Illegal Downloading

[CounterPunch]

OK,

I dont think this has been done recently, and we have new posters so I figured "Why not"

What are your views on illegal downloading??

My views on illegal downloading are that if I were to download it would be stuff that -

-I either wouldnt own anyway, and if downloading wasnt available I wouldnt bother seeing it. Case in point Bad Boys II, I got it cos I wanted to see what it was like, I wouldnt pay money to see it even if downloading wasnt available, I'd jus not bother seein it.

-Or stuff that I'm definitely going to get on DVD, as a sh*tty pirate copy is no replacement for a crystal clear version.

So with these 2 I dont really see how money is being lost by these companies, as I'm either going to buy it on DVD anyway or its going to be something I wouldnt even bother seeing if I didnt have a downloaded copy.

I'm aware this is only DVDs I've covered but I figured I'd jus give the one I have the most precise opinion on.

What bout everyone else? What are your opinions on illegalling downloading films/tv shows/cartoons, games, music, comics etc

[Denyer]

There's a ton of stuff in online circulation that's been out of print for years and is exceedingly unlikely to come back into.

I think it's also a good way to preview stuff, and anything I'm inclined to re-read or listen to I'll aim to pick up in due course -- in that sense, it functions in the much the same way as libraries and passing items around amongst peer groups.

I think a bigger growing problem for media cartels is that there's now well over half a century of existing quality content already out there, and most of it's cheap and increasingly available. Why should I care about mostly rubbish current film remakes and sequel machines? I'd much rather pick up a copy of, say, Vertigo on a whim and watch it with friends.

And the best thing about classic cinema is that much of it is already well-identified, talked about, written about, featured in documentaries, etc.

[Dinobot]

If there's a new track out by an artist I like I'll download it, but buy the album when it becomes available. I also download tracks that have an apperance by an artist I like but are on an album not buy that artist that I would never consider buying...

[inflatable dalek]

Anything I'd tape of the telly but wouldn't bother to buy on DVD (that's if I actually had the ability/knowhow to download tat).

[Halfshell]

Generally speaking, I only download things that aren't commercially available. If there was a legal way for me to obtain the material, I would do so. And frequently do - if I've downloaded a tv show, I'll buy the DVD when it's released and clear the HD space.

Music... is a greyer area. A lot of remixes are only available on vinyl, which I have no way of playing, and seeing as most of my listening is done to whilst out and about, wouldn't be that convenient even if it I could. So I'll download the track... I'd pay to download it through iTunes if it wasn't for their stupid DRM package which makes transferring it to my mp3 player too much hassle, and also the fact that they charge me about a third more than they would if I lived in any other country in the world.

Same goes for bonus tracks and stuff. I'm not buying an import copy of an album I already own just for the sake of getting the two tracks that they've chucked on the end of it for Japanese consumers. No, I'm going to download the buggers from p2p.

I've also probably chucked a lot more money down legit channels due to downloading, anyway. It lets me sample TV shows that I can't get on terrestrial, before I decide I want to part with £40 for the DVDs. And also lets me download totally random tracks I never would have listened to normally, then go out and buy the proper album.

And, encouragingly, an increasing number of tv producers and bands seem to be cottoning onto things like this. Say what you will about their music, but Arctic Monkeys are proof positive that illegal filesharing doesn't hurt business as much as certain people would have you believe.

[Ozz]

I'm not really keen on buying pigs in a poke. Downloading and reading comic scans is the reason why I now have small (and still growing) collection of TPBs and buy several titles monthly. I wouldn't even get back into comics few years ago if it weren't for the evil evil illegal downloading. Same for other stuff.

[Hound]

I have an ever increasing collection of comics scans that I've downloaded.

None of it is stuff that is newly released though. It's my opinion that if DC cares that I have Messner-Loebs' entire run of Wonder Woman downloaded then they ought to have it available in TPB. They make no money from back issue sales.

I don't download comics if it's just as easy for me to go buy them. I much prefer to have a comic I can take and read wherever I am.

If they start collecting Silver Age Aquaman I'll be first in line to buy it, until then I've got the scans to browse through.

That and how else am I supposed to have read Miracleman?

[Ozz]

I'm really glad that Marvel decided to release old series in TPBs. There're Excalibur, The New Mutants, Wolverine, PAD's X-Factor... I hope they eventually also do New Warriors, Generation X and Claremont's Uncanny X-Men in a sensible format.

[optihut]

Originally posted by Brendocon
I'd pay to download it through iTunes if it wasn't for their stupid DRM package which makes transferring it to my mp3 player too much hassle

This is what I am always pondering when these debates spring up: The music industry continuously whines about falling sales, but aren't they causing those by alienating their customers with sh*t like DRM? Thanks to region codes on DVDs and the DRM incident, I for one am on an active Sony boycott.

As for downloading stuff - sampling is perfectly ok in my book. I can't really comment on the legal aspects as I am not a lawyer, but I also believe that some of the things that are widely branded as "illegal" are in fact perfectly legal, despite the industry's lobbying to outlaw personal backups and other such things.

[Cliffjumper]

I tihnk it's okay for sampling, as outlined by most people above, and for anything either unreleased or deleted. The latter especially is something I feel strongly about. David Bowie gets no more money from me shelling out £20 for a second-hand copy of "Buddha of Suburbia" than he does from me getting it from P2P. Bootlegs of unreleased material are also fair game, as often they're not going to be officially released - Bowie, for one, encourages the practise.

I also consider it fair enough to download anything I already own on either LP or cassette (though in the case of the former I tend to rip it to MP3 myself). I'm not paying twice for the same album, especially as most remasterings are utter toss.

Of course, like most people who fileshare, I also tend to download lots of stuff freely avaliable in the shops if I don't have the money.

[Jetfire]

I stuck to things I'll certainly get which isn't currently available like Clerks 2 which only came out. Now I was bored in the summer and I knew for sure I'll buy a Kevn Smith film on DVD when it comes out so I downloaded it.

The Sopranos I download because while I don't have sky. However I have acess to it as my Sister does have Sky. But is it worth making a 40 minute train journey to watch my favorite TV show when I can leave the computer running the night before?
I have access to it so it isn't pirating, I'm just making life easier for myself.

The have series 1 to 5 on DVD anyway. In fact I have over 500 DVD's and 150 videos so it's not as if I have any aim to steal TV programs or films.

There is also the other arguement, which is that when downloading music and file sharing became common, CD sales went up (around 2004/2005 onward) after a couple of years slump, because people could try out things they didn't know about, enjoy and buy a propper copy.

[CounterPunch]

What is the legality of downloading TV rips of shows?

[Cliffjumper]

It's not any more legal (well, beyond anything that's public domain) than anything else - you're not even really meant to record stuff directly from the telly for archiving purposes.

[TFArchive]

I download quite a bit of stuff every month, some rare, some commerically available that I can't see myself spending $20+ on.

My most common download items are:

Cartoons from CN: Code Lyoko, Fantastic Four, JL/TT (when they were new), etc. I could get all of these from YTV/Teletoon in a year or so but when I have someone already encoding and uploading them to a common place why should I wait. If there is a show I like I will buy it, I own all of the DC toons shows from the recent years.

TV shows: I download most of the shows I watch so I have a copy to refer to later on, ie 13 week prison break layoff. I also have my PVR record everything I plan to watch so I don't see as having a 2nd digital copy as piracy. I'd buy a lot more TV shows on DVD if they were cheaper, I can't pay $50+ for a 13 ep show, sorry HBO/FX, I'm happy to pay $20-30 per season if it is a show I like. A lot of the non-fox animated season sets have be very cheap in recent months, JL/TT/BB, etc are like $17 CDN per season, I'll spend that in a heart beat. He-man was only like $40 CDN per season with pre-ordering, again if the cost is reasonable I will purchase the sets. I pay $80 a mont for satillite that is plenty in my book. Plus some great shows over the years have been cancelled never to be released on DVD so if there weren't non-degrading digital copies out there we would be back to the VHS copying game and some stuff would be lost forever.

Movies: I used to buy a lot of movies every month but frankly there are very few movies in recent years that warrant purchase, especially when there is the inevitable 'special edition/directors cut' only 6 months away Some of the movies I will buy, LOTR/X-men, and major releases I will usually buy.

Anime: I also used to buy quote a bit of anime and I probably own close to 600 DVDs worth of anime. But frankly I don't have time to watch half of what I have so there isn't much point in buying more unless it is a major series/movie. I buy all of the Miyazaki movies when they come out and GITS/Patlabor/Advent Children but I just don't have the time/money to spend on series that I won't watch for perhaps several years. I occasionally download a fansubbed series but I rarely finish them before the series is out on DVD (Read or Die).

Music: I have never been a music downloader even back in the napster days. I probably have more TF mp3s on my system then regular music and I own all the TF soundtracks. Plus Satelite radio through Expressvu is perfect for my needs and I used to stream it to work instead of listening to crappy local commerical filled radio stations.

Games: I own an xbox and an xbox 360, I used to have a lot of games for the xbox but now it is mainly used as a media player, which is what microsoft should have created it to do as it beats any DVD player out there. I have a few launch and recent 360 games, dead rising. But I rarely play it any more. Sure I'll probably buy Gears of War but everyone and their mother with a 360 will be buying it. My computer although beefy on storage space (4.25TB at last count) the video card is very old for modern games (AIW 7500). But I still play a lot of starcraft/Mechwarrior.

So bottom line if the industry got off it's butt and listened to what the consumers wanted and catered to us they would get a lot more money from all of us.

Piracy is something that the movie/software industry created by pissing off the customer with lousy service/products. Yes there are a-holes out there that try to make money off of piracy but that goes against the concept of warez/piracy, which was intended as a try-before-you-buy. Many people will steal just because it is there and free those are the people the 'industry' is trying to stop.

/rant

[Denyer]

Originally posted by Cliffjumper
Of course, like most people who fileshare, I also tend to download lots of stuff freely avaliable in the shops if I don't have the money.

I've found there's usually a period a while after release (with films and music) when things pass through eBay at low, low prices... again, one of the things media companies hate -- if it were possible, they'd happily prevent people from reselling physical media they own.

That's one of the main reasons I rarely buy pay-per-download (and when I do, it's only where I know I can convert the format into a more flexible form such as MP3 without losing any appreciable quality) -- it's playing into the hands of those who don't want consumers to have a product they can sell on.

Though I'd be all over an online library subscription system that allowed people to download time/use-locked comics, since a lot of stuff doesn't encourage me to ever give it a second read. It'd need to be priced to reflect the fact of not giving people copies they could retain, but I think could stimulate a lot of interest for trades, which is the way the industry is heading anyway. Paper singles will probably always have a place, but for many titles it's already not the focus.

[Vin Ghostal]

It hasn't affected my movie or TV consumption, as I get everything I need through Netflix and Blockbuster. That said, dowloading has driven the amount of money I spend on music every year pretty much down to zero. I used to consume dozens of CDs a year, either through buying them myself or through asking for them as gifts for birthday/Christmas/Arbor Day. Since I began downloading in 2000, I have only bought one CD for myself: Outkast's "Speakerboxxx/The Love Below". I just can't be bothered to spend money on something I can have for free when there are so many other things that are escalating in price (gas, rent, etc.).

[slartibartfast]

right okay, bear with me. i've been trying to write something here for days... for the life of me i can't get it down right

from an artistic point of view, i get more satisfaction from knowing that more people are reading / listening to my stuff than from any fat paycheck i might receive. i stand on the ground that it's free and "if you like what i do and want me to have more time to do it, then help me pay my rent", i don't recall many artists bitching about the extra media coverage they get, in fact i'm pretty sure the only ones that do are the ones that have already got too much money anyways.

i did have a whole section on culture being a right not a privilege, and another bit about industry labels being obsolete, but i forgot my soapbox in another thread... i did think of this half assed joke to finish up with though : not downloading pirates of the carribean would be an insult to pirates everywhere would it not ? either that or "have we done a ninjas vs record labels poll yet ?"

*shoots himself in the foot*

edited 'cos i seem to have this obsession with editing my posts the next day... i'm trying to kick the habit though.

[Alpha Trion]

Originally posted by Hound

If they start collecting Silver Age Aquaman I'll be first in line to buy it, until then I've got the scans to browse through.

http://www.amazon.com/Aquaman-Archives- ... F8&s=books


I'd never buy an expensive comic hardcover like that above without having sample the stuff inside. Were it not for illegal downloads, I'd never have learned that the Silver Age FF and Thor HCs are worth the money, but 60s X-Men must be avoided at all costs.

I used to download tons of music with no intent to buy when I was in high school, but nowadays I actually use Myspace to sample bands and later purchase stuff I like.

On occasion I'll download a movie or TV show I haven't seen; if I like what I see I have to get the DVD as I feel a geek need to see a pretty box on my shelf. Doctor Who is a good example; I download every episode the day they air in the UK, but I don't keep them.

[Sociopathic Autobot]

[inflatable dalek]

Originally posted by Cliffjumper
It's not any more legal (well, beyond anything that's public domain) than anything else - you're not even really meant to record stuff directly from the telly for archiving purposes.

You're not even stricktly allowed to watch video's/DVD's in places like a school classroom- So if any teacher at school ever put Through The Dragons Eye on in a lesson, or even Jurrasic Park as a treat on the last day of school, they were evil Pirate bastards.


For some reason the copyright notice on the start of most DVD's also specifically excludes watching them on oil rigs...