I'm curious to find out...

Civ · Post by **Civ** » Fri Apr 02, 2004 12:18 am

After reading the link that shows Ishin getting torn to bits in the TF/G.I. Joe #6 comic thread, I too have noticed a lot of Pat Lee bashing, I've also noted other artists being bashed as well and that got me thinking. Who would you guys consider to be the best TF artist thus far? I'm not going to limit this thread to solely G1, if you want to include any other TF titles, then go right ahead.

Personally, I have seen some of Pat Lee's work and I thought some of it looked really good; however, he does tend to have a problem keeping the proportions on his characters believable. Also, from what I've read on this board, he has trouble drawing a whole comic story that's easy to follow. I'm going only by what other people have said because I'm not a comic reader. Solely based on raw drawing talent though, Pat is the best I've seen thus far.

So what are your opinions? If you have any pics to show, please post them as well.

Cliffjumper · Post by **Cliffjumper** » Fri Apr 02, 2004 12:42 am

Bryan Hitch and Geoff Senior are my personal faves, though I can see why people don't like Geoff. Some of John Ridgway's stuff was really good too. Staz could turn in some great stuff. William Johnson's brief run was beautiful as well. Derek Yaniger was superb when not overdoing it.

Don Figueroa does some very good stuff too, though I personally think he's better when working from existing character models - Armada or G1 over TF:WW. And while I've never thought Wildman was quite all that, WW:DA went a long way to making that up to me. James Raiz was also very good.

Pat Lee's done some beautiful covers, but he can't do action, and in War & Peace couldn't even draw pretty poses. I do think there is the potential for him to be a great TF artist, but he has too much power for him to get the discipline, and he makes some bad stylistic choices. The DW series should have been The Ultimates, not Dominion Tank Police.

For me, it's all about telling stories, and I can tolerate most art that does so.

Dinobot · Post by **Dinobot** » Fri Apr 02, 2004 12:46 am

Geoff Senior. He's drawing look nice. I know that's a pathetic reason but it's also the most valid one.

Cliffjumper · Post by **Cliffjumper** » Fri Apr 02, 2004 12:54 am

TF art is odd, because it's a very difficult thing to do... Jim Lee, for example, couldn't really do it, and yet some Marvel UK staffers who went on to bugger all really could...

Similarly, Jose Delbo, if you look at the parts of his work that don't involve robots, was actually a pretty average penciller. and yet it all fell apart as soon as he had to draw robots...

Bad art can't totally put me off a good story - Enemy Within, for example, I rate very highly, despite the total toy designs. However, I find good art can never quite save a poor script.

Dinobot · Post by **Dinobot** » Fri Apr 02, 2004 1:16 am

Gotta agree with Cliffy. If the stories good the art doesn't really matter too much. It's obviously nice to have pretty pictures but I don't reallly care...

Post by **Denyer** » Fri Apr 02, 2004 1:28 am

Yaniger. Senior. Both knew how to use angles and shadows. Basically, read the bits of US G2 which weren't pencilled by Manny Galan. "Edge of Extinction" from the US 'G1' title (#75) is a classic, as is most of Senior's work on the UK stories. Dynamic and emotive, whilst maintaining a vision of Transformers which aren't simply humans in metal suits (something the otherwise engaging Wildman was a little too prone to.)

I don't appreciate exaggeration of scale or robots gaining excessively rounded edges which couldn't possibly result from their transformations... hence I actively dislike Lee's body of work.

Figueroa and Raiz have both turned in some quality work for Dreamwave. I particularly like the sketchy inks on Raiz's G1 posters. Figueroa sometimes succumbs to 'rounding' much like Lee, but it's much gentler and he keeps proportions credible. Plus he's still relatively new to monthly book work, and is finding a style.

Cliffjumper · Post by **Cliffjumper** » Fri Apr 02, 2004 1:38 am

I think an important thing defining one of the basic reasons I like Geoff and not Pat is that Geoff can convey scale without resorting to doing everything from a human POV... As soon as Pat wants to show how big someone is, it's suddenly "let's squint up at his face from his toenails" time...

Sir Auros · Post by **Sir Auros** » Fri Apr 02, 2004 1:44 am

I have to disagree and say that bad art really can ruin a story. Other than just bad writing for the TF's, the biggest problem I had with the GI Joe crossover by DW was that while Jae Lee has an interesting style, either his skills or the style were not suited to showing the action very well and there were just too many places where there should have been more frames showing action that were just dropped. You'd see a character go from rest to rest with an attack lost in the gutter somewhere. The style was fine, but he couldn't show action. That's kind of the same problem Pat Lee gets ragged on for but he also has a controversial style that many just dislike.

I think the other DW artists apart from those two have done a decent job and the Marvel run had some good artists that were only hindered really by the printing technology available to comics at the time.

Post by **Hound** » Fri Apr 02, 2004 3:41 am

I'm a bit on the fence as to which can ruin a comic, story or art.

I've read comics that didn't have all that great a story but the art was so awesome that I just love the comic. WildCATs #5 or 6 (the one with the fold out pages) is like that. The story isn't fantastic but Jim Lee's art and the coloring is just so great in this comic that I can't help but love it. I can't praise it enough...

On the other hand, I've read stories with art that just wasn't all that attractive to me at all but the story was just so great it didn't matter. Sandman for example, there are a couple of issues where the artist wasn't someone I cared for but the story is too good to be hindered by it. Actually that kind of non-flashy, gritty, non-mainstream kind of art fit the stories in a way that enhanced the experience most times.

I have read comics where the art was so bad that I just couldn't bring myself to enjoy what was probably an enjoyable story. JLA and Aquaman have been that way lately.

As for TF Comics, Figueroa, Wildman, Lee and Senior. In that order. I give credit to Lee because his very first TF stuff and the stuff that looks like he actually put some effort into is some beautiful stuff, I'd be happy if he did pin-ups and posters for the rest of his career, let's put it that way.

I will also confirm that, at least for me, drawing comic characters and drawing giant robots are a very different experience. Drawing TFs is hard as hell, I draw them all the time and I still suck at it. Drawing Superman is cake comparitively. Actually drawing something as complicated as a jungle background is easier for me than drawing Optimus Prime...

another tf fan · Post by **another tf fan** » Fri Apr 02, 2004 4:09 am

I can't coment on the artists above because I only have a passing familiarity with thier work, but I will say that as a car doodler it is much easier for me to draw Transrormers than organic figures...the symetry and flow of line works better for me at drawing Optimus versus penning Batman.

Post by **Warcry** » Fri Apr 02, 2004 6:08 am

I don't think there is a 'best' artist, really, but I appreciate elements of several artists' styles.

Andy Wildman -- No one can express emotion in TFs like he can. The facial expressions, postures, body language, etc. that his TFs have is amazing. Also, the way he would include battle damage, and keep it consistant from issue to issue, shows how good his attention to detail is. Unfortunately, he often has a habit of making TFs too organic (he's refrained from doing that in WW: DA so far, though). This means that he can draw some characters amazingly (Bludgeon, Fangry, Squeezeplay, Scorponok, the Megs/Ratchet fusion and AM Grimlock come to mind), but some characters, like PM Prime, looked terrible when he applied his style to them. Also, he has a terrible sense of scale, drawing most all TFs at about the same height.

Derik Yaniger -- He draws an amazing Prime, and his style went a long way to creating the unique atmosphere of the G2 comics.

Geoff Senior -- His use of shadow allows him to set the mood for a scene very effectively, drawing me into the story more than I would be otherwise. Also, he's amazingly talented at portraying action.

Don Figueroa -- His art always seems a bit too 'polished' for it to seem real. Basically, his robots don't look like they've been through millions of years of war to me. On the other hand, he's a talented designer (as the WW designs prove) and his work, if not perfectly realistic, is still beautiful.

As for Delbo, I really don't think he deserves most of the flak he gets. He's a mediocre artist, but there have been many worse ones on TF books (Frank Springer, Dan Reed and Don Perlin come to mind). The real problem with Delbo's art, IMO, is that most of it came at a time when both storytelling and Yomtov's colouring were at all-time lows. No one complains about his work in 'Rhythms of Darkness', for example. But when his mediocre work shows up in something like, say, 'Spacehikers', people tend to notice it more.

spiderfrommars · Post by **spiderfrommars** » Fri Apr 02, 2004 8:28 am

Geoff Senior, Lee Sullivan, Don Figueroa and Derek Yaniger are kinda the Fab Four for me.

Also Andy Wildman, Simon Coleby, Bryan Hitch, James Raiz and Jae Lee are very talented boys.

Osku · Post by **Osku** » Fri Apr 02, 2004 10:29 am

Without listing reasons (lazy), IÂ´d say Geoff Senior, Don Figueroa, guy who drew US 7-8 whose name I always forget, Derek Yaniger are ones I really like. There are also good artists who drew only a couple of issues.

If someone is looking for a new project on his/hers/their TF-site... IÂ´d really like to a list of TF comic book artists, with little examples of their works. Also a list of the issues they penciled. Huge project I know, but would propably be useful for the fandom?

Cliffjumper · Post by **Cliffjumper** » Fri Apr 02, 2004 12:29 pm

I'm hoping to do staff bios at some point for my comic guides, but it'll probably be after the comic guides themselves

I'm working on the format on-and-off and gathering material as I go along

I can't believe I forgot Simon Coleby. John Marshall was pretty neat too

Osku, US #7-8 was William Johnson.

Oh, and worst TF penciller - Dwayne Turner's probably in there...

Halfshell · Post by **Halfshell** » Fri Apr 02, 2004 12:38 pm

Lee Sullivan.

I readily admit some of his character designs can look a bit generic, and he doesn't often capture the feel of "giant metal robot" but I like the look of his stuff.

And that's good enough fer me.

Cliffjumper · Post by **Cliffjumper** » Fri Apr 02, 2004 12:54 pm

Anyone else think it was a crying shame Dave Gibbons' work on TF came to about two covers? It's actually quite gratifying the amount of industry heavyweights who worked on TF at some point or another... Jim Lee, Bryan Hitch, Gibbons, Richard Starkings, Bill Sienkiwicz, Mark Texeira, Alan Davis... sure, some of it was just covers, but it's more megastars than worked on G. I. Joe

I'm sure Gary Erskine will be glad I forgot him considering how poor his TF cover was

Oh, and I told a slight porky about poor art ruining a good story... heavily experimental art can really put me off reading some comics, as I often find it too distracting to be really worth the effort. I don't think any Transformers fits into this category - TF/G. I. Joe is probably the closest, and my biggest problem with that it the Joes are quite difficult to tell apart, especially if you didn't follow the early days. Stuff I'm thinking on is that guy who drew some of Joe Casey's Uncanny X-Men [bits from #400, that 2001 annual], and I've never properly read Havok & Wolverine: Meltdown.

Ozz · Post by **Ozz** » Fri Apr 02, 2004 12:54 pm

My favourite is Andy Wildman. Like Warcry says, he's great at showing battle damage, and can draw brilliant face expressions. Too 'humanlish' look of TFs never bothered me.

Then there are whole bunch of guys from Marvel UK, and some of Marvel US, who already had been mentioned. Besides Barry Kitson, who wasn't mentioned and like his work, so I'm mentioning him right now. Although his Shockwave was a bit strange.

And I agree that Turner was probably the worst.

Cliffjumper · Post by **Cliffjumper** » Fri Apr 02, 2004 1:01 pm

Originally posted by Ozz
Although his Shockwave was a bit strange.

For years, what with Shockers totally failing to come out in the UK, thanks to Barry I seriously thought his head formed the end of the gun, because it was as wide as his body...

CounterPunch · Post by **CounterPunch** » Fri Apr 02, 2004 1:05 pm

Joe Ng, James Raiz or Senior i love ngs stuff so much because ive seen him go from a fan fave drawing sigs a couple of years ago to being the artist on energon from issue #21 (just out..)

check out joes works at http://www.candystirfry.com and tell us what u think

Post by **Denyer** » Fri Apr 02, 2004 2:30 pm

Originally posted by Hound
Sandman for example, there are a couple of issues where the artist wasn't someone I cared for but the story is too good to be hindered by it. Actually that kind of non-flashy, gritty, non-mainstream kind of art fit the stories in a way that enhanced the experience most times.

I really like the simplified style used in The Kindly Ones. Or the scrawl of Lobo: Infanticide. I also like Manny Galan's work on G2, although I don't consider it good representative art... it was done in a great hurry, and the exaggeration inherent in it has an appeal of its own.