. But from a more practical standpoint? Eh. I've always been of the impression that Hasbro in particular could shut down most of the third-party scene in a lazy afternoon if they actually cared to, but they don't bother because there really wouldn't be any benefit to Hasbro to do so. It's not as if they're losing sales to 3P toys since most 3P buyers are already spending piles of cash on official merchandise anyway, and it's good PR to let the fans have their fun. As long as the third parties stay in that "only sort of violating Hasbro's IP" grey area, where's the benefit to shutting them down?

Hasbro and Takara could easily lean on the little guy in this situation the way they get leaned on by Walmart all the time ("Oh, you're selling third-party Transformers? Please stop that. In an unrelated story, your latest order of Generations and Masterpiece toys accidentally got shipped to Madagascar so you'll be getting them two months after your competitors."), but why do that if it's not actually going to benefit them?

As I say, I think they must have something squared with VW to put him so high up the batting order. I don't think they'd get away with a superdeformed Sunbow/Minibot alternate mode in this day and age without licencing; the Beetle is probably the most recognisable car in the world and the bonnet design is very prominent. If they were to go generic on him, we'd have Big Expensive Blinged Up Classics Bumblebee (or, if you want to be pessimistic, Alternity Bumblebee) and momentum would be lost, people would scale down on plans to get the lot... Binaltech all over again, basically.

Yeah, fair enough. If they were going to half-ass it, they would have left him for last. You're probably right about the design, too...the hood is the only thing really VWesque about cartoon Bumblebee, but it's so instantly recognizable that it'd be a grey area at best no matter what the rest looked like.

Yup, Cliffjumper makes me think we're going to have deformed alt modes and robots strongly modelled on Sunbow/Marvel, probably smaller than the likes of Prowl and Sideswipe (and hopefully cheaper, though I wouldn't rule out something mental like bundled Witwicky figurines). Unlike BT, they haven't hung their hat on the scale/size thing with MP and I suspect the emphasis will be on robot mode displays.

Robot mode scale is definitely what they're aiming for, since the two cars they've made so far apparently aren't even in scale with each other in alt-mode. Though that still doesn't say much, since in one shot Bumblebee would stand up to Prowl's chest and in the next he's barely up to his waist. So the Minibots would definitely be smaller, but how small? I'd hope he's not that much smaller than the regular cars. A Deluxe-sized MP car would have to be pretty special to stand out from the zillions of other Deluxe cars we get each year.

MID-POST RESEARCH: Hah, Lamborghini are owned by the Volkswagen group (well, this week...). That nails the 'Bee licence, then - wonder if Sideswipe was a test to see if the German people would firebomb VW HQ in anger.

Not necessarily...each company probably still has it's own licensing department. But it definitely makes it more likely.

Also, it probably helps a lot that cartoon Bumblebee doesn't carry any weapons, which IIRC was what killed the original Alternators proposal -- VW told them "no guns", they gave the prototype a gun anyway and VW told them to piss off. If they were really as keen on avoiding "war toys" then as it sounds like, the designers would have been about as likely to get VW approval as if they'd covered it in swastikas. It sounds like a silly complaint but the Beetle is a quintessential family car -- turning it into friendly, happy G1 Bumblebee is a much easier sell than turning it into a heavily-armed war machine.

Takara might very well be happy enough with the MP Datsun working triple-time as it is; however, Blue Bluestreak would be an option if they wanted a fourth.

Possibly. But if Tigertrack or G2 Sideswipe are popular enough to wind up on the right side of their "will enough people buy it?" line, I don't see how they could pass up the chance to do Blue Bluestreak. I might be wrong, but I think the deco is so storied that it would sell just as well as the cartoon-accurate one. I might be blinded by the fact that I really, really want one, though.

[Denyer]

Unlikely that Bumblebee's getting a gun, if they have got the license.

now that Takara has picked up on the demand and started producing the things in greater numbers that window's probably about to slam shut on them.

Be interesting to see what effect it has -- touting to foreigners on eBay aside, do we know what the price differential is locally?

I suspect there'll be more to come anyway, since copying is a deeply ingrained cultural attitude from consumer goods to academic publishing and the kind of dedicated town recreation that's hit Western press particularly over the last few years.

edit: Also, I don't mean to sound paranoid, but it wouldn't take much more effort to recreate things exactly to the point the tells were omitted.

Hasbro and Takara could easily lean on the little guy in this situation the way they get leaned on by Walmart all the time ("Oh, you're selling third-party Transformers? Please stop that. In an unrelated story, your latest order of Generations and Masterpiece toys accidentally got shipped to Madagascar so you'll be getting them two months after your competitors."),

Not really convinced that there's that much direct control over wholesaler distribution. And annual toy fairs are a courting exercise.

[Clay]

Fansproject Diesel in package

SOON.

[Denyer]

If I had any interest in Menasor, that's a very nice homage. The general trouble with the Stunticons, IMO, is that cars are very, very over-represented. As it stands the pricing can only be made to work for people that don't mind paying fifty quid apiece for limbs that aren't especially well differentiated from existing deluxes.

Larger figures it's easier to justify, and MMC show what's possible for essentially the same outlay as FP not-Headmasters.

[The Reverend]

I'm liking the look of Igear's suitably ugly "Shark"(ticon), but I don't need a three pack of them!

[glazios]

Fansproject Diesel in package

SOON.

That thing cannot get here fast enough. :P

Any word on the reasons as to why it's been delayed? FP's own websites are okay(ish) when it comes to new images of their stuff, but hopeless as information sources...

[Denyer]

Anyone dealt with http://www.omegalock.co.uk here? Went with them for Scoria, being a significantly better deal than Kapow.

[inflatable dalek]

Damn, I've just realised that as the Ironfist has been cancelled and I therefore won't be able to collect the entire LSotW cast anyway that makes me having bought that bloody terrible Impactor toy completely pointless.

[Clay]

TFC "Gumball", part of a new combiner called Prometheus, or not-Streetwise and not-Defensor.

Promising, but now they're soliciting a second gestalt group while still releasing unofficial Predacons. Sales must be slipping compared to Uranos given the two alternative sets for Predacons by other third party companies.

[Clay]

Masterpiece not-Swoop

[Denyer]

Probably rushed to market in light of the silhouette being shown with the Fans Toys Scoria...

http://www.tfw2005.com/boards/transform ... -slag.html

Might be interested.

Are Bullsfire a completely new player? I'm mainly chancing it with Fans Toys because Quakewave got such good feedback.

[Clay]

Are Bullsfire a completely new player?

I believe so, yeah. The BBTS item menu shows Swoop as the only item.

[Denyer]

not very enamoured of the Ramhorn and Steeljaw moulds that KFC have done, either.

The rhino really grows on you... got the lion as well ("retro" colours -- i.e. orange rather than yellow, more Stripes than Steeljaw) and it's not up to the same standard. Too much detail crammed in for the size and it becomes indistinct and fiddly.

[Clay]

Scoria (Slag) in color

He's pretty, I'll say that.