[New RPG] Faith and Religion

[Warcry]

Primus has always been a planet though, hasn't he? I mean, when Unicron started to eat handfuls on the cityscape in the Marvel comics he was screaming in pain. Turning into a robot is taking it a step farther, sure, but it always made sense to me. Or at least, it made as much sense to me as Unicron having a robot mode did.

Personally I think Unicron works better as a threat if we treat him as a giant, hostile sentient planet first and foremost rather than as just another in a series of progressively bigger robots. Him having a robot mode that's small enough for the Transformers to fight has always seemed to me to...I dunno...understate how freaking huge and dangerous he was. He'd be less relatable if he never transformed, sure, but who says a god needs to be relatable?

Honestly neither Primus or Unicron ever really seemed all that godlike to me. In fiction they really only seem to be one notch up from the citybots in terms of size and power. If we're going to use them as characters at some point I'd love to find a way to get across the sheer vastness of their bodies and minds. And I'd like them to be different from each other, too.

BTW, Galvatron, Scourge and Cyclonus -- there from the start, or would be Megatron/Seekers/Insecticons reformatted?

What do you guys think? I'd like to hold them back and only use 'em alongside Unicron, personally.


Do you suppose the Church of Primus would be hierarchical like the Catholic Church, with a robo-pope who's supposedly the infallible font of truth and justice? Would it be like Islam, with an official set of holy books but no single official interpretation of them and no authority figure who can 'speak' for the faith as a whole? Or would it be less-organized than that, with the Church only preaching the basic myths and otherwise encouraging their flock to find their own personal relationship with Primus, so that different characters can have wildly-different takes on the whole thing?

[optimusskids]

I can see Unicron starting off as a Satan like figure that mechs don't really believe in that has faded into myths and legend and a lot of people getting a big shock if he turns up. Their would be a lot of converts in a very short period to Primus' religion if and when he turns up.

Depending on the timescales i can see the religion having veered off in different directions much like in the Life of Brian and having everything from the equivalent of Cathlocism tothe equivalent of the C of E holding Autopart swap meets in order to raise money to give empties hot oil

one way of reconciling the Quintesson and Primus origin stories that just occured to me would be if Primus was the original control computer/ AI for the factory of Cybertron a bit like Asimov's Multivac which since the Quints disappeared has developed and evolved and has been come to be seen over time as a god by the creatures it has created.

Unicron could be a similar computer that has gone rogue either because of the influence of a breakaway group of Quints or because of a flaw in it's programming or even a computer run by a rival trading company which would explain it animosity and why it wants to destroy Primus commercial rivalry had warped in it's mine into religious zealotry and hatred.

A bit of a prosaic explanation but on that reconciles the conflicting reports#

Transformers religion could be a way developed by Primus to prevent anyone mass producing robots and threatening to take over the universe with their numbers. If they were basically commercial products that could just be churned off a production line with personalities downloaded from somewhere it would be easy to just mass produce an army but if mechs believed in allsparks and Matrixes and religion that sort of behaviour would be taboo or considered impossible.

[Blackjack]

Primus has always been a planet though, hasn't he? I mean, when Unicron started to eat handfuls on the cityscape in the Marvel comics he was screaming in pain. Turning into a robot is taking it a step farther, sure, but it always made sense to me. Or at least, it made as much sense to me as Unicron having a robot mode did.

But that simply makes Primus and Unicron literally mirror images of each other, something that I seriously dislike in fiction. (Plus, the first time Primus transforms in the Cybertron series, he got owned by Starscream).

Personally I think Unicron works better as a threat if we treat him as a giant, hostile sentient planet first and foremost rather than as just another in a series of progressively bigger robots. Him having a robot mode that's small enough for the Transformers to fight has always seemed to me to...I dunno...understate how freaking huge and dangerous he was. He'd be less relatable if he never transformed, sure, but who says a god needs to be relatable?

Honestly neither Primus or Unicron ever really seemed all that godlike to me. In fiction they really only seem to be one notch up from the citybots in terms of size and power. If we're going to use them as characters at some point I'd love to find a way to get across the sheer vastness of their bodies and minds. And I'd like them to be different from each other, too.

I would like the whole 'Hate Plague'-esque thing that Unicron can do be explored, more corrupting the innocent (say, with Dark Energon) as well as the whole Entropy thing that the Fallen spouts out about. Make him more a dark god trapped in a physical body instead of just another big Transformer like the original Movie treated him.

Primus, meanwhile, I'd stick with Marvel comics all the way. A bastard light god out of touch with the children he had created... instead of basically a gigantic version of a wise Autobot in the Cybertron cartoon.

What do you guys think? I'd like to hold them back and only use 'em alongside Unicron, personally.

I don't see myself playing as any of the three (maybe Galvatron because of his batshit insanity, but I don't think I'd be allowed another Decepticon WMD on my roster), so either way is fine by me.

I would really, really appreciate if the trio were their own mechs instead of being reformatted Skywarps and Thundercrackers and Insecticons.

Do you suppose the Church of Primus would be hierarchical like the Catholic Church, with a robo-pope who's supposedly the infallible font of truth and justice? Would it be like Islam, with an official set of holy books but no single official interpretation of them and no authority figure who can 'speak' for the faith as a whole? Or would it be less-organized than that, with the Church only preaching the basic myths and otherwise encouraging their flock to find their own personal relationship with Primus, so that different characters can have wildly-different takes on the whole thing?

All of the above, ideally.

As in Earth we have Islam, Catholic and Christian (which stemmed from the same belief), so can the church of Primus have multiple different religions and organizations. It's just hard to maintain that much variety in the little time we'd see the temple, though, so if we have to pick one I like the less-organized thing that tells people to find their own journey.

Vector Prime as a pope would rock, though.

I can see Unicron starting off as a Satan like figure that mechs don't really believe in that has faded into myths and legend and a lot of people getting a big shock if he turns up. Their would be a lot of converts in a very short period to Primus' religion if and when he turns up.

...But also many people that would turn to Unicron, right? Satanism and all that. Hey, it worked when Unicron converted the Fallen! Plus, when Unicron turns up I would see opportunistic people like Starscream going over to the chaos god's side.

one way of reconciling the Quintesson and Primus origin stories that just occured to me would be if Primus was the original control computer/ AI for the factory of Cybertron a bit like Asimov's Multivac which since the Quints disappeared has developed and evolved and has been come to be seen over time as a god by the creatures it has created.

Unicron could be a similar computer that has gone rogue either because of the influence of a breakaway group of Quints or because of a flaw in it's programming or even a computer run by a rival trading company which would explain it animosity and why it wants to destroy Primus commercial rivalry had warped in it's mine into religious zealotry and hatred.

That's basically Eugenesis!

I disliked the idea of Primus and Unicron being treated as computers instead of real gods, though. For all the power Primus and Unicron had, the Quintessons surely would be much more powerful? But Eugenesis was so well written that I can't help but loving it all the way.

[optimusskids]

I did think about that maybe the Quintessons were powerful at the time plus left alone for millenia the computers could have developed far beyond their creators imaginings.

Plus for whatever reason the Quintesson race has regressed maybe because of some civil war and you are left with the remanants of a once great empire surviving as scattered colonies still fairly advanced but nothing like before.

As for satanism yes the obverse is true certain mechs would be attracted to the chaos god.

[Clogs]

Well, being vague about one's origins is what religion is, in part, based on.. multiple theories abound (based on the Creator(s) principle) in our understanding, so why not in that of the Cybertronians? Granted, machines should be able to record absolute information i.e. Boltax's idea, but what if the information has been somehow lost/corrupted over time?

Hm, so let's have Ancient Cybertronian as a programming language that almost everyone(! except Alpha Trion?) has forgotten. Not like Latin - more like the symbols on Easter Island that no one has ever managed to interpret...?

I like the Unicron idea proposed by Warcry. Makes for a sound explanation if we want to keep gods out of this, but introduce their messengers, as it were.

Bearing in mind what has been said in this thread: I would like to explore the possibility that the Cybertronians are indeed programmed to expand their empire - or whatever you'd like to call it - in order to defend Primus. Also, it would explain, in part, why there are colonies out there and why a group might unknowingly land on Unicron. However, mechs like Zeta might interpret this programming as a call to conquest by the righteous. Yeah - that'd make him one Pit of a nasty blastard when it came down to it.

And you think Megatron is maniacally cybercidal? Whoa, when intolerance rules, someone kicks back, so why not him? Interesting, again, to have Megatron start out from a freedom fighter kind of role and blur boundaries which would later firm up as his version of intolerance spread?

*girly squeal*

[Aero Blade]

Hm, so let's have Ancient Cybertronian as a programming language that almost everyone(! except Alpha Trion?) has forgotten. Not like Latin - more like the symbols on Easter Island that no one has ever managed to interpret...?

This is an idea I've had for myself as well, Ancient Cybertronian dialects and/or coding. I wouldn't extended it to just Alpha Trion, though. Likely those that are protecting the temples and relics would also know the language as well, but they're not likely to share this knowledge with anyone who isn't inside of their circle.

I could also see the old language as useful to them in situations where they might want to keep things private, using it like a secret code. Even more reason for Megatron to want them removed, or perhaps even try to capture them for the knowledge to aid in his attemp to destroy opposition.

*girly squeal*

[Blackjack]

Well, being vague about one's origins is what religion is, in part, based on.. multiple theories abound (based on the Creator(s) principle) in our understanding, so why not in that of the Cybertronians? Granted, machines should be able to record absolute information i.e. Boltax's idea, but what if the information has been somehow lost/corrupted over time?

Yeah, better do that. I like it when origins when are kept obscure.

I like the Unicron idea proposed by Warcry. Makes for a sound explanation if we want to keep gods out of this, but introduce their messengers, as it were.

One of you RPG staffers better introduce the Fallen somewhere down the line or I'll cry.

Hm, so let's have Ancient Cybertronian as a programming language that almost everyone(! except Alpha Trion?) has forgotten. Not like Latin - more like the symbols on Easter Island that no one has ever managed to interpret...?

This is an idea I've had for myself as well, Ancient Cybertronian dialects and/or coding. I wouldn't extended it to just Alpha Trion, though. Likely those that are protecting the temples and relics would also know the language as well, but they're not likely to share this knowledge with anyone who isn't inside of their circle.

"It's the language of the Primes! I don't read this, but these guys, they'll translate it for you. They're Seekers, pal, Seekers, the oldest of the old!"

It would make sense, I guess. Ancient Cybertronian, Modern Cybertronian...

[Warcry]

I can see Unicron starting off as a Satan like figure that mechs don't really believe in that has faded into myths and legend and a lot of people getting a big shock if he turns up. Their would be a lot of converts in a very short period to Primus' religion if and when he turns up.

I'd actually think people would be more likely to abandon their faith in the face of Satan showing up to destroy the world, since Primus obviously isn't doing much to protect them. But maybe I'm just more cynical than you.

But that simply makes Primus and Unicron literally mirror images of each other, something that I seriously dislike in fiction. (Plus, the first time Primus transforms in the Cybertron series, he got owned by Starscream).

But Primus is supposed to be Unicron's mirror image. It's the whole point of him, to be "a yin to Unicron's yang".

I'd rather see agents of Primus and Unicron fighting it out than the gods themselves, though.

I disliked the idea of Primus and Unicron being treated as computers instead of real gods, though. For all the power Primus and Unicron had, the Quintessons surely would be much more powerful?

Me too. And the Quintessons are comedy tentacle aliens, not Cthulhu. I can't wrap my brain around the concept of them being strong enough to subvert the will of a god.

Hm, so let's have Ancient Cybertronian as a programming language that almost everyone(! except Alpha Trion?) has forgotten. Not like Latin - more like the symbols on Easter Island that no one has ever managed to interpret...?

Programming languages don't work that way. If it's actually in use for anything (say, the code that runs a Transformer's OS, or the Vector computers) then it would need to be compiled into 1s and 0s before it could be executed. And once it's been reduced to binary it would be a fairly trivial (if time-consuming) task to decipher it into a modern language. There could be religious taboos and/or secular laws against it, but all it would take is a single mad scientist with the right resources to do it.

Mind you, the code itself would probably be so hideously complicated that it would be hard to follow what it actually does even once it's been translated into something readable. Considering how complex Transformers are it would be an undertaking some orders of magnitude greater than the Human Genome Project to understand it all, but if they're just looking for a specific thing (like, say, how to give a Transformer five alt-modes... ) it would be doable.

Of course, if the church and the state are both trying to suppress such knowledge it might fall to the Decepticons to be the only ones willing to fund this kind of research. If Megatron has been in charge of Kaon for some time before our story starts (either seizing power or even being elected because of his massive charisma) the city could be a Mecca for scientists who want to conduct their work without being repressed by ancient superstitions.

However, mechs like Zeta might interpret this programming as a call to conquest by the righteous. Yeah - that'd make him one Pit of a nasty blastard when it came down to it.

Wouldn't that actually make him Nova Prime, not Zeta? He'd certainly be nothing like the well-meaning but somewhat ineffectual old man that War For Cybertron made Zeta out to be.

Nova Prime works for me though, if that's what you want to do.

[Blackjack]

But Primus is supposed to be Unicron's mirror image. It's the whole point of him, to be "a yin to Unicron's yang".

Maybe.

Doesn't excuse the fact that robot mode Primus was executed like crap, though. Not that Unicron was much better, mind, but TFTM and On the Edge of Extinction gave his robot mode a couple of Crowning Moments of Awesome that made it worthwile. All I remembered robot mode Primus doing was getting owned by Starscream, owning Starscream, possessing Jolt and later on using a gigantic, phallic ship as a cannon. And aiming it down a hole.

Plus, I don't think a robot-on-robot battle would particularly work out well...

I'd rather see agents of Primus and Unicron fighting it out than the gods themselves, though.

Now this, I agree with.

Me too. And the Quintessons are comedy tentacle aliens, not Cthulhu. I can't wrap my brain around the concept of them being strong enough to subvert the will of a god.

Quintessons are either money-minded mercenaries (season three), sadistic manipulators obsessed with Transformers' destruction (Space Pirates, FFOD and a couple other episodes that overlap with the former), or a bunch of kangaroo court, which I don't think have been pursued much outside TFTM.

Cthulhu. Ahahaha.

Mind you, the code itself would probably be so hideously complicated that it would be hard to follow what it actually does even once it's been translated into something readable. Considering how complex Transformers are it would be an undertaking some orders of magnitude greater than the Human Genome Project to understand it all, but if they're just looking for a specific thing (like, say, how to give a Transformer five alt-modes... ) it would be doable.

That's what one-eyes purple scientists with no emotions are supposed to do, what?

Come on, Shockwave has to do something to earn his paycheck other than being easily the most badass Decepticon in history.

Of course, if the church and the state are both trying to suppress such knowledge it might fall to the Decepticons to be the only ones willing to fund this kind of research.

Massively liking this. Might be something Zeta or Sentinel Prime orders to do in case something horrendously mutated comes out, kind of like IDW's Thunderwing.

If Megatron has been in charge of Kaon for some time before our story starts (either seizing power or even being elected because of his massive charisma) the city could be a Mecca for scientists who want to conduct their work without being repressed by ancient superstitions.

Which would lead to the aforementioned transformer with five alternate modes, yes?

Wouldn't that actually make him Nova Prime, not Zeta? He'd certainly be nothing like the well-meaning but somewhat ineffectual old man that War For Cybertron made Zeta out to be.

Eh, always viewed Nova Prime as IDW's Sentinel Prime with an actual personality, and a kind of overconfident and disillusioned war veteran that has grown, how do you say... senile over the years. Basically filling the whole 'old Star Trek captain before Kirk takes the helm' trope or whatever it is called.

IDW Nova Prime is a self-justified expansionist which I dearly love, though. Nemesis Prime FTW! Never mind that he gets the most pisspoor exit in IDW, after all the big deal made out of him before he gets taken out by someone he didn't expect.

[Clogs]

I'd actually think people would be more likely to abandon their faith in the face of Satan showing up to destroy the world, since Primus obviously isn't doing much to protect them. But maybe I'm just more cynical than you.

Yup, but it is a definite possibility in human behaviourism.

Wouldn't that actually make him Nova Prime, not Zeta? He'd certainly be nothing like the well-meaning but somewhat ineffectual old man that War For Cybertron made Zeta out to be.

Nova Prime works for me though, if that's what you want to do.

No, Zeta as an intolerant leader trying to put the population in it's place. A bit of a bumbler, making mistakes, getting it wrong, but not Nova... In fact, I was thinking that he abhors what Nova did (going out there with a part of the Sacred Flame which is now lost to the planet) and is trying to put it right. That could mean he alternates between an incompetent, led by others, and over-reacting nastily to make his point.

If Nova is to be treated as having set off with a hand-picked crew, that is? Gives us the opportunity for a colony, perhaps the one that inadvertently lands on Unicron?

[Blackjack]

Yup, but it is a definite possibility in human behaviourism.

Oh, just imagine what would happen if in the Marvel comics if Unicron, who is basically Satan, simply came looming over Cybertron. Many's first instinct would be RUN RUN RUNNNN! Hell, even the normally stoic Bludgeon did this in the comic itself, and Primus was standing right beside him.

Minds would literally shut down, like Highbrow and Brainstorm in the Marvel comics, as well as Shockwave. Poor, poor Shockwave who can't get his mind around the concept of dark gods.

But what if someone like, say, Starscream haven't been warned about this prior by Primus? I would bet you that he would try to make an ally out of Unicron, convert to Satanism so to speak. Megatron did this as well (well, tried to) in the Dreamwave Armada comics' conclusion. The alure of power is just that great.

No, Zeta as an intolerant leader trying to put the population in it's place. A bit of a bumbler, making mistakes, getting it wrong, but not Nova... In fact, I was thinking that he abhors what Nova did (going out there with a part of the Sacred Flame which is now lost to the planet) and is trying to put it right. That could mean he alternates between an incompetent, led by others, and over-reacting nastily to make his point.

Maybe. Zeta always struck me as this old, slightly arrogant, somewhat ineffectual old man that's past his prime, so to speak, but is still good enough to put up a fight against Megatron. Definitely not the crazy expansionist that Nova Prime was.

If Nova is to be treated as having set off with a hand-picked crew, that is? Gives us the opportunity for a colony, perhaps the one that inadvertently lands on Unicron?

Maybe as a background information that we might pursue later on when we want to introduce Unicron. Characters could name drop this event several times. IMO we have enough on-Cybertron plot threads as it is...

[Brave Maximus]

Do you suppose the Church of Primus would be hierarchical like the Catholic Church, with a robo-pope who's supposedly the infallible font of truth and justice? Would it be like Islam, with an official set of holy books but no single official interpretation of them and no authority figure who can 'speak' for the faith as a whole? Or would it be less-organized than that, with the Church only preaching the basic myths and otherwise encouraging their flock to find their own personal relationship with Primus, so that different characters can have wildly-different takes on the whole thing?

I like the idea of a totalitarian church... or at least, what once was.
Which would make this:

Of course, if the church and the state are both trying to suppress such knowledge it might fall to the Decepticons to be the only ones willing to fund this kind of research. If Megatron has been in charge of Kaon for some time before our story starts (either seizing power or even being elected because of his massive charisma) the city could be a Mecca for scientists who want to conduct their work without being repressed by ancient superstitions.

Freakin awesome.

Essentially the Decepticons turned into the Illuminati.... A group who opposed the church to do scientific research and then used that knowledge and power to try and take over society....

Anyway... having a bit of an idea, but it's far too late in the evening... I'll try and write something in the next 24hrs

[Warcry]

Plus, I don't think a robot-on-robot battle would particularly work out well...

No, probably not. But it would be hilarious(ly bad).

That's what one-eyes purple scientists with no emotions are supposed to do, what?

Or brown, grey and off-white ones that just happen to look a lot like Transmetal Megatron? Or big, purple and green ones with claws, or flying egomaniacal white ones with blue, silver and red stripes...

Depends on who's being played and what their jobs are, really.

Which would lead to the aforementioned transformer with five alternate modes, yes?

Oh, it would certainly be a viable possibility. In fact, Megatron's first raid on a temple could well be so that they can get access to a Vector computer and corrupt its' programming to produce Sixshot.

If Nova is to be treated as having set off with a hand-picked crew, that is? Gives us the opportunity for a colony, perhaps the one that inadvertently lands on Unicron?

I don't think we'll have time to delve into such ancient history right off the bat, but it does make a lot of sense.

Maybe. Zeta always struck me as this old, slightly arrogant, somewhat ineffectual old man that's past his prime, so to speak, but is still good enough to put up a fight against Megatron. Definitely not the crazy expansionist that Nova Prime was.

That was how I read him too, TBH.

Essentially the Decepticons turned into the Illuminati...

Oh great, now I'm going to hear Morgan Everett talking every time I read Megatron's lines...

[Blackjack]

No, probably not. But it would be hilarious(ly bad).

Exactly... and Primus won't have a need for robot mode either. He's got an army of cannon fodder disposable expendable creations err, children to protect him. While Unicron has to have something to slap Transformers around if he doesn't want to be blown up Death Star style.

Or brown, grey and off-white ones that just happen to look a lot like Transmetal Megatron?

Um, Armada Predacon?

Or big, purple and green ones with claws,

Dear old Scorpy!

or flying egomaniacal white ones with blue, silver and red stripes...

You lost me at this one. Deluge? Scalpel? Umm.. repainted Constructicons? Fistfight? (Someone has to make Fistfight Igor to Shockwave's Frankenstein.)

Depends on who's being played and what their jobs are, really.

Aye. Depending on which 'G1' he is in, Scorponok is either a guilt-ridden general, a mindless WMD, a mad scientist, a Bond villain, a zombie, a bland villain, a conflicted anti-hero...

Oh, it would certainly be a viable possibility. In fact, Megatron's first raid on a temple could well be so that they can get access to a Vector computer and corrupt its' programming to produce Sixshot.

Squeeeee!

Obsidian and Scorponok would happily lead the raid for Megatron.

Essentially the Decepticons turned into the Illuminati.... A group who opposed the church to do scientific research and then used that knowledge and power to try and take over society....

Hey, another older player is coming back! Hi, Brave Max!

Yeah, I could see the Decepticons doing that. Maybe stuff like Sixshot, the Combiners, the Pretenders, the Micromasters... heck, maybe even the Insecticons' cloning powers (a possible plot point in the new RPG with limitations) could be gained from old arts contained inside whatever stuff the church guys guarded.

[Aero Blade]

I'm gonna jump briefly back on the Quintesson thing that was further up the thread, and say I agree with the thought that they may have once been far more powerful creatures to have nestled their way into controlling Cybertron. Transformers are quite organized and powerful creatures - when you look at modern Quintessons, the equation of them taking over just doesn't work.

Now what they were in the past is probably strongly debatable (I have some extensive ideas myself) but we wouldn't really be able to explore that without backing the board up way way far into the past. I think however we could probably sum it up as them having gotten weak, lazy, and complacent with their slaves having done everything for them, to the point where their slaves were able to overthrow their previous superiors. Whatever past glory the Quints have is now far out of reach. Maybe....

[Blackjack]

Perhaps the Quintessons had some kind of civil war, causing the older Imperial Majestrix (or whatever you call him) and the competent high guard to be killed. And the new Imperial Majestrix might be incompetent or something similar, allowing the Transformers to rise up.

Plus it would hauntingly be reminiscent to the Autobots and Decepticons' Civil War.

I've particularly liked Eugenesis and 3H having the Quintessons conquer and dominate Cybertron when Primus is dormant, and then assuming control of the Transformers, retaking control over the Vector computers and their production.

Personally — screw the Quintessons. Let us tell the story of the Transformers, introduce the Quints later on when necessary.

[Brave Maximus]

Hey, another older player is coming back! Hi, Brave Max!

Yeah, I could see the Decepticons doing that. Maybe stuff like Sixshot, the Combiners, the Pretenders, the Micromasters... heck, maybe even the Insecticons' cloning powers (a possible plot point in the new RPG with limitations) could be gained from old arts contained inside whatever stuff the church guys guarded.

/wave

I was looking at it from a slightly different angle. Not so much arts contained with in - but vast ammounts of untapped information. The church never would have allowed anyone to do research into it.
Think of how the old catholic church (Even the Rabbi's or the Mosque) controlled who married, kept track of birth/Baptisim records, the whole nine yards - I think the Church of Primus would have hidden the code away to prevent anyone from developing that kind of advancement. To keep the Code pure as Primus intended us to be and not a modified abomination from the Pit-Spawned Inferno of Unicron that the Decepticons would have us become.

[Blackjack]

I was looking at it from a slightly different angle. Not so much arts contained with in - but vast ammounts of untapped information. The church never would have allowed anyone to do research into it. Think of how the old catholic church (Even the Rabbi's or the Mosque) controlled who married, kept track of birth/Baptisim records, the whole nine yards - I think the Church of Primus would have hidden the code away to prevent anyone from developing that kind of advancement. To keep the Code pure as Primus intended us to be and not a modified abomination from the Pit-Spawned Inferno of Unicron that the Decepticons would have us become.

Aye. From what I gathered from our little schemings here, I kind of thought of it like some kind of analogue to the humans' complete genome or something like that.

Understandably the church and pragmatic guys like Zeta or Sentinel wouldn't want bureaucrats having access to resources that would allow them to produce an army of gestalts and six-changers. The fallout and potential for power perversion would be too big to handle.

Actually I would like to see 'superpowers' being gained from these cryptic Codes of Primus as well. Like Mirage's invisibility, or Skywarp's teleportation, or Blurr's superspeed, or Rotorstorm's spider sense, or Skyfall's I-can-transform-into-anything-power... would give a plausible explanation for their uniqueness if they were created with codes spliced from the hidden stuff in the Vector computers.

[Springer85]

Actually I would like to see 'superpowers' being gained from these cryptic Codes of Primus as well. Like Mirage's invisibility, or Skywarp's teleportation, or Blurr's superspeed, or Rotorstorm's spider sense, or Skyfall's I-can-transform-into-anything-power... would give a plausible explanation for their uniqueness if they were created with codes spliced from the hidden stuff in the Vector computers.

I would love to see something like that too.

[Aero Blade]

Agreed with the above. If those abilities were made via technology that was installed on them, we'd easily have an army of drone bots with Starscream's null rays, Mirage's invisibility, Soundwave's telepathy, and Skywarp's teleporting. There probably wouldn't be much left of Cybertron once the war was over.

Vector Sigma I could see as the main repository for the the transformers master-code, which it encrypts key pieces onto certain sparks that would be most suited to it. This would be why some mechs get spectacular abilities, while most others are just relatively standard transformers.

This also means whatever mechs are guarding and protecting the temples are also likely to be protecting Vector Sigma. With Megs on a tirade to remove religion, I could see him attacking the religious centers to drive away extra troops in a bid to try taking over Vector Sigma with the defense compliment down. If he could gain control of the master spark computer, he could potentially try using it to produce an army of loyal super-power troops for his purposes.