Transformers: Combiner Wars

Comics, cartoons, movies and fan stuff.
User avatar
Unicron
Posts: 2457
Joined: Wed Dec 20, 2000 5:00 am

Post by Unicron »

Knightdramon wrote:Overall, political scene is returned but it's nothing extreme. And Starscream's "chosen" status is still...hmmm what? And why is Scoop still following that guy?
Why? Because effectively his religion tells him to. Tends to be a hard thing to go against
User avatar
Terome
Posts: 1431
Joined: Wed Jan 24, 2007 4:16 pm
Location: Brighton

Post by Terome »

Okay! I've got a better handle on it all now. It was fine. The script did not play to Livio's strengths. Laid lots of pipe, had a funny citizen journalism framing device, tread some water on the Lady of Flame and whatnot... I liked that there is some mild public concern over Monstructor and that nobody knows how to deal with a two-man press industry.

Makes sense that Rattrap is leaving a sinking ship - he's cynical but the secret prisons and superweapons are making him nervous. I like the idea that Prowl is being a baddie to stop the Decepticons but it's not handled very gracefully.

Scoop has evened out a bit in my eyes. He didn't work as a religious fanatic. The initial Flanders salt-of-the-earth approach was much more interesting. This is sort of a middle ground. He is being asked to swallow bitter pill after bitter pill and that's amusing at least.
I would wholeheartedly recommend
---Original Crossed Series. Ten parter [00-09].
---Wish you were here [4 volumes] webcomic. I think it is still available for free online. Absolutely amazing and hours of good reading.
---Various bits and pieces of the Badlands series. Can find a list of all the recommended ones later on. Very mixed quality throughout the series, but some real gems in there.
That is very helpful. There's so much of it that I was quite intimidated and stuck as to where to begin. Just from the covers I was turned off on the series as it seemed to be a descent into self-parody for Ennis - putting the gross-out stuff right at the forefront rather than using it for punctuation. Time for me to catch up.
User avatar
inflatable dalek
Posts: 24000
Joined: Sat Apr 03, 2004 3:15 pm
Location: Kidderminster UK

Post by inflatable dalek »

I think the place it faltered was with the TV crew angle. Many a good "Special Episode" has been done from the POV of a camera crew, but this was only intermittent and it was a bit odd, consisting of Circuit asking questions that briefly made the recipient look a bit shifty before they gave a mostly honest answer.

I'm still not sure why this is two separate series, is anyone insane enough to just be buying Windblade?
REVIISITATION: THE HOLE TRUTH
STARSCREAM GOES TO PIECES IN MY LOOK AT INFILTRATION #6!
PLUS: BUY THE BOOKS!
User avatar
Terome
Posts: 1431
Joined: Wed Jan 24, 2007 4:16 pm
Location: Brighton

Post by Terome »

That's a good point, actually. It could have been far more effective it was all The Circuit & Longtooth Show. But then I suppose we wouldn't have the introduction and epilogue and that bit where Prime talks to Silverbolt / Superion in confidence - which was a neat bit.

Feels like an idea that could have been saved for later.

Windblade is the focal point to draw in those floating Tumblr new fans. I've no idea how effective that strategy is but I presume that it why she gets a book to herself that is basically every other issue of another series. I'm genuinely curious to know whether this is a good way to start a series or a good way to cripple it from the get-go.
User avatar
inflatable dalek
Posts: 24000
Joined: Sat Apr 03, 2004 3:15 pm
Location: Kidderminster UK

Post by inflatable dalek »

I think it's the sort of thing that works better Dark Cybertron style where it's two ongoing books, but doing a crossover between a regular series and a four issue mini where you can't read the later in isolation anyway seems oddly one sided. I doubt anyone is reading just the one book and it presumably will just be collected in one trade. It would have made more sense to just do a separate 8 ? I'm not actually sure how long this is, but I guess RID isn't doing more issues of it than Windblade?) issue series between the two authors (or just make RID bimonthly for the duration) and give Windblade a proper sequel series to her own adventures.
REVIISITATION: THE HOLE TRUTH
STARSCREAM GOES TO PIECES IN MY LOOK AT INFILTRATION #6!
PLUS: BUY THE BOOKS!
User avatar
tahukanuva
Posts: 1587
Joined: Wed Jul 27, 2005 2:48 am
Custom Title: Human After All
Location: Kentucky, US

Post by tahukanuva »

IIRC Windblade's an ongoing this time, actually. I think they're just kicking it off with the crossover.
User avatar
Terome
Posts: 1431
Joined: Wed Jan 24, 2007 4:16 pm
Location: Brighton

Post by Terome »

Oh dear. The wheels came off.
User avatar
inflatable dalek
Posts: 24000
Joined: Sat Apr 03, 2004 3:15 pm
Location: Kidderminster UK

Windblade 2: Combiner Wars 3.

Post by inflatable dalek »

Well, Terome dropped a hint in the thread on the previous issue...

This really wasn't very good on any level. First up, and easiest to articulate, the art continued to be poor by Livio's standards and looked very rushed. It was made worse by the colouring not being sympathetic this week (and they seem to have gone to the effort to have photoshopped the new Protectobot into a couple of panels but not to do anything about Grotusque and Mainframe. How can Livio not know who the Protectobots are at this point?).

The big problem was Prowlestator doing what Prowlestator does, draining anything remotely subtle or interesting out of a story and making it about a stupid big monster going "RAAAAH".

It doesn't help that, as always, combiners don't really work in the static medium of comics and it's now very clear that every combiner fight in this story is basically going to be exactly the same.

Boo.
REVIISITATION: THE HOLE TRUTH
STARSCREAM GOES TO PIECES IN MY LOOK AT INFILTRATION #6!
PLUS: BUY THE BOOKS!
User avatar
Terome
Posts: 1431
Joined: Wed Jan 24, 2007 4:16 pm
Location: Brighton

Post by Terome »

Yeah, it's not great news when the most interesting thing about a comic is the idea that Prime might get a tie-breaker vote on a council.

Good call on how poor comics are at Big Robot Fights. There is no difference between two humans having a scrap, two car-sized Transformers having a tussle and two gestalts having a throw-down.

The art mistakes are the least of it, really. Something like this was bound to happen. The rushed and tossed-off quality of the issue as a whole is a bit depressing - someone like Scott or Milne would be without a paycheque for a month to get this first draft to the stands on time. For years we've been told how good and rewarding the relationship between Hasbro has been. But what kind of relationship means these kind of compromises need to be made to please one party at the expense of another? I know whenever a friend of mine makes me a couple of thousand dollars by using some of my things I always stand on their neck and force them to make a few thousand more by this Summer or else.
That said, IDW and Hasbro did just do a renewal of vows lately, didn't they? I wonder if IDW was going out of its way to be a lickspittle to score that contract. I have the impression that this whole Combiner Wars business was done and dusted a year ago or more.

It's not all Evil Hasbro's fault, of course. How long has Prowlestator been around now? Two years? Has anything interesting or even dramatic come out of that idea? If you squint there's a metaphor in there about ignoring red flags from a friend who is unwell but you have to sift through the boring morass to find it.
User avatar
Unicron
Posts: 2457
Joined: Wed Dec 20, 2000 5:00 am

Post by Unicron »

inflatable dalek wrote: but not to do anything about Grotusque and Mainframe. How can Livio not know who the Protectobots are at this point?)
According to Livio, Grotusque and Mainframe were the reference art or whatever he was given for those two Protectobots.
I'm not sure which is worse: that someone at IDW screwed when giving him reference material or that Livio didn't double check
User avatar
Red Dave Prime
Posts: 1340
Joined: Fri Jul 27, 2007 11:03 pm
Location: Ireland

Post by Red Dave Prime »

Just not a good issue. It feels like theres two things going on here - theres an interesting idea on what happens when the two cultures collide after so long and far apart and then theres the need to have the big monsters smash. Its not gelling and I wish that the other plotline was saved for a regular comic run so it could be done better because I do kinda like whats going on in it. But Starscreams plan is making no real sense from the start - Caminus wants to join up with Cybertron for help. He didnt need to create a false crisis. And the enigma is a pretty stupid contraption (and has felt that way since first introduced). There's no real sense as to how or why it should work or exsist. Its up there with the magnificence for silliness.

Anyway, as Megatron proved, you just need to let five cybertronians wander in the wilderness for a while. After a little scuffle - BOOM - instant gestalt.
User avatar
zigzagger
Posts: 3453
Joined: Wed Oct 25, 2006 12:40 am

Post by zigzagger »

I haven't been following too closely, but curiosity got the best of me, if only for the prospect of some Protectobot action. Not that I was at all surprised, but god-****ing-dammit, what a gross misuse of them :(

Disappointed, oh hell yes, but not surprised. Not winning me over, Combiner Wars. Not winning me over.

As for the rest of the issue.... yeeeeaah, I don't think so.

On the plus side, I did catch the extended bios for the CW Protectobots on TFW, or wherever the hell, and those made me smile.
User avatar
inflatable dalek
Posts: 24000
Joined: Sat Apr 03, 2004 3:15 pm
Location: Kidderminster UK

Post by inflatable dalek »

Terome wrote: Good call on how poor comics are at Big Robot Fights. There is no difference between two humans having a scrap, two car-sized Transformers having a tussle and two gestalts having a throw-down.
Yeah, this is almost the perfect counterpoint to Cliffy's claim that comic's can do anything. With film or TV you can pan and move the camera; plus have a lot more shots than a comic can have panels. Unless every page is a splash a comic just can't pull off scale to the same effect.
The art mistakes are the least of it, really.
Though they are pandemic of the issues. I mean, as well as the artist not recongnising he'd been sent the wrong reference material (I thought Livio was a fan turned pro, this suggests otherwise), it passed two editors and Hasbro who presumably check to make sure the pack in comics at least slightly feature the toy they're with.

And we know from Roberts that the pack in issue is finished and ready to go ages before the street version (hence the pack in version of 22 having different dialogue for Brainstorm at one point, Roberts decided it gave away what he was really up to and changed it for the "Main" release) and still no one tried to fix it for this.

As Unicron says, it's hard to tell which of those is worse.

Unicron wrote:According to Livio, Grotusque and Mainframe were the reference art or whatever he was given for those two Protectobots.
Still, there's the next round of Combiner War repaints.
zigzagger wrote: On the plus side, I did catch the extended bios for the CW Protectobots on TFW, or wherever the hell, and those made me smile.
The ones written from Rung's POV? Not read any myself yet but that does sound a nice touch.

So what was that random Sunstreaker cameo all about?

And Christ's sake Chromia, the number one rule of being forgiven for murder is you can't keep banging on about how terrible everyone else is.
REVIISITATION: THE HOLE TRUTH
STARSCREAM GOES TO PIECES IN MY LOOK AT INFILTRATION #6!
PLUS: BUY THE BOOKS!
User avatar
inflatable dalek
Posts: 24000
Joined: Sat Apr 03, 2004 3:15 pm
Location: Kidderminster UK

Transformers #41: Combiner Wars 4.

Post by inflatable dalek »

Hmm, well that seems to have picked up a bit, the political stuff Barber does better is more to the forefront and Livio's art looks like he had a bit more time to get it together (not having to draw indervidual Protectobots probably helped) and one eyed Prowl is creepy....






Den dat ending.









I suppose it was inevitable (I did wonder at the totally random Sunstreaker appearance earlier, but assumed they were just putting the pieces in place for later) but...

Well, it made me laugh if nothing else.
REVIISITATION: THE HOLE TRUTH
STARSCREAM GOES TO PIECES IN MY LOOK AT INFILTRATION #6!
PLUS: BUY THE BOOKS!
User avatar
Terome
Posts: 1431
Joined: Wed Jan 24, 2007 4:16 pm
Location: Brighton

Post by Terome »

I dunno - there was some neat stuff in here. I thought the integration of Scoop into Devastator in order to give him a religious awe of Starscream was quite clever and the way the Prowl/Optimus conflict is coming to a head with the two of them literally sharing a mind is interesting. Same on the Ironhide/Mirage/Sunstreaker visionquest thing. Lots of neat touches.

Like Wheeljack says, it's an intellectual puzzle. I'm starting to think that it isn't Hasbro breathing down IDW's neck that is setting the story beats here, it's Barber's love of playing with forgotten story beats. I mean, how reference-heavy is this issue? It's throwing nine years of convoluted IDW trivia at us so that dots can be connected... combined, if you will.

And call me old-fashioned but I like Moore gimmicks like 'not quite your colour / show their true colours.'

Still, it's less than the sum of its parts. Which is a shame!
User avatar
inflatable dalek
Posts: 24000
Joined: Sat Apr 03, 2004 3:15 pm
Location: Kidderminster UK

Post by inflatable dalek »

Yeah, the continuity stuff was reasonably done for Barber, it's just the arrival of Energon Prime at the end just felt very silly.

I don't mind Scoop becoming a Constructicon, and wouldn't be totally surprised if he's renamed "Scrapper" in the pack-in version.

I wonder if the surprise villain sending out all these visions will turn out to be Mike Costa?
REVIISITATION: THE HOLE TRUTH
STARSCREAM GOES TO PIECES IN MY LOOK AT INFILTRATION #6!
PLUS: BUY THE BOOKS!
User avatar
Red Dave Prime
Posts: 1340
Joined: Fri Jul 27, 2007 11:03 pm
Location: Ireland

Post by Red Dave Prime »

Just not getting the last few issues of RID in terms of an overall scheme. To be honest, since Dark Cybertron I have felt the series has lost some of its identity in a way. Its not badly written, just it seems to be very all over the place in terms of what the big picture is. Or something. It might just be that I don't enjoy some of the angles taken.

Hate the unrealistic, near cartoon earth approach.

Don't like the "religious" mystical stuff being actually real. I prefer it to be myth based on reality - the enigma of combination kinda shits on that.

Bored silly by gestalts as the next big danger. Its not a bad idea by itself but how many times has IDW done this?

I'll be honest, I really wanted to like Windblade but I just don't like the character. She is boring as hell and I have no idea as to why she gets a title named after her. I like the Caminus idea all right, and having different races of cybertronians taking different paths of evolution is a cool idea for transformers, but Windblade doesn't engage me at all.

Also... On second thoughs, lets not go to Caminus. Tis a silly place. Really, if your going to introduce a new world, effectively a new species of TF... Just not Caminus.

So yeah. Not liking this much at all.
User avatar
inflatable dalek
Posts: 24000
Joined: Sat Apr 03, 2004 3:15 pm
Location: Kidderminster UK

Transformers Windblade Combine Harvester Wars 3. Or 5. Or Whatever...

Post by inflatable dalek »

Interestingly my first reaction on reading this was that it was fairly OK, I especially liked the inner mind stuff between Prowl and Prime.

But...

The more I think on it the more rubbish it feels. It's really not a comic to remotely give any thought on or it all falls apart.

And, as Terome pointed out to me on Facebook (yes, we have private conversations where you can't see them. Oh the things he says about Warcry) it basically ends in the same way as the first Windblade mini-series with everyone having to sort of reluctantly accept the peace as it's better than war.

That coupled with the fact this opening has been a massive "**** off" to anyone that might want to give Windblade a try but doesn't read ex-RID could well kill off the momentum and good will the first series built up. That'd be a shame. Though I'm still not sure if this is now an ongoing or if they're just doing a handful more issues so there's some second Windblade that can actually be read as a story in its own right.
REVIISITATION: THE HOLE TRUTH
STARSCREAM GOES TO PIECES IN MY LOOK AT INFILTRATION #6!
PLUS: BUY THE BOOKS!
User avatar
Selkadoom
Posts: 617
Joined: Wed Aug 05, 2009 1:53 am
Location: California and indifferent about it

Post by Selkadoom »

I'll admit that the issue itself was rather weak but it was nice to see all the different colony worlds in the ending, as well as the first time We've seen G1 Elita one in forever, and we welcome her back as she sits on an Iron Throne of transformer corpses . so, fun times ahead y'all, though Personally I am rather annoyed that it seems they're possibly gearing up to push Starscream out of his leadership role what with Swindle talking to Rattrap briefly before dying
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

PSN ID: Selkadoom13
Steam: Scruffy.j2
User avatar
Terome
Posts: 1431
Joined: Wed Jan 24, 2007 4:16 pm
Location: Brighton

Post by Terome »

Warcry is the best!

I am actually having trouble recalling what happened in this issue. Swindle died in an unconvincing way and we had some cameos. Can I just take a second to flag up how much I hate the Ongoing Comic Series trope of presenting a splash page of a returning character in a way that presumes we give the slightest shit about them? It drives me up the wall. Especially in this case where we don't know Elita-One from Adam except through other entities that happen to share her name but are obviously completely different to this version. It reads like:

*page turn*
Dun-DUN-DUUUUNNNN
A baddie!

Fantastic, we have lots of baddies. Add her to the pile. This baddie's really bad though, she sits on a throne of dead people. Though that actually puts her somewhere in the middle of the bell curve of the badness made up of guys like Pharma, Overlord and even plain ol' Megatron.

Only interesting bit to me was Superion getting bummed out that Prime's contractual obligation to combine with Prowl & Sundry had expired. The emotional aspect of combining is kind of intriguing - a shame they went with the angle of these guys being WMDs in a bloodless 'war story' when they open up much subtler story possibilities. That said, the Prime / Prowl resolution was a bit simplistic. Why on earth is Prime surprised that Prowl sees the world in 'numbers and figures' when that has been Prowl's entire deal for as long as they have known each other? Surely that's the entire reason why Prowl is Prime's right-hand guy?

Anyhow, Elita's spaceship looked cool (is it still carrying its hot spot?) and it will be fun to have Tigatron and Airrazor in the mix. I'm already preparing myself to be at peace with whatever tortured logic they will use to have them resemble chordates extant on Earth.
Post Reply