How can IDW win back our hearts?

Terome · Post by **Terome** » Sun Jun 07, 2009 10:22 pm

You all know the story - with no toys to shift, no gimmick to cram in and apparently little to no Hasbro mandate to work around, IDW relaunched 'The Transformers' in the Ultimate Marvel tradition - they updated the time frame, recommended a little bit of research into the real world, and basically cherry-picked the franchise to provide an interesting new take on these toyetic robot chums we seem to have gravitated towards. I think it's fair to say that the board consensus around these parts was positive - things happened for a reason, some sort of plot structure was apparently taking shape, Furman was looking at Google Maps once in a while, a lot of the fat had been cut and a lot of good TV shows had been borrowed from.

Board consensus nowadays is that things aren't quite the same. A shame, how sad! For some of us, this might be the final straw, especially with the near-simultaneous collapse of the promising Animated series. But we've taken our knocks before, have we not? Didn't we sally on through Dreamwave and those awful dubbed shows? Didn't we take the flood of drooling Movie yoinks on the chin back in oh-seven? Has wave after wave of stunningly bad Fun Publications fiction not hardened our hearts to any assault?

Is there hope of salvaging the IDW comics in the eyes of TFArchive, even after everything interesting about it has been carefully stripped out and discarded over the past year? I've no doubt that they are capable of doing so - they've got some demonstrably talented people in their Rollodex. Can we be won back?

Thoughts, bets and disagreements to follow:

Rossum · Post by **Rossum** » Sun Jun 07, 2009 10:59 pm

The ongoing being fun to read would be a start.

TFArchive always seemed neutral on the IDW comics though--I think AHM just inspired some retroactive appreciation.

Auntie Slag · Post by **Auntie Slag** » Sun Jun 07, 2009 11:02 pm

Make it weekly, just like the old Marvel comics. Is that possible? I'm not very tuned in with the way comics work these days but everything seems to be published on a monthly basis and I'd much rather it went back to weekly. Mr. Furman certainly was used to writing for that time frame wasn't he?

It ups the pace, maybe it ups everyone's game too. It was so good to have that time frame of publishing when great stories like Dinobot Hunt, Target: 2006 and Prey were doing the rounds.

Post by **Denyer** » Sun Jun 07, 2009 11:03 pm

Not really. With AHM, they've done what Dreamwave did in their very first storyline -- undermine what comes afterwards. Over the past year I've watched a succession of friends and respected acquaintances who were anything but fair-weather collectors drop the title. Pre-ordering Coda feels like misguided optimism at this stage, and I'm expecting sales of an ongoing to follow a steady downward trajectory.

This concludes today's pep talk.

Sir Auros · Post by **Sir Auros** » Sun Jun 07, 2009 11:25 pm

When IDW decided to reboot a series that was still pretty young and interesting with some drivel written by a guy who apparently only had experience with the G1 cartoon, they lost me. The only reason I even have more than three issues of AHM is because I felt sorry for my local comic shop and procrastinated on my cancellation. Same goes for the rest of their stuff, but now that that shop has shut down, I'm not going to continue my subscriptions elsewhere.

Savannahtron · Post by **Savannahtron** » Mon Jun 08, 2009 3:37 am

Sir Auros wrote: The only reason I even have more than three issues of AHM is because I felt sorry for my local comic shop and procrastinated on my cancellation.

I feel the same way...there is a local shop that opened up last year, and the owner is a nice guy, but every time I go in, he is preoccupied with his friends that hang out at the store and acts like I am imposing by picking up my books. I have not been back in 2 months.

Honestly, I lost track of the comics a few years ago when DW was still doing Tf, and I never really read a lot of the books as a kid because I was more into X-men and Spiderman, and money only went so far.

Ah well, the comic book audience is a hard audience to please as there are many micro-experts who either lavish over the idea that he caught an error or snubs a new writer/artist for lack of research or continuity errors.

The Transformers cartoons and comics were made to sell toys, and the G1 continuity is what it is, but having certain re-writes and additions are really the only way comics can work a story line in. There are a lot of knowledgeable readers who thrive on the drama created and write feverishly on fan boards about this or about that, but in the end the audience will dictate if a comic is successful or not by the sales volume.

Hearing that the G1 was rewound and then rebound makes me think that sales were faltering and re-aligning a G1 continuity beginnings with the release of the movie could just be a marketing ploy to capture new customers. Who knows?

At any rate, I am a bit jaded. Every new toy, comic, cartoon or movie I see makes me think of the marketing genius that fueled the best 30 minute commercial ever.

"Our main target was boys, so we really looked for what the boys have around them and what they were interested in. Then we found that they all like cars! There were super car toys in that period, so we changed super cars into robots. SciFi Car robots became convoy and then that became the TF foundation. " Mr. Nobuyuki Okude, Executive Vice President of Takara Co. Ltd.

Twenty-five years later, there are various sites on the internet and collectors around the world. How to please everyone? No way in Hell! Hahaha....so just keep pumping out new toys, and rehash old ideas.

I'd like to see the next toy line lead into the Classic series combined into the next cartoon. I'd love to see a Next Gen 1.

Source:
http://tformers.com/article.php?sid=525&mode=flat

Cliffjumper · Post by **Cliffjumper** » Mon Jun 08, 2009 4:20 am

Get in a professional comic writer, rip it up and start again. Reboot in the hands of someone brave enough to think beyond what's been done in the past 25 years. A ban on using Prime, Megatron, Starscream and Grimlock unless said writer can think of something, anything, different to do with them. Learn to count to more than 12. Just do a Transformers comic - if it's any good, it'll sell well and they won't need to issue forty-eight simultaneous mini-series. And shoot McCarthy in the face, just for the good PR it'd bring.

Post by **inflatable dalek** » Mon Jun 08, 2009 7:09 am

Write comics that aren't crap. It's not impossible and they can still manage it from time to time as Jazz showed.

On a more general note, managing the PR side so the entire company doesn't come across as being run by massive cocks might help as well.

Terome · Post by **Terome** » Mon Jun 08, 2009 10:17 am

Dalek: Write comics that aren't crap.

Cliffjumper: Get in a professional comic writer, rip it up and start again.

Denyer: I'm expecting sales of an ongoing to follow a steady downward trajectory.

Rossum: The ongoing being fun to read would be a start.

Auntie Slag: Make it weekly, just like the old Marvel comics.

I say a weekly comic by Warren Ellis! That'll fix the quality, the sales, the fun and the pace. And he's taken cheques from Hasbro before. Having said that, is that GI Joe: Resolute stuff any good? From what I've heard, it sounds like he's having fun with the concept and throwing plenty of blog-science around.

It really does puzzle me, though, why weekly comics are so rare these days. Is it because the American audience is 90% jackass and throws its toys at the thought of an anthology or a story under the prescribed 23 pages? Or should I go out on a limb and say that the industry is a confederate of risk-averse crap merchants?

Gouki · Post by **Gouki** » Mon Jun 08, 2009 10:49 am

Terome wrote:I say a weekly comic by Warren Ellis! That'll fix the quality, the sales, the fun and the pace. And he's taken cheques from Hasbro before. Having said that, is that GI Joe: Resolute stuff any good? From what I've heard, it sounds like he's having fun with the concept and throwing plenty of blog-science around.

It really does puzzle me, though, why weekly comics are so rare these days. Is it because the American audience is 90% jackass and throws its toys at the thought of an anthology or a story under the prescribed 23 pages? Or should I go out on a limb and say that the industry is a confederate of risk-averse crap merchants?

It's more because the companies feel a weekly comic has to have the exact same paper, size and page count as a monthly comic and thus still charge like $4 per issue. Which becomes pretty costly.

And they wonder why things like Shonen Jump do so well, with such competitive pricing.

Savannahtron · Post by **Savannahtron** » Mon Jun 08, 2009 11:41 am

Terome wrote: Is it because the American audience is 90% jackass and throws its toys at the thought of an anthology or a story under the prescribed 23 pages?

Not sure what is up with all of the American bashing on the board lately. Honestly, if you don't like Americans, so what? I could go on and on about how ridiculously retarded other cultures are, but in the end I would just make myself look like a jackass.

Too bad we are America, boohoo...the rest of the world weeps.

Terome · Post by **Terome** » Mon Jun 08, 2009 11:46 am

Not sure what is up with all of the American bashing on the board lately.

I should think that 'America, as a concept,' and 'the American comic-reading market' are two fairly distinct things, but keep up the good work in representing your culture as level-headed and erudite.

Savannahtron · Post by **Savannahtron** » Mon Jun 08, 2009 11:50 am

Terome wrote:I should think that 'America, as a concept,' and 'the American comic-reading market' are two fairly distinct things, but keep up the good work in representing your culture as level-headed and erudite.

Wow. You really should consider using some manners. Your example saying that 90% of American readers is a prime one of American bashing. You cannot justify your reasoning, cannot prove your point, and cannot assert any notion other than a jibe or ad hominem. I think you should reflect on your own actions before assuming that you are intellectually superior, because in my opinion throwing in a cheap $2 word like erudite makes you look like the jerk :O)

Cliffjumper · Post by **Cliffjumper** » Mon Jun 08, 2009 12:38 pm

I'd say the claim that 90% of the American comic buying public are stupid is a good one - this is why Jeph Loeb sells books and genuinely talented writers keep getting cancelled. This is why DC and Marvel have abandoned storytelling in favour of EVENTS. This is why IDW seem to have stemmed the nosediving sales of their TF books by turning them into a series of posters about GEEWUN ROCKS AND KICKS ASS!

If you're not in that 90%, you're kosher and it's not bashing you. If you are in that 90%, you've only yourself to blame.

Neuronutter · Post by **Neuronutter** » Mon Jun 08, 2009 2:21 pm

The one thing IDW could do at the moment is actually tell us when the ongoing is going to be launched and what the plan is. There's been no news on the subject for a long time. I thought they'd release some details at Botcon, in fact I was sure they would after they didn't say anything at the last convention, and we only found about it out through the AHM solicits. Then...nothing.

I don't know what's going on over at the IDW forums but Ryall and Denton no longer seem to be around. Ryall used to be great at revealing tidbits of information, teasing us with what's to come and generating a bit of interest. That aspect of IDW seems to have disappeared and I for one am bored with not knowing what's coming. It used to feel like there was always something to look forward to, from the -ations, Stormbringer and the Spotlights to BW and random things like Hearts of Steel. Right now I just don't give a f*ck about AHM, nor the upcoming movie comics and the ending of the Spotlights for now feels like another nail in the coffin.

All I want from IDW at the moment is information about what's coming and when. I guess they'll announce it at the next Comiccon, but they said that about Botcon and then announced f*ck all. The combination of that and Animated being officially cancelled with no news on what's next made a very disappointing weekend in terms of things to look forward to. IDW needs to change that.

Neuronutter · Post by **Neuronutter** » Mon Jun 08, 2009 2:25 pm

inflatable dalek wrote: On a more general note, managing the PR side so the entire company doesn't come across as being run by massive cocks might help as well.

What did they do that made it sound like that?

Rossum · Post by **Rossum** » Mon Jun 08, 2009 2:30 pm

Cliffjumper wrote:I'd say the claim that 90% of the American comic buying public are stupid is a good one - this is why Jeph Loeb sells books and genuinely talented writers keep getting cancelled. This is why DC and Marvel have abandoned storytelling in favour of EVENTS. This is why IDW seem to have stemmed the nosediving sales of their TF books by turning them into a series of posters about GEEWUN ROCKS AND KICKS ASS!

If you're not in that 90%, you're kosher and it's not bashing you. If you are in that 90%, you've only yourself to blame.

With comics, somehow it's hard to say that the audiences ruin them, given that they've always existed as escapist entertainment (I think?). With AHM, I really don't enjoy it, but hey, if that's what the majority of the audience wants, has it really ruined the Transformers comics? It's made them significantly less entertaining for a minority, but otherwise engaged a lot of the audience.

Post by **Denyer** » Mon Jun 08, 2009 6:04 pm

Terome wrote:I should think that 'America, as a concept,' and 'the American comic-reading market' are two fairly distinct things

Likewise. "The American comic buying public" includes the UK and most of the rest of the world, doesn't it? American comics are a market. Manga's a market. There's still a modest UK comics market (2000AD, Jack Staff, etc.)

The rest of the post was unnecessary, though.

Neuronutter wrote:What did they do that made it sound like that?

The last year of press releases and solicits have included some segments that read in a less-than-complimentary manner towards existing books, and occasionally readers. Lack time to compile sources right now, but I'm sure others can answer for themselves.

Rossum wrote:if that's what the majority of the audience wants, has it really ruined the Transformers comics?

Harm's always going to be in the opinion of the reader speaking, unless we're talking falling sales figures. In either case, I don't think popularity should be confused with quality.

There's an argument that Transformers shouldn't aspire to be any kind of coherent science fiction. (Much the same as the "He-Man shouldn't involve anything you wouldn't show a five-year-old" line of reasoning.) I don't agree with either. Expect or allow garbage, and it's unlikely anything better will result. It's easier to produce the former, and in many cases it has a wider appeal.

Post by **inflatable dalek** » Mon Jun 08, 2009 6:10 pm

Denyer wrote: The last year of press releases and solicits have included some segments that read in a less-than-complimentary manner towards existing books, and occasionally readers. Lack time to compile sources right now, but I'm sure others can answer for themselves.

I think my favourite was the "de-canonisation" of the Furman written Mosaic where they only just stopped short of calling him a delusional liar for claiming it was canon in the first place.

There is still a chance though that IDW could win people round, look at Animated. It came along after a few longer period of crap TF cartoons and most of the initial reaction to the first promotional pictures was "What the ****'s that?". But almost from the first clips going on youtube people were being won round and now just about everyone loves it. Why? because it's not crap. See IDW, it can be done.

Neuronutter · Post by **Neuronutter** » Mon Jun 08, 2009 8:21 pm

inflatable dalek wrote:I think my favourite was the "de-canonisation" of the Furman written Mosaic where they only just stopped short of calling him a delusional liar for claiming it was canon in the first place.

There is still a chance though that IDW could win people round, look at Animated. It came along after a few longer period of crap TF cartoons and most of the initial reaction to the first promotional pictures was "What the ****'s that?". But almost from the first clips going on youtube people were being won round and now just about everyone loves it. Why? because it's not crap. See IDW, it can be done.

I must've missed the Mosaic fuss. I remember Furman writing one and I remember it being in continuity but I don't remember them de-canonising it. I have had the feeling that their press releases have been getting more DreamWave-esque though.

As for Animated I wish IDW had kept their comics going and put out a mini. I think that could've been great.