General IDWverse *SPOILER* discussion

[Warcry]

Who do we reckon they'll be then?

With Galvatron and Cyclonus both on the list, I'd be really surprised if Scourge wasn't one of the two.

Doubledealer may well be working for the Dead Universe crew, what with being a mercenary with no loyalty to anyone but himself. But I'm pretty sure these two new characters are supposed to be of the 'undead' variety like Galvatron and he's shown no sign of that so far. I suspect someone in Banzaitron's crew is a Dead Universe agent, anyway, because otherwise I'm not sure how the Magnificence plot will tie in with the rest of the Revelations stuff.

Dirge would be a good choice as well. His obsession with death would fit right in thematically with the Dead Universe storyline, and it would be nice to include a character who wasn't shown as an ultra-powerful force to be reckoned with in the past.

I wouldn't be surprised to see the Dead Universe cast rounded out with characters who've been shown with supernatural abilities in the past, either. Bugly and Mindwipe are the two that jump to mind right off the bat, and adding the 'undead' attribute to their already formidable skills would make both of them incredably dangerous. But at the same time I'm not sure those two and their abilities would fit in smoothly with the more-realistic TF universe IDW has shown us so far. I'm quite fond of both characters, though, so that's probably the direction I'd lean if I were writing this.

What's the endgame for Nightbeat and Hardhead on Gorlam Prime?

Everyone is thinking that Hardhead is going to have to take down Nightbeat, but what if it's the other way around? Killing off the title character in his own Spotlight would be so counter-intuitive that I, for one, fully expect it to be used purely for shock value at some point.

Which Decepticons will be foisted into a gestalt and what will become of Monstructor?
Could that last one have anything to do with Devastator being listed in the cast list for All Hail Megatron in the Focus issue?

Assuming that's not an error and Devestator is going to show up (and what with the ZOMG G1! feel of the AHM previews, I'd be shocked if he didn't) it pretty much has to, doesn't it? Where else would they have gotten gestalt technology? I wouldn't be surprised if the Monsters were dissected by Banzaitron's minions to figure out exactly how they work.

As an aside, I have to say that I hope Devestator's appearance doesn't herald the arrival of all of the classic boring and predictable G1 combiners. If Sunstreaker can be a Headmaster, surely we could have a random combiner made up of Quake, Ruckus, Thrust, Gutcruncher and Needlenose?

And if not, I hope they least shuffle up the rosters a little bit when they patently don't make any sense. It's amazing to see the lengths people on the IDW board are willing to go to find a way to shoehorn Swindle in with the Combaticons, even though it would make no sense at all in the IDW universe.

[optimusskids]

Swap Swindle for Gutcruncher maybe

Hmm Combatibots

Hound
Guzzle
Warpath
Powerglide
Hardhead

[Blitzwing]

As for Devestator appearing in AHM, I'm pretty sure that can be chalked up to McCarthy not paying attention to anything going on in IDW so far. Hopefully the combiner tech will be made available to everyone during the Revelations Saga so that it will be covered. And hopefully it won't be made into overkill right away.

[Halfshell]

Dirge would be a good choice as well. His obsession with death would fit right in thematically with the Dead Universe storyline, and it would be nice to include a character who wasn't shown as an ultra-powerful force to be reckoned with in the past.

Well he was part of an ultra-powerful force to be reckoned with in the past. Not that I can recall him actually doing much himself in Worlds Collide, but anywho...

Good call on Bugly and Mindwipe. What with Bludgeon having been a herald alongside Galvatron last time out, it'd make a sense for one of his Chaos Trinity buddies to be switched in. Bugly doesn't really have the name value, though. Actually was it Bugly? I really should check these things before I start typing...

Killing off the title character in his own Spotlight would be so counter-intuitive that I, for one, fully expect it to be used purely for shock value at some point.

Wouldn't surprise me. We've had three Spotlights that end with the central character put on ice indefinitely (Shockwave, Soundwave, Kup), and Ramjet's fate could easily be surmised as the same.

I half expect "teh stunning climax" of the Wheelie issue to be his death. They'll make us actually like him, then do what everybody was clamouring for beforehand.

Maybe Wheelie'll be one of the Dead Universe cast?

As an aside, I have to say that I hope Devestator's appearance doesn't herald the arrival of all of the classic boring and predictable G1 combiners. If Sunstreaker can be a Headmaster, surely we could have a random combiner made up of Quake, Ruckus, Thrust, Gutcruncher and Needlenose?

Good god I'd love to see that last one.

I'd think Computron would pretty much be a given, considering the prominent role the Technobots have played both as a unit and in the analysis of the gestalt tech. Computron would be a sensible counterpoint to Devastator... beyond that, I'd be happy to not see another combiner appear ever.

[Aardvark]

I had hoped we wouldn't be seeing Devastator any time soon (Well Gestalts in general, tbh). He's one of the lea interesting Combiners -- moreover, he's one of the most nonsensical. Seeing as the Terrorcons have already been painted as a bunch of lame Sixshot groupies, I guess they'd be my choice if I had to pick one of the traditional Gestalt units to receive the 'giant kibble monster of death' treatment. They're loopy terrorists with a thirst for destruction who want to be as badaaaz as Sixshot -- I'd say they'd be more than happy to let themselves be guinea pigs in order to gain that sort of power.

As for Mindwipe and Bugly -- I doubt it. I think Furman's going to go for either shock value and/or big names.

It's weird actually, IDW have played pretty much all the (Western), big b@D 'Con cards, despite having more in the deck than the Autobots. Trypticon was seen fighting alongside Prime, Megs and Omega in a flashback in Stormbringer so who knows what the hell his role is in the IDW-verse.

Maybe Wheelie'll be one of the Dead Universe cast?

Well the plot's Klaus' idea, so I somehow doubt it. (:

[Halfshell]

It's weird actually, IDW have played pretty much all the (Western), big b@D 'Con cards

Except for the Duocons and Firecons. They're obviously saving those for something big in the future.

I'm not that surprised by Devastator, tbh. The prototype gestalt is a six-man team, so it makes sense for the attempt to duplicate it to run off the same basis.

And I can't really see them going with LeoCaesar. :-/

[Warcry]

Good call on Bugly and Mindwipe. What with Bludgeon having been a herald alongside Galvatron last time out, it'd make a sense for one of his Chaos Trinity buddies to be switched in. Bugly doesn't really have the name value, though. Actually was it Bugly? I really should check these things before I start typing...

It was Bugly, yeah. He owned Shockwave with one hit during the fight with him and Jetfire, but IIRC he just kinda...stood in the background and let Bludgeon and Mindwipe do all the cool stuff for the rest of the series.

If Yomtov had been doing the book, the poor guy would have ended up block-coloured 90% of the time.

Wouldn't surprise me. We've had three Spotlights that end with the central character put on ice indefinitely (Shockwave, Soundwave, Kup), and Ramjet's fate could easily be surmised as the same.

The only one of those that really works on those terms is Kup, though. Ramjet was obviously going to wind up scrapped from Page One, and Shockwave and Soundwave's stories had epilogue sequences that made it blazingly clear that the title characters would be returning.

An ending of "character gets blasted, narration cuts off in mid-sentence, fade to black" is more along the lines of what I was thinking.

I'd think Computron would pretty much be a given, considering the prominent role the Technobots have played both as a unit and in the analysis of the gestalt tech. Computron would be a sensible counterpoint to Devastator... beyond that, I'd be happy to not see another combiner appear ever.

I was really hoping they'd never show up, actually. Some of the most interesting characters in the TF universe are a part of gestalt teams, and it really annoys me that the only characterization 90% of them will ever get is "he turns into the left arm of this bigger guy".

Not that them not combining would necessarily mean they'd get any more exposure as characters, but at least that way we'd know that we'd never see the team walking around combined for an entire miniseries like in the DW books.

I'm not that surprised by Devastator, tbh. The prototype gestalt is a six-man team, so it makes sense for the attempt to duplicate it to run off the same basis.

But is it really a good idea to subject six useful engineers to a process that drove the last group of subjects off the deep end?

[Halfshell]

I was really hoping they'd never show up, actually.

Mmm. It was going along quite nicely until Monstructor turned up. Though I was getting annoyed at the fact that most of the teams were still moving about as one unit anyway. Okay, so they're not walking about combined, but the Terrorcons may as well have been in the Sixshot Spotlight for all the attention they got...

But is it really a good idea to subject six useful engineers to a process that drove the last group of subjects off the deep end?

Hell no. The Constructicons are the sort of group who'd try everything they could to engineer the process to work, but there's no way they'd use themselves as guinea pigs as far as I'd see.

The Terrorcons in a desperate bid for popularity, yes. The Predacons, maybe, as they'd be prepared to take the risks involved. The Combaticons once they knew the process was stable and worked, probably. But the Constructicons aren't really best suited characterwise by any stretch.

I have massive difficulty seeing somebody like Hook sacrificing any degree of cognitive control. "Okay, we've pooled our strength... but I'm in charge, dammit. I don't have to listen to you... no, no - listen, I know what I'm doing. Shut up."

[Warcry]

Though I was getting annoyed at the fact that most of the teams were still moving about as one unit anyway.

How many gestalt members have we seen in a non-cameo role without their teammates so far? Just Silverbolt and Swindle?

In a lot of ways I think IDW have squandered the benefits of their clean slate of a universe by keeping so many established character groupings (gestalts, Dinobots, Wreckers, etc...) together.

The Terrorcons in a desperate bid for popularity, yes. The Predacons, maybe, as they'd be prepared to take the risks involved. The Combaticons once they knew the process was stable and worked, probably. But the Constructicons aren't really best suited characterwise by any stretch.

It's not even so much a question of character for me as it is one of why their superiors would want them as guinea pigs. When you're trying to make a super-warrior you want the components to be soldiers themselves, not an engineering team.

[Halfshell]

How many gestalt members have we seen in a non-cameo role without their teammates so far? Just Silverbolt and Swindle?

Blades had a [relatively, given the nature of most appearances] decent role in Megs Origin.

In a lot of ways I think IDW have squandered the benefits of their clean slate of a universe by keeping so many established character groupings (gestalts, Dinobots, Wreckers, etc...) together.

Oh, definitely. Even if it's not so bad as Dreamwave's criteria for being on the Cybertronian Council being "are you a second year Autobot car", it is slightly disappointing that the crew of the Ark-27 is the Targetmasters and Triggerbots. Predacons aside, the crew of the Thanatos is probably the best example of diversity we've seen so far, and that wasn't really anything out of the ordinary.

When you're trying to make a super-warrior you want the components to be soldiers themselves, not an engineering team.

Oh yes.

[Stunnabot2280]

Sorry if someone asked this already...

Something interesting I've noticed about the sizes of two of our favorite oversized transformers:

Fortress Maximus: In "Spotlight: Arcee", Fort Max's robot mode is only slightly taller than Jetfire, and we don't get a chance to see how large his alt mode is.

Scorpinok: In Devestation #6, Scorpinok is very big, but not so much that he can't fit inside a room of a large factory. In "Spotlight: Grimlock", his robot mode is only slightly taller than Grimlock's. His alt mode is big enough to hold Grimlock in one claw, whereas his alt mode in the cartoon or comic continuity would make Grimlock look like a lil' bug.

Basically, I'm wondering if the folks at IDW are planning on doing something to them later on so that they both end up being the ginormous, small-city size that they were in the cartoon/comics, or if they just plan on having them remain as-is for this continuity. Any thoughts?

On another note, I was always curious: As far as the cartoon/comics are concerned, were Fort Max and Scorpinok supposed to be the same size as Metroplex and Trypticon?

[Cliffjumper]

In Ye Olde Marvel comics, Fort Max and Scorponok were always more-or-less normal size - a bit taller than the rank and file, but only in the same sort of way, say, Ultra Magnus was in the cartoon. Trypticon was a bit bigger - I think roughly to scale with his toy when compared to the Dinobot figures. Metroplex's one comic appearance showed him to be bloody massive - possibly bigger than in the cartoon.

Always got the impression Scorponok and Max were smaller in the cartoon, but then the scale for the show was especially out of whack.

[Stunnabot2280]

Ah, I see. I never really read any of the old Marvel TF comics, so I kinda assumed (wrong, of course) that they were portrayed the same way as in the cartoon. I always knew that there were plenty of things different in the comics than from the cartoon (Dinobots' origin, Grimlock being bad@$$ instead of comic relief, Megatron and Galvatron being two different bots, etc), but now I'm getting that "You THINK you know, but you have no idea" feeling.

[Cliffjumper]

Heh, no worries. Not many big Transformers get much of a role in the comic - at least not while retaining their size, anyway. I guess that it's difficult to use something that sort of size regularly within the format - big battles like the regular Trypticon/Metroplex smackdowns would lose a lot in a few frames, and aside from that there'd be little for them to do. Those two got to be a bit bigger due to only appearing a couple of times, but FM and Scorponok were decided upon in the comic as new leaders of each side (the Movie characters not being used in the Marvel US material), so I guess they had to be made small to actually interact with their troops (Marvel did try to keep Omega Supreme in BIG SIZE, with the daft result that he'd be talking to Blaster or someone and only his leg would be in frame, with a speech bubble pointing up).

I guess drawing big robots surrounded by smaller ones was also a lot harder before digital publishing kicked in - artists today have the option of drawing a fully-detailed Optimus Prime and Omega Supreme, and then just shrinking Prime down and dropping him into the frame alongside the larger one. Back in the day, they'd have to hand-draw the little ones as well...

At one point in the comic, Brainstorm did create a larger body for Fort Max, and he did appear a *little* bigger for a while, before gradually shrinking back to how he was.

Simon Furman, who wrote a fair chunk of the Marvel before he started doing IDW G1, has always been a bit of one for making most Transformers more or less physically equal anyway - it can work nicely for things such as the Marvel UK incarnation of Galvatron, where he's able to tear through everyone else without any obvious sign of being bigger and better.

[inflatable dalek]

Based on the look of him I'd say IDW Fort Max turns into something very similar to Armada Megs. Dreamwave Max was unique in that even though his body ws roughly the same size as in Marvel/IDW his forehead was 500% bigger.

[slartibartfast]

scale us an issue enen wors tahn mairio kart.oversized characters can b trivcky to charcteridse, having prime gtalking to a gkneecap is a bit lacking.

althought I t might be a interseting area to ecplire, scale often just gets in the way of storytelling, big is poswergful, maybe nonthing more.

yay for theread-+jacking

[MegatronIDW]

I'm thinking that the Hrdhead spotlight will have Nightbeat trying to figure out how to rid himself of the control...and then Hardhead just shoots him. He's been billed as a no nonsense problem solver and to cold bloodedly kill a team mate would make for a pretty powerful ending as well as reinforce the more mature, morally gray nature of the Autobots in the continuity.

The Magnificence is, I'm thinking, some kind of end game weapon that the Dead Universee guys are going to bring into play. With the name I'm wondering if it might be some kind of vampiric device that drains the life out of planets and feeds it into the "Dead Universe".

I'd love to see some obscure character be rendered bad ass by the Dead Universe plotline for the final two slots. One of those G2 characters that never got a proper chance to shine in the original comics maybe.

Devastator is a lock for the first combiner. But I wouldn't be surprised if we saw Bruticus and Predaking before too long given that the characters that make them up are already working together.

And what makes youso sure Arcee is going to be killed? Given what I saw of her I'd say Jhiaxus is the one who should be worried about going for "The big shutdown".

[Halfshell]

And what makes youso sure Arcee is going to be killed?

Primarily it was an outlandish statement designed to provoke discussion.

But mostly because it's how I'd play it. Arcee's a psychopathic zealot who's obsessed with vengeance... she has nothing beyond Jhiaxus. Sure, we could deal with future plot strands where she tries to come to terms with her new place in the universe... but personally I think the poetry of the situation calls for her glorious sacrificial death at some point in proceedings.

[zigzagger]

...the Dead Universe cast is going to be rounded out by two more characters (in addition to Novamesis Prime, Galvatron, Jhiaxus and Cyclonus) who we'll likely meet in Spotlight Cyclonus.

Didn't Furman say that Liege Maximo will be showing up at some point? Does that count?

Why not round out the Movie-related characters with Blurr? Or Wreck-Gar?

Now Wreck-Gar would be a nifty choice. The character is serviceable, and yet is underexposed (well, in contrast to the more iconic characters). I'd imagine he'd actually fit in quite nicely with the Dead Universe cast, though I am not making any speculations there, just be an interesting twist on the character people tend to recognise as the guy who watches too much television. Would shatter that preconceived notion real quick. Just brainstorming, but one possible G1 throwback (because people like them for some reason ) that could work well with the DU material is the quasi-indestructible ability that some of the Junkions used in the original cartoon. Plus, he has a few screws loose, potentially giving the character an element of tragedy. It worked for Kup with satisfying results, in my opinion.

[Blitzwing]

I think that Wreck-Gar would make a good Spotlight character, but not in the "Dead Universe/Revelations" Saga. There are many different ways you can re-invent someone like him, but he would be better suited for a more light-hearted story, I think.