Dark of the Moon Feedback and Reviews: Spoilers Ahoy.

[xXRorgasmXx]

Wheeljack?!?

Er, sorry... ¿¡¿Que?!?

im not wheeljack or que im just very confused at your coment lol

[xXRorgasmXx]

sorry to hog up this thread im quite enjoying this forum stuff lol another annoying thing about the movie was the name changes and underuse of shockwave and those dread con things how easily could someone have used the name predacons its a genuin transformer team for 1 and thats what i thought right away animalistic decepticons even based around the predators look and what do we get dread cons *facepalm* someone didnt do their homework when naming these transformers lol

[Shrapnel]

My problem isn't so much with the missed scene itself but that the situation felt like it had dropped in from another continuity considering both sides have been incredibly pragmatic and war-like in the films so far. It's difficult to see how the Autobots would have been out-fought without being killed, or at least severely injured - maybe a "surrender or we'll kill [specified bunch of innocent humans] we have at gunpoint", but there was no sign of any of that...

It is true that this whole business is out of character for any of the characters in the film. Unless explicitly ordered to do so I cannot see the Decepticons taking prisoners and, indeed, the generally slightly loony Autobots in the continuity would not give up, especially Bumblo and Sideswipe. So even if the absence of Prime and the Wreckers presented them with insurmountable numbers, one can't see them giving up.

This whole section could do with explaining, I am willing to bet there is probably an answer on the editing room floor.

As you rightly point out elsewhere, that Que prick might have surrendered. However, I am prepared to sidestep his existence on the whole and pretend it didn't happen.

[xXRorgasmXx]

It is true that this whole business is out of character for any of the characters in the film. Unless explicitly ordered to do so I cannot see the Decepticons taking prisoners and, indeed, the generally slightly loony Autobots in the continuity would not give up, especially Bumblo and Sideswipe. So even if the absence of Prime and the Wreckers presented them with insurmountable numbers, one can't see them giving up.

This whole section could do with explaining, I am willing to bet there is probably an answer on the editing room floor.

As you rightly point out elsewhere, that Que prick might have surrendered. However, I am prepared to sidestep his existence on the whole and pretend it didn't happen.

i fully agree and go back to my comment of removing terrible sam time with more story building for the autobots theres so much taken out of the film for the human side that half the autobot and decepticon scenes leave you with a what the hell is going on feeling XD
of course can in no way argue about your Que comment at least now he doesnt exsist anymore

[Cliffjumper]

As you rightly point out elsewhere, that Que prick might have surrendered. However, I am prepared to sidestep his existence on the whole and pretend it didn't happen.

It's possible he surrendered and led Sideswipe, Bumblebee and My Cousin Vinny into a trap, for which he got his comeuppance. In fact, I move to make this official fanon.

[Shrapnel]

It's possible he surrendered and led Sideswipe, Bumblebee and My Cousin Vinny into a trap, for which he got his comeuppance. In fact, I move to make this official fanon.

Seconded.

I would like to think he lured them with Scotch Eggs too. Who can resist a mid-battle scotch egg?



That Dino/Cousin Vinny character has been bugging me. As I cycled home today I couldn't help think it was a remarkably cynical move by Ferrari and by the production team to literally include a new character that mostly does nothing apart from drive about being a pretty Ferrari. I know Ferrari marketing are very strict too, so can believe they insisted on naming the robot, I also note we never saw him get damaged. Putting aside my Grandpa's jokes concerning Italian engineering, this probably related to the fact that Ferrari will not let anyone show one of their cars in a state of disrepair (Exemplified in games like Forza Msport or Gran Turismo where cars do not show visible damage), I guess this extends to the robot versions of their cars. Of course, one could possibly assume that he failed to turn up to the final Dread fight because of some manner of niggling electrical failure.

The other thing is, a bright red Ferrari 458 isn't exactly inconspicuous. But then, I remember thinking, when I was a kid, that a Lamborghini done up like a fire warden wasn't exactly fading into the background. And as for Mirage, well I've still never seen a Ligier JS11 on the road.

So yes, anyway, I always found the GMC tie up a bit disturbing in the earlier films, but at least there was more purpose to it than Dino's shameless redness. And as Cliffjumper said, I do wonder if Mercedes were quite aware how much they were affiliating themselves with a genocidal maniac robot with a pet bird. It was good to see some variety, but it might have been nice if it had been something more subtle and not blatant marketing rammed in our eyes.

[Summerhayes]

I quite liked Q, purely on the grounds that he had the line "we're all good chaps", so I'd rather think that the Autobots found themselves surrounded after taking a wrong turn, and put up a pretense of surrendering so they could wait for Optimus and the wreckers to provide back-up.

[Thunderwave]

And as Cliffjumper said, I do wonder if Mercedes were quite aware how much they were affiliating themselves with a genocidal maniac robot with a pet bird.

A pet bird that is everywhere, spying on the "Enemies of the Decepticons" and assassinating people.

However I'll say I was surprised and pleased with his alt mode and his new robot mode. Plus he's a Decepticon car that's not a dark, drab color.

[Cliffjumper]

I'm amazed they actually bothered working with Ferrari - most films and TV programs just don't because of the massive restrictions. And yeh, I had the same thought about Mercedes, especially considering VW and Porsche's long-stated objections (and that Mercedes have always been very funny about that sort of thing since the Le Mans disaster).

The GM thing didn't really bother me that much, what with them owning several brands. And not being able to recognise much American stuff.

[Wildrider]

Poor Ironhide

Well just got back from watching it, in 3D no less, although this was forced on me as in Wigan people only watch 2D and all 2D showings were booked out solid! Could be a taster for the film's future success, seems to be doing BIG business so far.

Well the 3D was amazing for the most part, I think they could have shortened the opening scenes of NASA and still have made it evocative, at least they made a better fist of recreating Richard Nixon than 'Watchmen'.

As for the film, I'm going to reserve final judgement for DVD, I wasn't left with my initial joy from seeing the first one or initial anti-climax of ROTF (Although I've learned to love ROTF since).

Sentinel Prime was ok, but at the end of the day it's just another MacGuffin and another final battle to save the world. The city battle was entertaining enough, but all that relentless action I find a bit exhausting these days and end up feeling a bit tired, I think I'm getting old.

nice to see Barricade popping up, but why bother bringing him back just to disregard the other TFs from ROTF? The OCD fanboy in me can't help but look for past characters and closure, like Jolt and the Twins (Who I like), but it doesn't really detract from the film.

To the casual viewer the Wreckers were fine, to compare them to the oodles of previous material, iuncarnations and lore is unfair, they were nicelt designed and were servcieable ground troops and a bit tougher than previous support staff.

Dino was a facepalm moment for me, but I'll live with it.

I enjoyed it for the most part, but wasn't blown away, Bay does spectacle and fantastic action and it was what I expected.

I would have liked more insight into why Megatron was hanging around looking all moody, you would think he would relish the chance fro some genocide. Did anyone else think the bit where Carly challenged him directly was about to lead to some massive revelation that she was on the Decepticon's side all along? It may have been in the delivery, but she gave him a good telling off.

Shockwave was as about as much use as Devastator, amusing that he gets a big intro and Prime states "That's Shockwave!" as if he's the next big bad and then he's absent for two hours. Was the tentacle worm a separate TF?

I half expected him to pop up as a third faction, maybe to attack Megatron for diluting Decepticon purity by siding with Sentinel Prime (Funky design on him)

Human characters were o.k., they do what they normally do, you're never going to get an expansive character arc, Lennox shoots stuff, Epps shoots stuff, Simmons does wacky. I liked McDormand and Tudyk's characters.

Wing suits were cool! But I would have liked a few more shots of the human military attempting to break the siege of the city, surprising considering Bay's love of all things US hardware, no tanks or anything, just grunts with machine guns.

Looking forward to catching it again on Bluray.

[inflatable dalek]

I'm amazed they actually bothered working with Ferrari - most films and TV programs just don't because of the massive restrictions. And yeh, I had the same thought about Mercedes, especially considering VW and Porsche's long-stated objections (and that Mercedes have always been very funny about that sort of thing since the Le Mans disaster).

Presumably that's why we got the huge in film advert, plus it might be evil, but it's clearly shown to be the car of choice if you want to get in the knickers of a super model (which he'd almost certainly have achieved if not for making the classic first date mistake of trying to destroy the world).

I actually thought the trailer neatly showed why they didn't bother with it in the first two, it badly cuts back on Prime's manoeuvrability and there's at least one where he gets turned over because of it.

If he were that desperate to fly he could have always scanned some souped up military plane beforehand and switched alt modes in the city. But then that's always been the elephant in the room when it comes to how easy it is for them to change their disguises in the films, they don't use the ability anywhere nearly as much as they should (really Bumblebee switching Camero's is the closest to doing it sensibly, and even then not only does he only do it to impress Mikaela rather than throwing Barricade off, he picks near enough the same car making it's use as a new disguise negligible).

I think as far as villains in subsequent films goes the problem is a similar one to the Superman movies, they've done Lex Luthor to death but none of his other adversaries have anywhere like the same recognisability with Joe Public (hell, even with the Nolan Batman films the one with the Joker in still did hugely better box office than the one with the obscure guys in despite the critical plaudits). Though maybe going down the IDW route of doing Galvatron as a seperate character to Megs might work? Even if he's a good way behind him in name recognition terms no one else even comes close. I've already had people saying they've no interest in a film where all the villains are names they've never heard of.

Certainly it might have been easier for them to sneak into the city at the end if they'd at least changed the colours of their highly distinctive alt modes (which would have had the bonus of making sense in plot and letting Hasbro shift some repaints).

[Blackjack]

I just watched this! Good god, unlike Revenge of the Fallen which had a huge chunk dangling like a lull (between Prime's death and the countdown-to-the-climax as the Decepticons land on Egypt), or the first Movie which spent way too long on the humans (the hackers in particular) this one was non-stop tension all the way through.

Without further ado, while the fanboy in me is still in fresh-from-the-movie mode, I'm going to list what I liked and what I don't like. Opinions subject to change upon second viewing and reading of the points raised in this thread:

+The entire second two-thirds of the movie beginning from the Dread battle was fantastic. I mean, while I actually enjoyed the conspiracy theory and the job interviews stuff (nowhere as banal as the random going around the world stuff seen in ROTF) but I know it'll put off most people. Yeah, the Decepticons suck badly, but I'll dissect that later.

+Optimus Prime and everything about him. Awesome trailer, awesome fight scenes, awesome flight mode, (squee energon axe!) And even Peter Cullen lost his cool composure as Sentinel Prime activates the pillars. And of course he gets all the best action scenes. And completely psycho as well. "KILL THEM ALL!"

+Sam Witwicky. He goes from wanting to be normal in ROTF, into wanting to be special and helpful here in DOTM, whilst trying to get a job (I can relate). Thus his characterisation goes back full circle and stuff. I really, really like Sam and don't mind him at all.

+The female lead switch is handled as plausibly as it is possible in real live. Star-crossed lovers do break up, and the fact that it's brought up again later by Judy makes it feel great. Not sure about Carly. I like her, she doesn't piss me off, but I'm not sure if she is better than Mikaela.

+Epps, Ironhide and Sideswipe back as proper secondary characters instead of 'appearing in the beginning and popping out for five minutes in the climax'.

+Bumblebee, charming and badass as ever. Nothing really much to say about him.

+Every single fight scene feels awesome, and not like a filler scene (unlike the Rampage battle or the Devastator battle in ROTF which are blatant time-consumers).

+Ironhide's death! I did not see that coming, especially after that badass scene with the Dreads. The perfect emotional 'oh shit, things are going down!' thing to shake everyone up. And his hand dissolving and everything... god, I loved Ironhide. Great exit.

+Sentinel Prime's betrayal. Also caught me off guard, and the fact that there's also a plausible reason is also pretty well done. Sentinel is badass all around, swinging swords like he means business, and Nimoy's voice nails this anti-villain down. A refreshing break from Megatron and Fallen's rather one-sided drives. Also, that moment when Sentinel calls Optimus a traitor is perfect. Because in Sentinel and Megatron's POV, that is exactly what Optimus is. Picture yourself in the villains' shoes and see humans as, I dunno, monkeys or ants or something. Sentinel is pretty original, and the fact that I had no clue he was going to be the big bad as opposed to Shockwave or Megatron caught me really off guard.

+The invasion montage, and the Decepticons blowing shit up. That is great. Random Decepticons shooting people, vaporizing stuff, random scanning... that giant nameless walking weapons platform... Decepticons all over the world, even relatively obscure locations... Those badass Decepticon ships look awesome as well.

+Laserbeak was great, with his constant shapeshifting to kill the conspiracists or whatever, way to shut up those transscanning-haters out there! And he certainly is sadistic and enjoys his role.

+The fact that the Twins was dropped. I like them, but the duo that replaced them, Wheelie and Brains, are less annoying and actual good fun in a bit. Brains did not make any impression on me other than 'someone to bounce dialogue off Wheelie', though.

+Dropping Leo without a trace. Woo-hoo.

+Ron and Judy brought back down to their first movie baseline. This is how they work effectively. Judy's still crazy but we don't see her stoned or see Ron groping his wife, and instead we get the two charming (if quirky) parents back.

+Sideswipe. After being cheated any action scenes other than 'damn I'm good' in ROTF, it's great to see him actually do stuff.

+Ratchet going with Optimus to the moon. It's nothing much, but seeing him have some meaningful screentime warms my heart.

+The lack of toilet humour and similar stuff. Bay even reined in on the sexy shots, robot spitting (other than Starscream), and military montage scenes, concentrating them into little bits. And, last but not least, the lack of robotic genitalia.

+The new Decepticons... Dreads. Great action scenes, Predator homages and quick deaths. Best roadfight I've ever seen. Driller or whatever you call him... it's a shame Devastator can't be this cool.

+The new Space Bridge and Cybertron. Simply epic, and I love it.

+Dylan! How could I forget Dylan? In the beginning I thought he was this random faux-friendly romantic rival to Sam, something relatively irritating. Then the Mercedes turns out to be Soundwave, and he easily becomes the best human villain in TF-verse.

+Simmons being batshit insane is good. Him being crippled is rather realistic... crazy idiots like him can't be that lucky forevermore. His friendship with Sam is also well done.

+Soundwave. He manipulates stuff and all. While he doesn't speak like G1 Soundwave, or turn into a tape deck, I liked his appearance here. I like his design... apparently, Michael Bay told Mercedes that the car was going to be Carly's car and didn't reveal the Decepticon bit until very late. Or something. That was the reason he gave to the fans that asked, anyway.

+It's subtle, but little references to the fact that the world is aware of Transformers is ace. No need to bring it in front of your face, just have the news reports use 'Autobots' and stuff.

+Vehicle battle modes, and pull-out weapons. Optimus' trailer-slash-weapons-rack is pretty awesome. I also like Qwheeljack's gimmicks if not the character.

+That big mouthed protoform that is seen with Megatron most of the time.

+Little scenes for the Decepticons. Megatron in the desert, the Decepticon power trio standing together, Starscream blowing up the Xantium and the Osprey transport... Starscream isn't a punchbag for Megatron here which I like. Sam, on the other hand...

+The new Autobots... Dinomirage. Godawful name, and while he is colourful and cool with the blades, Dino looks like a bloody Bionicle. Regardless I love him anyway, he's got cool action scenes.

+The Wreckers. Leadfoot's gut is stupid, but I pretty much like the 'they are assholes so we don't let them out' line, and they don't prove too annoying. I was surprised any of them made it out, actually. With the Decepticon casualties mounting, I was pretty miffled that they didn't kill, say, Leadfoot just to even the odds.

+No airstrike, no human tanks/jets/whatever doing ridiculous damage to Decepticons. Everything the humans do only annoy the transformers unless it's concentrated, helped by Autobot fire, only weakening the Decepticons or using Wheeljack's gadgets.

+Tying up loose 'cut' Decepticons like the Doctor (there's a swarm o' them!) and Barricade. The latter died like a bitch, though, and killing him off in the first movie was actually closure enough.

+The fact that his name was on FBI watchlist makes Sam unable to score job interviews other than with a loon.

+Last but not least, little references like 'all hail Megatrooooon'. And the Xantium — I had no idea whoever put that in. I was expecting it to be called Ark-Two or the Axalon or even Omega Supreme, but the Xantium... It's a silly thing, but I'm infinitely happy.

-Now the negatives. As I'm sure all of you must be feeling, the scene where Optimus was incapacitated by cables of all things and had to wait for a good chunk of time for the Wreckers to cut him down, is rather unimpressive.

-The whole sequence about Wang. It's not as cringe-inducing as, say, Leo-Simmons stuff, but he is really irritating and no sane Chinese man with the name Wang would pronounce it in a way that it would be confused for another word. I liked it when he died.

-The government girl, whatshername. Irritating, pompous, and while she actually sees sense unlike Galloway, we could do without her scenes. I mean, other than adding angst to Sam, do we need to see her for the rest of the movie? The banal romance between her and Simmons is poorly done as well.

-I liked Sam's boss but he was killed rather stupidly.

-Lennox didn't get quite as many scenes as I liked, other than being the cavalry and helping Sam gain access to Optimus.

-Q. Gad, Q. It's a good thing they didn't name him Wheeljack, because I like Wheeljack and I hate Q. While at first he seems harmless enough, that scene where he surrenders to the Decepticons is so bloody stupid. 'Can't we talk this out?' indeed. We never even see him transform, he's got an ugly-ass design, and at least Mario, Brains and the Wreckers got themselves action scenes. Q is a bitch and dies like one.

-Starscream's death. I understand that it makes Sam badass to kill an 'elite mook', and the fight scene was pretty epic (and funny!). Besides Screamer got himself a few nice battle scenes early on. Buuuuut, I really like Starscream and I felt he should die at the hands of Optimus or somebody. More of a personal favouritism than anything, but still.

-Megatron's death. Not the fact that he was killed — it makes perfect sense — but the fact that poor Megs lasted all of two seconds after he wounded Sentinel. Surely they could spare a minute or two for a final battle royale smackdown?

-Poor Megatron did not do much at the end, did he? At first he seems to be a master planner, manipulating Sentinel Prime and even one-upping the Fallen in his plotting. But at the final battle, Sentinel, Soundwave, even Starscream engages the enemy while Megatron just sits there and watches, only appearing when the pillar fell. Instead of doing the sensible thing and reactivating the pillar instead of waiting for humans or something, he sits where Carlee can find him and convince him to kill his ally. This is villain decay, friends.

-Poor, poor Shockwave didn't get a crowning action scene of awesome for himself and basically becomes Driller's handler of sorts. I can't blame Bay since Shockers is apparently the red herring taking the role of big bad, but still... at least let him kill the random humans in the building, damn it!

-Epps' crybaby buddy. Pissed me off.

-Simmons' batshit crazy sidekick. Not that he's unlikeable, but why can't he be with the crew that went into Chicago?

-Jolt's inconspicuous absence. What, can't have Driller kill him in the first three seconds of the battle? Of course, since I like Jolt I'd still bitch about it but I'll probably bitch less. Probably.

-The lack of a proper closure epilogue. I mean, all the named Decepticons are dead (which leaves, oh, about the 100+ generic Decepticons hiding all over the Earth), and couldn't we have a final closing speech by Prime as we look into the sunset and Linkin Park plays? It's a small thing but I liked those parts of the Bay films.

-The lack of named good guy casualties. Ironhide and Simmons' leg were the only ones that mattered — Q and Sam's boss didn't have much of an impact, and nobody cares about generic soldiers turned into skulls or shot out of the sky. Wheelie and Brains' fate are ambiguous. Arguably Ironhide's death is shocking enough, but every named Decepticon, plus Sentinel Prime and Dylan, and Cybertron itself, died. I mean, killing off one of the Wreckers or Epps' crybaby sidekick or the government chick isn't hard to do, surely?

All in all, a great splashing finish. I loved it and the good parts outweigh the bad. I'd prefer more climatic Decepticon battles, but it echoes how real life wars are fought — go for the head and end the enemy's life quickly. Great 3D, spectacular action scenes, a plot that pretty much holds together (unlike ROTF which jumps all over the place) and, last but not least, the lack of all the groan-inducing jokes.

[Heinrad]

Went to see it today. In 3D. I just have one thing to say.

THEY KILLED IRONHIDE!!!!! SOMEBODY BRING ME THE HEAD OF MICHAEL BAY!!!!!!!!!

And the thing is, it wasn't a throwaway death. Much as I hate to say it, Sentinel was thinking ahead. Ironhide's a walking artillery piece, and if anybody could pop the control rod for the space bridge from a distance, it would probably be Ironhide.

Of course, just because it was a good idea in narrative terms doesn't mean I like it.

I liked the way Sam's parents were handled, and that humans were willing to work with the Decepticons(if only to ensure that they might live a little longer). Carly...... I actually have to wonder at what phase the scripts were at when they dropped Megan Fox.

I didn't see Barricade actually buy it. I know his eyes got hit, but there was so much other stuff flying around at that point that I couldn't make him out.

Sentinel's betrayal made sense, in a way. He figured it was the best way to save the planet.

I liked Megatron in this. I actually got the impression that his lethargy was down to two things: 1) leftover damage from ROTF, and 2) I get the feeling this was actually meant more as a "Plan B", and having to work with Sentinel was a bit much for his ego. I do think that last battle should have gone on a bit longer, although given the shape Prime was in, it may not have been practical.

As for Screamer...... I think Movieverse Screamer is a lot more effective without Megatron in his life.

[wolfbolt86]

Saw it the other day and like it. The only complaint is that it feels like a few shorts are missing that should have been in it. The already mentioned capture scene and a few others that I can't remeber right now. I'm not sure which is my most like out of the series. It is either the first or thrid one.

If they do make a fourth are there any gimmicks that should be included like headmasters or targetmasters. Agreed that Unicron should not be in any of the films.

I know this is off topic, but has anyone else have problems getting on to tfwiki.net? I keep getting a url request failer on several computers and my phone as well.

[zigzagger]

Some scatterbrained thoughts. More on it later...Maybe.

I tend to be impartial and/or nonvocal towards the live action films, but here I go anyway (FYI, I thought the first film, while not great, was fine for what it was. Didn't like the second). With all the vitriol aimed at this thing, I was half expecting it to be a big flaming pile of excrement...

It didn't seem that bad to me. I'd put it on par with the first film.

It had its problems to be sure - there were some editing and pacing issues, and the product placement, as to be expected, was intrusive a lot of the times - but it did what it was supposed to do and even manages to raise the stakes.

On the subject of pacing and editing issues, I felt there could've have been a better balance between the faster and slower paced stuff. For example, I agree that the first 20-odd minutes of exposition could have benefited from a trim. Conversely, the more high-adrenalin skyscraper scene, while quite the spectacle, could have used some editing as well.

Also, while it's a minor niggle, the movie sure does zip through Sentinel's introduction. In about a minute and a half Sentinel wakes up, mistakenly attacks Optimus, then promptly tells us about the McGuffin (okay, one of the McGuffins). I understand Bay and co. wanted to get the plot moving, and at this point it really needed a kick in the butt, and it is somewhat rectified by Optimus and Sentinel's little one-on-one, it was just a little jarring is all. Like I said, it's a slight niggle of mine.

That said, while nothing beats Rollerblading Bonecrusher, the requisite car/robot chase (each movie has one) was ****ing fantastic.

At a glance it's looking like I'm of the minority here, but I liked the humbled Megatron. Or rather, I thought it was an interesting concept, how that concept was executed is a different matter. It's a damn shame, really, of how sorely underused (and perhaps misused) by the screenwriters he is (in this film especially). Sadly, it's perhaps for the best that Prime stuck an axe to his head considering the villain decay he's endured over the course of the three films. However, I really dig the new CG model, cloak and all. Visually it has a lot of personality and it really conveys Megatron's mental state rather well. Definitely one of my favorite movie designs.

I recall a member at some forum or other (neither of which I remember) called Shockwave something along the lines as a red herring villain. That's a succinct description, I think. There's not much else I can say about him. To tell you the truth, I figured he'd go underdeveloped, as is the trend in these films. Nifty spin on the G1 character though, and he sure does look imposing while posing dramatically on his pet sandworm.

Not much else I care to add about Optimus and Sentinel. Nimoy and Cullen did a wonderful job. Come to think of it, Bumblebee had a far more reduced role. This really was more of Optimus' movie than the previous two.

Laserbeak is delightfully creepy. "Is your daddy home?" Brilliant stuff, and I went in thinking I wouldn't care much for the character. I thought Soundwave was handled pretty well, too, but for ****'s sake, if they insisted that Welker do the Dr. Claw thing (undoubtedly for fan service) I would've preferred that the voice had been treated.

Carly. She really didn't leave much of an impression. I didn't dislike the character, she was just kind of "blah" for me. There just wasn't much chemistry between her and Sam. I almost wish they'd recasted someone else to play Mikaela. The plot seemed better suited for the character, in my opinion. But, hey, break-ups can happen in the movie world too, so Carly's inclusion is perfectly feasible. She just didn't do it for me. Besides, I'm not the target demographic, I'm sure there were plenty of folks that enjoyed her.

Sam does an alright job carrying the story. He's still the same awkward dork who is endearing at some moments, grating at others.

Yeeeeah, the surrender scene is bit odd and really doesn't make a whole lot of sense in context of the film, or the movieverse as a whole. It's frustrating to watch. It felt disjointed -- like the screenwriters had came up with (what they believed) a great sequence during some production meeting but couldn't figure out where to put it (that, or they simply didn't have the heart to cut it once it was completed). Like the plot was written around the scene, rather than the scene feeling like a natural progression of the plot. It just...happens.

[Auntie Slag]

Dumb question but do you agree with SP that Optimus is the traitor to his planet here? The other autobots don't seem to mind that their planet is being ripped through a whole and whatnot (and I'm unsure, does Cybertron actually blow up, or does the remaining three quarters just go back to its part of the universe?

Damn hippy loving Prime. Unless its to be implied heavily, what Optimus mentioned at the end of the first film that the other autobots are out there in space searching, they're not really on Cybertron any more. Its all just Decepticons...

[Summerhayes]

Well, second viewing over and I was right; this film is excellent.

The car chase with the dreads and everyone was badass. The best non-optimus fight scene of the trilogy. Anyone else notice how they looked a bit like the dreadlocked ghosts from Matrix Reloaded, and they also turned up just for a freeway chase.

I still quite like Quejack and felt sad when he died. So you guys are all just meanies.

Wang was funny to a point. He probably should have stopped trying to be funny once Laserbeak arrived.

Laserbeak was brilliant and creepy.

Dino did some quite cool stuff, but most of it was in the background or in long shots, and therefore difficult to notice.

Nimoy and Cullen are incredible.

Huntington-Whitely starts off completely incapable of delivering lines, then slowly learns to act over the course of the film.

Optimus' dramatic arrival at the end would have worked better if the Autobots didn't already have the upper hand.

I couldn't spot the twins.
But if its just their alt-modes, at NEST, couldn't Bay say its just the two cars they scanned in ROTF, and give nobody any money?

The scene where they get captured doesn't make a lot of sense, but its something I don't think about until after the film; most general moviegoers won't notice or care.

Dumb question but do you agree with SP that Optimus is the traitor to his planet here? The other autobots don't seem to mind that their planet is being ripped through a whole and whatnot (and I'm unsure, does Cybertron actually blow up, or does the remaining three quarters just go back to its part of the universe?

Damn hippy loving Prime. Unless its to be implied heavily, what Optimus mentioned at the end of the first film that the other autobots are out there in space searching, they're not really on Cybertron any more. Its all just Decepticons...

I got the impression, in this film at least, that there are no autobots and hardly even any decepticons. Optimus described it as a "wasteland". So I'd say he's fair enough in saving the humans at the expense of a lifeless world.

And although it looked a bit like when Vulcan died in Star Trek '09, I'd like to believe Cybertron is still out there, waiting for the All Spark, with just a slice missing.

[inflatable dalek]

The first film claimed Cybertron was abandoned and dead (though all the spin offs have merrily ignored this and shown all sorts running all over the planet).

I actually think that Prime's decision was a fairly simple one, the Transformers can exist and live happily off Cybertron, and without the Allspark even if the planet were fixed they're still a species eventually heading towards extinction. Plus trying to bring a planet through an untested brand new bit of tech probably isn't the best idea in the Universe either, even if it did look like it would have worked in the end.

Oddly I think The Ultimate Doom actually provides a more complex dilemma for Prime as Cybertron's still inhabited with a (unspecified but potentially very large) number of Autobots as well as Decepticons. And there he does finish bringing Cybertron through even at the possible expense of Earth.

[Shrapnel]

Dumb question but do you agree with SP that Optimus is the traitor to his planet here? The other autobots don't seem to mind that their planet is being ripped through a whole and whatnot (and I'm unsure, does Cybertron actually blow up, or does the remaining three quarters just go back to its part of the universe?

Damn hippy loving Prime. Unless its to be implied heavily, what Optimus mentioned at the end of the first film that the other autobots are out there in space searching, they're not really on Cybertron any more. Its all just Decepticons...

I agree yes, it seems odd to think that an alien would literally sacrifice his own homeworld for Earth. What seemed even odder is that none of the Autobots cared at all that Cybertron was getting blown up. I can understand peace and love and freedom being the right of all sentient beings and all that bobbins, but surely a line has to be drawn?

It's quite bizarre, but it seems in this universe sometimes almost like the Decepticons are just freedom fighters going up against an overly zealous military police force. Admittedly, when the Decepticons wanted to blow up the Earth, that was one thing, but wanting to save their own home planet should really be in the interests of all of the Transformers. If they stopped all this rucking they could probably have teamed up and gone and found a nice, uninhabited planet to use to rebuild Cybertron and everyone would be happy.

But no, they all just go around smashing up cities and shooting eachother in the head. "It's like an echo of Human life, man. We can all towtally learn from this dude, especially, like, presidents and stuff." - I can hear Bay saying it now.

I'm not sure, because they all look quite different, but is there a concept in this universe that Decepticons are some different species? Even if Cybertron only has Decepticons on it, surely they are just other Transformers, and thus, the same as Autobots fundamentally. Therefore, if they are sentient beings, and freedom is their right, Prime should be a bit less of a bastard all the time.

Either way, the more I think about this film the more I liked it, and I want to go and see it again but have been duly informed by my girlfriend that I will be doing so on my own!

[inflatable dalek]

I agree yes, it seems odd to think that an alien would literally sacrifice his own homeworld for Earth. What seemed even odder is that none of the Autobots cared at all that Cybertron was getting blown up. I can understand peace and love and freedom being the right of all sentient beings and all that bobbins, but surely a line has to be drawn?

Certainly the original Earthbound Autobots made their choice in the discussion under the bridge in the first film when they agreed to the plan to destroy the Allspark, at the time believed to be the only possible way of saving Cybertron (and indeed, their race). The other who came along afterwards and stayed likely agreed, anyone who got pissed off at Prime sacrificing their future would have almost certainly gone off elsewhere. Which means there might be some pissed off Autobots out there.