Something I'm hating about DC

CounterPunch · Post by **CounterPunch** » Tue Feb 06, 2007 10:11 am

Theyve gone back to every man woman and child having a prodigy.

I'm reading Teen Titans at the moment and we have a female Captain Atom called Bombshell, we have a cousin of Zatanna called Zatara, we have Power Boy who is in some way related to Power Girl. We have "Miss Martian", Kid Devil, Young Frankenstein, Plastic Mans kid(s)

Post by **zigzagger** » Tue Feb 06, 2007 10:23 am

Yeah, these characters do sound a bit...generic.
It seems to be the premise behind female/kid characters - that they are extensions to their senior/male/etc counterparts, in name sake, and often, powers. I suppose DC could be getting desperate....I guess.

CounterPunch · Post by **CounterPunch** » Tue Feb 06, 2007 10:54 am

I'm liking a couple of them, Kid Devil for instance, and theres a nice twist with Miss Martian, but it just stunts alot of originality. I dont know why but DC are making "family" their no.1 priority, what with kids showing up in Batman and (supposedly, even tho i havent read it) Superman, the Justice Society of America storyline (which I must admit is good) and this Teen Titans stuff.

Post by **Hound** » Tue Feb 06, 2007 7:01 pm

Well, it's not like any of them are actual sidekicks, aside from Robin of course...

Kid Devil came from trying to be mind. Most of the characters they've introduced have no relationship with the character they happen to be a younger version of. I doubt Captain Atom is aware that there is a younger female that sort of has his powers and look out there.

I wonder though, how come Green Lantern never had a sidekick?

CounterPunch · Post by **CounterPunch** » Tue Feb 06, 2007 7:29 pm

Oh no I know they arent all sidekicks but its more from a creative standpoint, I wouldnt mind seeing some new heroes in DC who arent intrinsically connected in one way or another to someone else.

DrSpengler · Post by **DrSpengler** » Tue Feb 06, 2007 7:32 pm

Clogs · Post by **Clogs** » Tue Feb 06, 2007 9:50 pm

This is the kind of information that reminds me why I read Marvel.

Wolfang · Post by **Wolfang** » Tue Feb 06, 2007 11:46 pm

Originally posted by DrSpengler
AND Earth has, what, 4 Lantern's at the moment (counting Alan).

Does Ion still count? Does that make it 5? Is Jade still dead? Aaah...

And for the record: I like Alan Scott a little more than Hal Jordan. Might be the whole 'not-going-crazy-and-attempting-to-destroy-the-universe' thing, as well as being a member of the Justice Society (the new series has gotten off to a great start, IMO).

But yeah- DCs whole 'teen protege for every hero in their universe' is getting a little tiresome. But having two of Deathstroke's kids on the Titans team is ace.

But I'm reminded of something Luthor said in 'Superman/Batman: Public Enemies': I'm just paraphrasing, I'm afraid, but it was something along the lines of 'For a man who has a reputation as a lone wolf, Batman is awfully fond of surrounding himself with children'. (Reading that back now, it just sounds creepy...)

But when you consider there've been 3 Robins (including Tim), Nightwing, 3 Batgirls (including Cassandra Cain- BOOOO!), and Spoiler- and I'll go out on a limb and say that there are people ommited form that list- then I see Luthor's point. But it means alot of this is down to: a) Batman enslaving children to help him; b) superhumans not being able to gurd their loins and c) some sloppy writing.

Dead Man Wade · Post by **Dead Man Wade** » Wed Feb 07, 2007 1:56 am

Originally posted by Wolfang
Does Ion still count?

He's still very much a part of the Corps, so yes.

Originally posted by Clogs
This is the kind of information that reminds me why I read Marvel.

Yeah, cause Marvel's never driven a concept into the ground...

DrSpengler · Post by **DrSpengler** » Wed Feb 07, 2007 2:11 am

Alpha Trion · Post by **Alpha Trion** » Wed Feb 07, 2007 2:31 am

Originally posted by DrSpengler
I think one thing that makes Marvel a tad more accessible is that they don't have a "Crisis" every decade which completely rewrites continuity and means everything you thought you knew doesn't matter anymore.

That's exactly why I haven't been able to get into DC. I've read so many wikis trying to understand the Crises, but it's absolutely mind-boggling. Is everything published before Infinite Crisis now non-canon?

I picked up Justice Society #1 on a whim though, and was very impressed. The cast of that book is completely unknown to me, and I find that more appealing than the League, with its ever-present Big Three.

DrSpengler · Post by **DrSpengler** » Wed Feb 07, 2007 2:50 am

Post by **Hound** » Wed Feb 07, 2007 4:16 am

Originally posted by DrSpengler
I think one thing that makes Marvel a tad more accessible is that they don't have a "Crisis" every decade which completely rewrites continuity and means everything you thought you knew doesn't matter anymore.

Amazing Fantasy #15 is still Spider-Man's first appearance, where-as Action Comics #1 means crap-all to the current Superman.

It also means that all the really goofy stupid crap that they threw in back in the 60s and 70s still happened. It means that Iron Man's armor at one point really did have roller skates. Spider Clone Saga really happened...

With DC there's a good chance that some of the most awful stuff that's been written about a character may just be rendered disregardable.

I don't see how understanding how Crisis on Infinite Earths or Infinte Crisis has changed continuity is necessary to enjoy the stories that are being written now. Or even to enjoy stories that were written before.

Alan Moore wrote a few really great Superman stories, and I mean really really great. They have no place in current continuity, that still doesn't change that they kick ass.

Sometimes big continuity changing events make for good stories, sometimes not. Sometimes they lead into some of the best stories ever. Like Batman: Year One. It would have never been told if not for Crisis.

I'm not too bothered by comic characters being reinvented. Peter David did it with Aquaman, pretty much disregarding about everything that came before, and his run was the best Aquaman has ever been.

Hawkworld is one of the best stories ever and it turned Hawkman's conituity into a massive train wreck.

The DC universe is complex, much moreso than Marvel. I can see where that would be a turn off for some. For me, it's why I started reading DC comics. It's not simple, it's a challenge to reconcile nearly 70 years of history.

Also, I wouldn't say that DC has gone back to every character having a prodigy. Teen Titans has just had a story where they introduce a few characters that represent younger versions of established characters. You're not seeing the whole of the DCU suddenly starring these new characters. To imply that would be to exxagerate...

Dead Man Wade · Post by **Dead Man Wade** » Wed Feb 07, 2007 6:47 am

Originally posted by DrSpengler
I think one thing that makes Marvel a tad more accessible is that they don't have a "Crisis" every decade which completely rewrites continuity and means everything you thought you knew doesn't matter anymore.

Well, let's review for a moment...

DC: Big event once every ten years or so, with smaller ones interspersed throughout. As Hound says, understanding the various Crises isn't necessary to enjoy the current stuff, and the smaller events are such that they only encompass one family of books (meaning you don't have to buy 40 books per month to follow the storyline). Don't read Batman? You can ignore "Knightfall". Superman doesn't do it for you? His death isn't going to get you too worked up.

Marvel: Big, "universe-altering event" once every year (at least), usually coming out of nowhere, that includes at least two issues of most of their books. The consequences wind up being ignored within a year or two, rendering the whole thing moot.

Clogs · Post by **Clogs** » Wed Feb 07, 2007 2:21 pm

Originally posted by Dead Man Wade
Yeah, cause Marvel's never driven a concept into the ground...

Not

that

deep....

Halfshell · Post by **Halfshell** » Wed Feb 07, 2007 2:33 pm

Originally posted by Hound
I wonder though, how come Green Lantern never had a sidekick?

Didn't he share a book with Green Arrow for a while? Would that count?

The Spengs:
I think one thing that makes Marvel a tad more accessible is that they don't have a "Crisis" every decade which completely rewrites continuity and means everything you thought you knew doesn't matter anymore.

Amazing Fantasy #15 is still Spider-Man's first appearance, where-as Action Comics #1 means crap-all to the current Superman.

I remember having a conversation with my sister a while back where she said Smallville was rubbish because it has no continuity with anything. I decided not to bring in the fact that not even the comics have continuity with themselves anymore, and opted instead for the "no, there are far more substantial reasons for it being rubbish" argument.

Post by **Hound** » Wed Feb 07, 2007 5:46 pm

Originally posted by Dead Man Wade
Marvel: Big, "universe-altering event" once every year (at least), usually coming out of nowhere, that includes at least two issues of most of their books. The consequences wind up being ignored within a year or two, rendering the whole thing moot.

Actually now that you mention it, did House of M actually leave any real lasting effects? I don't read much outside of a couple of X-Men books from Marvel but it seems that any major character that lost their powers were given them back somehow. Seems it's been largely disregarded to me.

Are there any characters playing pivotal roles in a comic book that actually did lose their powers and didn't get them back?

The only thing I can think of that was caused by House of M is that Wolverine now remembers everything about his past, that hasn't been reversed.

Dead Man Wade · Post by **Dead Man Wade** » Wed Feb 07, 2007 8:32 pm

Originally posted by Hound
Actually now that you mention it, did House of M actually leave any real lasting effects?

Onslaught and Hawkeye are back.

Are there any characters playing pivotal roles in a comic book that actually did lose their powers and didn't get them back?

Xavier.

Cliffjumper · Post by **Cliffjumper** » Wed Feb 07, 2007 8:36 pm

I used to be Marvel-mad. Marvel this, Marvel that. But the truth is every company has produced so much sh!t, shared universe or not (even Fleetway had the Phantom bloody Viking), the best way to do things (which, for the sake of modesty, I should point out took me something like seven years of collecting comics to realise) is just to cherry-pick the good from the bad, instead of claiming "I hate company Y, because they do this. Company Z is much better".

It's the 21st century. Thanks to Joe Q and Infinite Crisis, continuity is now optional. It's done, the bomb's dropped, they've ****ed any odea of it all slotting together in the arse. So break off the bits you enjoy, and screw the rest. Example? Captain Britain and Pete Wisdom are both currently being bum-raped by Chris Claremont (or would be, if he wasn't dying or something). Know what I did about it? Never picked up New Excalibur. How can it be damaging my favourite characters if I've never read it?

DrSpengler · Post by **DrSpengler** » Wed Feb 07, 2007 8:41 pm