TF Universe Toys (Opinions)

[Cliffjumper]

Well, Classics 3.0/Universe 2.0 (or whatever) is due - my bet is they're spreading out the recognisable names.

[Jaynz]

i like all the universe toys, but i dont see why they couldnt make more fan favs like nightbeat, bludgeon,shockwave, wheeljack, jazz, maybe even a carnivac would be nice. (and i would like a re-issue of the likes of countdown and groundshaker)

A 'fan favorite' is a bit debatable anyway. A lot of the oldest 'fans' left Transformers once the original movie came out. They'll not even know who Carnivac, Bludgeon, or even Nightbeat are going to be. There are only so many Transformers with real long-term recongition, and they've ALREADY been homaged to death.

As for the fans that ARE that old, how many of them really are there? Will they justify the expense for making a toy that may or may not appeal to the larger crowd of customers so Hasbro/Takara can actually make money? Nightbeat and Bludgeon appeal to a VERY limited number of fans after all.. will Little Billy care when he sees it on the peg?

A lot of people miss Sideburn, for instance, but that was a popular show ten years ago now and he hasn't made a major apperance since. Does it make sense for Hasbro to 'homage' that character as a selling point on its own right.. does it really have that appeal?

Yes, the easily-said answer is 'make an homage toy with new appeal'! But we all know how hit and miss that's really going to be.

[kupimus aka(clocker)]

everything you say is true, but a lot of these charcters are still mentioned as tpb's of older comics are published. also the universe line has made a big powerglide toy and hes hardly well known, not to mention acid storm.

so okay maybe not carnivac, but bludgeon and nightbeat are pretty well known and i think these are the last two well known characters that havent been homaged as far as bludgeon with a pretender shell and a good reasonably accurate nightbeat.

i know what your saying about hasbro/takara not being able to make enough money on these characters, but i still hope.

[Jaynz]

everything you say is true, but a lot of these charcters are still mentioned as tpb's of older comics are published. also the universe line has made a big powerglide toy and hes hardly well known, not to mention acid storm.

You do realize that the number of copies sold for each TF comic right now is embarassingly low, right? Even if every last person who buys the comic buys every last 'character' shown in each issue... you're still not amounting to much on Hasbro's toy scale.

so okay maybe not carnivac, but bludgeon and nightbeat are pretty well known and i think these are the last two well known characters that havent been homaged as far as bludgeon with a pretender shell and a good reasonably accurate nightbeat.

Bludgeon was also tied in as a movie toy, and has a 'cool' factor for its design. Most the kiddies who buy him won't have any connection to his role in the later days of the G1 comic, or his death in the G2 comic.

Nightbeat's fan-club toy was.. well.. for the fan-club. The scout-class toy is pretty much just line filler with a bone for fans, but it's not exactly a toy most kids are clamouring for.

i know what your saying about hasbro/takara not being able to make enough money on these characters, but i still hope.

I'm just saying that name recognition alone isn't going to pull past a few characters, particularly the farther back you go. Either you have a new cartoon (or movie) to put the names and characters back in kids' minds, or you have damn cool toys that kids have to get when they see them. Character homages alone aren't going to matter when the vast majority of the market has no clue who they are.

[kupimus aka(clocker)]

cant argue with anything you said, your right.

well, maybe like cliffjumper said, the new releases in the universe line will give us some cool obscure characters

[Cliffjumper]

Let's be honest, ROTF Bludgeon is Universe Bludgeon, much in the same way Movie Big Daddy/Crasher/Crankcase/Breakaway were Classics figures that were just packaged in Movie stuff because that was what Hasbro were doing at the time. At best for Universe now Bludgeon might get a slight redeco as a late line filler.

Nightbeat will probably only happen if there's someone similar in a future line that can be recoloured (or maybe slightly retooled) - Jazz, maybe (my personal hunch is that Jazz has been saved up as a big name, and to give a bit of space to the Movie and Animated versions; reckon Wheeljack's also been saved up as one of the few others very many people remember). The ROTF Scout seems to be an exercise in trademark retention, which the fanboys who seemingly choose this sort of thing ran with ("Okay, he's going to be called Nightbeat, let's make him blue with the paint apps done in gold/yellow").

Acidstorm only happened because Hasbro misjudged the popularity of Classics/Universe and let the fanclub have Thundercracker/Dirge/Thrust, and for legal or PR reasons didn't want to take them back, and wanted a recolour of the F-15.

I think under a certain level, it doesn't matter whether the name is arbitrarily made up or a second/third stringer - I suspect most people who bought the figure couldn't tell you which one of Stormcloud or Acidstorm is based on an old toy. The use of old elements 1) gives the design team a good starting point 2) gives a good central thrust to a non-fiction line 3) hooks in the small nostalgia market, which you might as well have if you can 4) keeps those trademarks going in case there's a Transformers 3 Astrotrain coming and 5) is good PR. It shouldn't be forgotten that 90%+ of sales of the line will be made to people who weren't born when the original figures were made

[kupimus aka(clocker)]

if they made a brand new mould of a deluxe-sized nightbeat(or anyone really), how many would they have to sell to get there money back?

[Jaynz]

if they made a brand new mould of a deluxe-sized nightbeat(or anyone really), how many would they have to sell to get there money back?

It's not a fixed number, since it depends on the complexity of the toy, the actual price point, trade rates with China, etc... but, generally speaking, to make a modest profit on a toy that's at the Deluxe price point in retail stores, you're talking several thousands of units to overcome initial costs.

[Prowl1984]

Anyone happen to know the release dates for new universe toys?

[Warcry]

As for the fans that ARE that old, how many of them really are there? Will they justify the expense for making a toy that may or may not appeal to the larger crowd of customers so Hasbro/Takara can actually make money? Nightbeat and Bludgeon appeal to a VERY limited number of fans after all.. will Little Billy care when he sees it on the peg?

If you're lucky enough to have the latest wave of Movie toys available in your area, you can walk into a store and buy a new-mold G1 homage Bludgeon right now. The fact that it's under the movie banner is totally irrelevant since he didn't appear on-screen -- the offscreen toys from Movie 1 were hardly a roaring success. So obviously, Hasbro thinks they can sell the character and the design on its' own merits.

A lot of people miss Sideburn, for instance, but that was a popular show ten years ago now and he hasn't made a major apperance since. Does it make sense for Hasbro to 'homage' that character as a selling point on its own right.. does it really have that appeal?

I would say it has at least as much appeal as legendary characters such as Onslaught, Silverbolt, Octane, Powerglide, Hot Shot, Cosmos, Sunstreaker, Cheetor and Hound...all of whom were all given new-mold toys in the 2008 Universe line.

I'm not trying to say that new-mold toys of guys like Nightbeat or Sideburn or whoever are a sure thing, but I think it's more than a little silly for you to just dismiss the idea out of hand. If Hasbro didn't think they could sell new-mold toys designed to resemble second- or third-string G1 characters, the '08 Universe line never would have existed and they certainly wouldn't be planning a third instalment.