Rewatching Beast Wars for the first time in years...

[Terome]

After all is said and done, the enduring irritant of Beast Machines for me was the fact that it was a series about nature written by people who didn't know the first thing about what nature is.

[inflatable dalek]

After all is said and done, the enduring irritant of Beast Machines for me was the fact that it was a series about nature written by people who didn't know the first thing about what nature is.

Ah, the Star Trek Insurection factor (a film written by someone who has never spent a day working on a farm in his life. Sure, it can be a fully rewarding job if being with nature is your bag, but the idea that doing it for a living is a relaxed zen thing rather than bloody hard work that can be just as stressful as any other job is just moronic).

As with Avatar, science fiction that uses really advanced and expensive technology to tell us that real happiness comes from getting back to nature is always sending out a bit of a mixed message.

[Knightdramon]

I always thought that at this point fans would be more open to Beast Machines. The unique designs have been replicated with the movies for years now, fans were always craving for more "mature" stories and about a story with no humans and set on Cybertron.

It has its flaws, but I still regard it as one of the best TV Transformers fiction.

The soundtrack can be a tad irritating at times as a product of the 90ies, but then again, BW had those annoying guitar riffs as well at various points.

Plus, mad points for being the first, and so far only, series that had a Prime [or equivalent, at least] with no antenas, no mouthplate, no chest windows and no iconic red/blue/white colour scheme.

[Skyquake87]

I always thought that at this point fans would be more open to Beast Machines. The unique designs have been replicated with the movies for years now, fans were always craving for more "mature" stories and about a story with no humans and set on Cybertron.

I think Beast Machines is a case in point of being careful what you wish for..

I like it, Its just not as snappy and fun as Beast Wars. I remember watching the talking heads extras on the US box set and being surprised that the brief from Hasbro was for a more serious and spiritual series, a very unusual thing for a toyline - especially one about big fighting robots.

[Knightdramon]

Beast Wars, I believe, crossed the fun and witty line into S3 where lots of juvenile humour and scenes appeared after Optimal Optimus was introduced.

The high for BW was and always will be, for me, S2. The opening, code of hero, transmutate, protoform X and the finale are some of the best episodes of the series or arguably, the franchise.

[Jaynz]

I always thought that at this point fans would be more open to Beast Machines. The unique designs have been replicated with the movies for years now, fans were always craving for more "mature" stories and about a story with no humans and set on Cybertron.

But we DIDN'T get more 'mature', we got 'emo'. And, as I wrote about at length, we got two years of stores where none of the cast mattered to the main plot. This is to say nothing that the 'moral' of the show was basically that it was wrong to be a robot or to even like them in the first place...

Plus, mad points for being the first, and so far only, series that had a Prime [or equivalent, at least] with no antenas, no mouthplate, no chest windows and no iconic red/blue/white colour scheme.

Er... Rodimus would like a chat with you... as would Cerebros...

[Skywarp the Seeker]

But we DIDN'T get more 'mature', we got 'emo'. And, as I wrote about at length, we got two years of stores where none of the cast mattered to the main plot. This is to say nothing that the 'moral' of the show was basically that it was wrong to be a robot or to even like them in the first place...



Er... Rodimus would like a chat with you... as would Cerebros...

As far as "emo" is concerned, you've reminded me of another betrayal of BW characterization that's driving me mad.

Optimus is a wuss.

Silently staring in disbelief when Cheetor takes command, then saying "You removed me from command back there" isn't what BW Optimus would have done. I'm not saying characters can't change over time, becoming someone different by the end of a series. But when that arc is done well, it happens so subtly you almost don't notice it. Abruptly doesn't work.

Prime in BW was tough, but fair. If you overstepped your bounds, he let you know, firmly, possibly even by exploding on you. Not this wishy-washy "you think we really need two leaders?" protest. If a Maximal pulled this crap in BW, Optimus would have shouted at them for insubordination, and threatened punishment. Optimal Optimus may have even lifted the offender off the ground with one hand, got in his face and made a firm warning in no uncertain terms, finished with "Is that understood?" and given him that famous Primal stink eye to drive the point home. And that Maximal on the receiving end would have to gulp down the spark in his throat.

I don't know who this BM Primal is, but he's not worthy to carry the moniker "Optimus." He brings shame to it, really. Much more so than Silver Pickle/Sub Sandwich in Tinfoil/Hot Pocket Sleeve/whatever you want to call him does to the name "Megatron."

[inflatable dalek]

I think that's the problem, it's not character evolution, they just start Beast Machines as (for the most part) completely different characters with no journey from A to B.

[Skyquake87]

If we're being charitable,which i am,the show does offer some explanation as to why everyone is so different-the technovirus and reformat/overwrite by the oracle to further its agenda...optimus has had the equivalent of a lot of mind expanding lsd :-)

[Knightdramon]

But we DIDN'T get more 'mature', we got 'emo'. And, as I wrote about at length, we got two years of stores where none of the cast mattered to the main plot. This is to say nothing that the 'moral' of the show was basically that it was wrong to be a robot or to even like them in the first place...



Er... Rodimus would like a chat with you... as would Cerebros...

Hmmm, it's been a couple of years since I last watched BM, but wasn't the show about Megatron infecting the entire population with a virus, stripping them of their sparks, melting down their bodies to make new armies and trying to strip the organic elements from his own body?

Sure you could say that Primal got a bit more emo after the revelations he went through, but then again, we got a [good guy] leader who basically got the info dump that changed the views of his race forever trying to implement on that in ways he wasn't even sure of at first.

Now that's more of a mature angle with some emo subtleties than an emo angle, surely?

As for how the cast matters into the plot, with few exceptions, the same could be said for all TF series. It's always about Megatron doing something bad and the Autobots moving in re-action to that. I believe Cheetor, Rhinox, Silverbolt and even Primal and Megatron mattered a lot to the plot in various ways.

I can give you Rodimus, but Cerebro not so much. Yeah he was the leader, but not a "Prime" figure or descendant.

[Terome]

There are fine ideas buzzing around in Beast Machines. I actually quite like the idea of the characters changing quite suddenly - they're in a totally different situation and people are capable of being many characters in their life.

It's just such a chore to watch and the poor execution of those good ideas is kind of frustrating. It's the opposite of Prime, which has no good ideas but pulls them off quite competently with what is usually the right amount of action.

[Skywarp the Seeker]

Well, finished the series. While I'm glad that I powered through it, I'll probably never be compelled to ever watch it again. It has some interesting ideas, but the execution is wanting. There's a whitewashed blandness to it, which fits with the theme of technological homogeneousness, but it doesn't make for compelling TV.

Anyway, with G1, BW and BM under my belt (pardon the pun on the latter), any recommendations for which series I should tackle next? Thanks!

[Jaynz]

Well, finished the series. While I'm glad that I powered through it, I'll probably never be compelled to ever watch it again. It has some interesting ideas, but the execution is wanting. There's a whitewashed blandness to it, which fits with the theme of technological homogeneousness, but it doesn't make for compelling TV.

Anyway, with G1, BW and BM under my belt (pardon the pun on the latter), any recommendations for which series I should tackle next? Thanks!

Wow, gets a little harder to recommend shows after that. So I'll try to go through the rest and let you choose:

Headmasters: Japan's follow-up to G1, with some strong bits but really takes the worst elements of Season 3 and just runs with them. A lot of the show comes out to be utter rubbish, even in the most 'dramatic' bits. Probably worth seeing once just to see what the initial fuss was about, but probably NOT worth keeping in a collection unless you're completest.

Masterforce: On its own, this isn't too bad of an anime, if a little 'traditional' in most respects. Not great, but steps up from Headmasters. You can seriously tell that Japan wasn't up to writing stories where the ROBOTS were the main characters, and it shows here.

Victory: Strongest of the G1 Japanese series (though that's a low bar) with 'decent' outweighing 'utter crap' for the most part. After watching it, though, you'll understand why Star Saber is Japan's 'Second Place Convoy' all the time. If you're only going to get one Japanese series, this one's it.

BWII: Japan's follow-up to Beast Wars and it isn't too bad, and certainly a lot better than their dub of Beast Wars Metals. A little bit kiddie and cliché at points, particularly with the voice acting, but probably worth watching just to see how much TF:Prime 'accidentally' wound up lifting.

BWNeo: About the same as BWII. If you're getting BWII then there's no reason not to get this one. There's a bit more 'comic relief' in this one than even in BWII, though it does kinda round-out the Beast Wars saga rather nicely.

Robots in Disguise: Often called the 'antidote' for Beast Machines, this one's pretty light, silly fare. The show does NOT hold up well, though, as the voice acting is atrocious and even though the writing can be decent at times it's saddled heavily by being too reminiscent of a bad Godzilla dub. A few strong and amusing characters (Sky-Byte, anyone) may keep you entertained.

Armada: The first part of the Unicron Trilogy is also the worst. Badly written, badly paced, worst of all the human casts, and even the best of the voice actors (David Kaye) seem really bored within a few episodes. If "Carnage in C Minor" was made into a 50 episode series, this is pretty much what you would get. Otherwise, a decent new take on Starscream is the only thing to really recommend this one.

Energon: A much-needed step-up from Armada but still suffers from a lazy dub and lots of 'Takara interference' in the writing. Good ideas (such as Scorponok and Alpha Q) are often utterly ruined by just insanely bad plot decisions and the need to make room for toy changes and upgrades. Okay, but not worth going out of your way for.

Cybertron: The last part of the 'trilogy' which could have saved it all, but fell flat due to, again, lazy writing and a bad dub (though not nearly as bad as the previous two series). The plot plays out far too much like a rehash and slightly-better executed Armada. If you've made it through Armada and Energon, might as well finish it up, but there's nothing heavy to recommend it.

Animated: You're probably familiar with this one, which is a lighter take on Transformers with very strong writing and voice acting, but poor to bad art and animation. Many great characters, witty dialog, and a plot that actually moves along in a somewhat sensible manner. Highly recommend if you can get the whole thing. (Season 3 is in legal limbo for Americans, sadly.)

Prime: The show that just ended on The Hub. Decent modern CGI, very good characterizations and many, many cool moments. Meta-plot writing, however, is terrible and there are several episodes where you're left feeling 'what, we're doing this again?'. A good show overall, but never really fulfills its promise.

Hope this helps!

[Skywarp the Seeker]

It does, thanks a bunch!