War Within Vol 2: The Dark Ages #5 (SPOILERS)

Commander Shockwav · Post by **Commander Shockwav** » Thu Mar 18, 2004 3:01 am

Well, after five issues of this, I have to say, this series just hasn't done it for me.

It just feels like a whole lot of nothing has happened. This story could so far literally be told in two issues. I mean, the Fallen has done nothing to really impress me. Sure, he's super duper powerful, but in order for a character to be intriguing, there has to be something more that keeps our attention. He just seems to waltz around grabbing his four subjects as he pleases, spouting vague mystical statements about an unbinding. Simon, please, give us a reason to care! At least by making it clear what an unbinding even is.

And the inconsistencies. Furman normally is consistent, but again, he's slipping as a writer becomes more obvious. We clearly see Blitzwing triple changing in the first War Within volume, also written by Simon. Yet, now we have Blitzwing being experimented on by Shockwave to become his first triple changer. Major error.

And I just feel the characterization to be so generic. What I mean is you could exchange most of the characters with completely different characters, and have no impact whatsoever on the story. Bludgeon could be Starscream, Mindwipe could be Thundercracker, and Bugly could be Skywarp. I mean, come on, these guys are supposed to be different! Real different, not the common day Decepticon thug.

And the art? Well, its not Don.

All in all, this issue gets a "C" for average at best. Issue #6 better be kickass to make up for the mediocrity of it all.

Bombshell · Post by **Bombshell** » Thu Mar 18, 2004 4:24 am

Originally posted by Commander Shockwav
We clearly see Blitzwing triple changing in the first War Within volume, also written by Simon. Yet, now we have Blitzwing being experimented on by Shockwave to become his first triple changer. Major error.

Yeah. And what's even more continuity error-ish is the fact that, in MTMTE, we learned that SPRINGER was the first Triple Changer.

And I guess this means that it was he who was in the cell marked "D-43", wasn't it?

Strafe · Post by **Strafe** » Thu Mar 18, 2004 5:27 am

I'll snip my review/post from Transfans:

Whoa.

That was cool.

The dialogue was fantabulastic. The Fallen, Grimlock and Bludgeon all had some excellent lines.

Wildman was the ****. Loved every minute of it.

The bit with Shockwave was lovely. I was just "Oh man, he's gonna **** someone up soon!"

The protectobots discussion was an excellent insight into Gestalts. Well done.

No complaints on this issue. 9/10

Let me reiterate. Wildman's art was excellent.

deej · Post by **deej** » Thu Mar 18, 2004 6:49 am

I'll side with strafe on this one - WW:DA5 was great...

my only gripe being that I'd rather see them take another 3-4 issues to wrap it up, instead of doing what happened with armada (ie an excellent build up in Worlds Collide, then finish it all in 1 issue).. One thing that springs to mind tho - how's prime/megatron going to tie back into the whole thing? Am I the only one thinking we'll see them pop back into this reality in the nick of time to save everything? (and thus returning to the usual cliche..) personally, I'd rather see them stay right out of the entire series & have WW: Vol3 handle what happened with the two of them..

Strafe · Post by **Strafe** » Thu Mar 18, 2004 6:54 am

Originally posted by deej
Am I the only one thinking we'll see them pop back into this reality in the nick of time to save everything?

I don't think Furman will pull that. In fact I fully expect The Fallen to be successful and bring about the Dark Ages.

Not sure how things will go from there, but I think Furman is going to pull a very cool ending to all of this that will lead nicely into Vol 3. It could be that the Dark Ages will be a multi-volume story arc, culminating in the return of Optimus and Megatron.

deej · Post by **deej** » Thu Mar 18, 2004 7:06 am

you know - one can only hope you're right... Transformer stories without those 2 seem to be a heck load more interesting (not that I've anything against prime/megs, but it is nice to see someone who doesn't mind giving them the backseat for a while & focusing on other characters).

I wonder if they'll utilise The Fallen's alt mode in the series?

Blitzwing · Post by **Blitzwing** » Thu Mar 18, 2004 9:55 pm

In regards to Blitzwing, it never says that the experiments Shockwave was performing on him was to make him a Triple-Changer. So there could possibly be something else about him that we don't know about.

I think the series is pretty decent so far. I'm not thrilled with Wildman's art, however, because it seems too basic. I love his facial expressions, but the actual bodies are a little lacking.

Commander Shockwav · Post by **Commander Shockwav** » Fri Mar 19, 2004 2:47 am

Originally posted by Blitzwing
In regards to Blitzwing, it never says that the experiments Shockwave was performing on him was to make him a Triple-Changer. So there could possibly be something else about him that we don't know about.

So I take it is just a wild coincidence that Sandstorm, Broadside, Astrotrain, Blitzwing, Octane, and Springer were all Shockwaves experiments AND happen to be the only triple changers......

Post by **Denyer** » Fri Mar 19, 2004 4:53 am

I consider that if anyone's ****ed anything up, it's Mick, who appeared largely to make up the last mini-series he worked on an issue at a time. Basic character location errors and statements to the effect you're treating the first mini-series the company you're working for put out as the dream sequence of a human character do not confidence inspire.

Haven't got WW#5 yet, but I'm also expecting no quick resolution. There's a "Big Shutdown" to be built up to, for one thing.

you could exchange most of the characters with completely different characters

Not a chance. The dialogue with the LSC, Protectobots and Trypticon has been excellent. Starscream is used as a character rather than a cypher.

I hate series in which all the details are handed to me on a plate... plus, I'm sick of plots which revolve around the matrix, Unicron or similar big uglies. Most of TWW has focused on the interaction of characters, not the Fallen plotting behind the scenes.

Computron · Post by **Computron** » Mon Mar 22, 2004 9:54 am

I got it today and I ****ing loved it, Grimlock was badass and not in the G1 ongoing sort of way of I'm bad cause I sometimes hit a bit hard.

His quote where he comes up and asks if they thought he was pansy like op prime was sweet as.

Jetfire was a little quiete for my liking, I thought he might of helped Grimloack but I guess he was frozen with terror or something. Nice to see hotspats relectance to use Defensor, perhaps this will be some kind of development for him as well which could be cool.

I second the opinion above of the Fallen succeeding. I don't think their is enough time to wrap it up in one issue.

Wildmans art is great (thouhg I'm still not a fan of Jetfires design) and unlike pat lee the action actually has a movement feel to it, when Grimlock his Bludgeon you can feel the hit and it doesn't feel like a copy-paste job.

I will enjoy seeing what appens when the Autobots realise Grimlock, Jetfire, Shockwave, Blitzwing and now Hotspot have all been taken by someone. Hopefully the Decepticons won't be too prominent next issue, I can only see them getting in the way and taking up valuable frames but thats just my opinion and on the current form of this Furman deserves some faith in what he's doing (though its still prooving grounds faith as he did mess Armada up in the last issue)

Strafe · Post by **Strafe** » Mon Mar 22, 2004 3:14 pm

Hmm...

Fallen = Liege Maximo?

Post by **Denyer** » Mon Mar 22, 2004 3:30 pm

Effectively. No direct link.

Arrived this morning, and am happy so far. He's aiming to bring about the big shutdown, I think, but how far he'll get with it is another thing. Hopefully no Prime/Megs next issue.

Bombshell · Post by **Bombshell** » Mon Mar 22, 2004 4:47 pm

Originally posted by Strafe
Fallen = Liege Maximo?

Not according to DK's "Transformers: The Ultimate Guide".

*SPOILER*

The Fallen:

The many battles against Primus culminated in shocking betrayal. Primus had created a crew of 13 Transformers to optimize his defensive and tactical options in planet mode. But one of the 13 had been turned and had attempted to sabotage Primus' planet mode. "The Fallen", as this Transformer became known, was thwarted and joined his new master...only to be sucked along with him into a black hole.

Strafe · Post by **Strafe** » Mon Mar 22, 2004 5:12 pm

Originally posted by Bombshell

The Fallen:

The many battles against Primus culminated in shocking betrayal. Primus had created a crew of 13 Transformers to optimize his defensive and tactical options in planet mode. But one of the 13 had been turned and had attempted to sabotage Primus' planet mode. "The Fallen", as this Transformer became known, was thwarted and joined his new master...only to be sucked along with him into a black hole.

That doesn't actually eliminate the possibility of Fallen = Liege Maximo.

Bombshell · Post by **Bombshell** » Mon Mar 22, 2004 5:18 pm

Originally posted by Strafe
That doesn't actually eliminate the possibility of Fallen = Liege Maximo.

Doesn't mention him, either.

I guess it's a toss up.

Cliffjumper · Post by **Cliffjumper** » Sat Apr 03, 2004 2:12 pm

Great art? Are we talking about the same WW: DA #5 here? The first dozen pages are shoddy on every level... It looks like Wildman's rushed the pencils, Sander's smothered them in some OTT inks and then Wang and Sunga have buried them in clunky colours.

Plot-wise, a bit m'eh.

Is anyone surprised they pissed over continuity again? Between Wheeljack, Superion, Red Alert, Blitzwing and, well, pretty much all the rest, I don't think they know what continuity is, or how vital it is to a comic title. Now, I don't mean everything's got to be like Claremont X-Men or something, but continuity is necessary for drama and character development. It doesn't help a heroic death scene [okay, DW haven't managed to do one of these, but bear with me...] if there's a 95% chance it'll be reformatted over the next story arc, and probably badly too - resurrection can be handled well [Elektra, Wonder-Man, Marvel Girl, Captain Britain]. But DW are just undermining any drama... Still, if it helps relegate MTMTE from actual canonicity as far as that piece of crap last issue goes, I'm all in favour. I mean, mapping out a whole ****ing history of Cybertron after a dozen or so issues? Wankers...

Strafe · Post by **Strafe** » Sat Apr 03, 2004 3:37 pm

Originally posted by Cliffjumper
Great art? Are we talking about the same WW: DA #5 here?

I dunno, pages 9 and 10 looked real nice, and the opening splash page of Grimlock smashing into the ground was a nice bit of visual eye candy. If anything I felt issue 4 had more art problems than issue 5, such as pencils not being colored or inked. This time, they actually got everything. (Tho to be honest that is to be expected in a comic book, not as a "bonus".)

So really I thought the prison and interior scenes to be well done, while the exterior scenes were decent. However Wildman does have a problem with background characters as they lose detail very quickly even if they are only 4-5 feet behind the foreground action. i.e. Sunstreaker or Bludgeon in any number of scenes.

Plot-wise, a bit m'eh.

Plot-wise I thought it was a great issue 5. The banter amongst the bots and cons in combat was entertaining, for instance, when Grimlock tells Jetfire "Be right with you Jetfire". In addition the discussion amongst the Protectobots and Hotspot's lack of a will to fight added some great characterization to the special team.

But more importantly, I think Furman is going for an "evil" victory of some sort here. Shockwave may stop The Fallen, but not before the Fallen initiates the Dark Ages which may lead into a multi-volume Dark Ages WW, culminating with the return of Optimus and Megatron.

Hopefully.

Your thoughts on where this is going Cliffy?

Meanwhile, if you really want to slag a comic, get TF/Gi-Joe #6. Oh the fun...

Cliffjumper · Post by **Cliffjumper** » Sat Apr 03, 2004 3:46 pm

I dunno, the opening splash I thought looked quite deformed... and the background characters are very shoddy, especially Jetfire. The colouring's really, really bad on the first few pages, especially the Fallen... Plus look at Jetfire and Grimmers as The Fallen drags them off... art by numbers. It picks up a bit from the attack on the Autobot HQ onwards, despite the ugliest Energon advert ever really pissing me off.

As to where it's going? I'd say not to the big shutdown. Weren't the Ark crew meant to be long gone by then? If they squeeze that into #6, it'll actually give WW V1 #6 a run for being a crappy conclusion. That said, I'm not giving it a lot of thought, just enjoying the ride and hoping for once Furman can give us a decent conclusion... For me, though, #5 is the worst issue of the series by a fair distance - which is more because the first 4 were bloody great, rather than #5 being diabolical.

And if all else fails, it's better than Energon.

EDIT: And yes, TF:WW would really, really benefit from an ongoing. The whole series is reliant on selling to the kind of hardcore fans who'd buy every month anyway. Plus, without the six-issue restriction, and the market that'll appreciate standalones and the lot, we can see if Furman's still really got it.

Strafe · Post by **Strafe** » Sat Apr 03, 2004 4:11 pm

Originally posted by Cliffjumper

As to where it's going? I'd say not to the big shutdown. Weren't the Ark crew meant to be long gone by then?

I dunno, I never read Volume 2, but from what I've pieced together, it seems to have happened after the Ark went off. In that case, the Fallen could be initiating the chain of events that leads to the Big Shutdown that may occur several volumes down the road. WW Vol 3 could be a sort of Matrix Quest remake where we get teams of Bots and cons scouring the planet trying to look for a way to stop the shutdown.

If they squeeze that into #6, it'll actually give WW V1 #6 a run for being a crappy conclusion.

I don't even think Furman would do such a thing. Besides the Fallen just tramples over the bots and cons, so it's not like it's vital to him that he shut down all the bots as soon as possible. His goal is simply the unbinding, and the shutdown just may be a unintended consequence of that action.

So we'll get the unbinding next issue, and down the road the shutdown.

And if all else fails, it's better than Energon.

I haven't gotten 21 yet, but from what I've heard it took a dramatic turn for the better.

Plus, without the six-issue restriction, and the market that'll appreciate standalones and the lot, we can see if Furman's still really got it.

From his brief Armada/Energon run, I'd say he has it, but he just needs the time to properly build up a solid storyline. DW's insistence of stupid 6 issue arcs has to stop.

As Blacksword @ Transfans stated:

Once again the curse of six issues hits DW book. Whoever mandates this crap (most likely Pat Lee) deserves a bullet in the head as this just killed a really good story. Way ta go chaps you guys ****ing suck.

Ugh I'm rereading Ultimates #13 to get the bad taste of this issue out of my mouth. Now there's the way you handle it. story line running long. Give it another issue, and if the story needs it make it a double sized issue. Great ****ing issue, and the way a huge apocalypic battle should be done. Bryan you make take forever but your art is superb and clear.

Cliffjumper · Post by **Cliffjumper** » Sat Apr 03, 2004 4:17 pm

Sadly, the six-issue thing is because comics in general at the moment aren't selling well, and need the money-spinning TPB market. It really sucks, but it's pretty inescapable... pretty much every comic is currently done in 4-6 issue arcs. That said, there's no reason they can't play with it a little bit, and have six basically different issues with a lining theme, kinda like Matrix Quest but good, or even along the lines of G2.

And I would pay $10 an issue cover price if Bryan could be bought [or brought

] back to Transformers.

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