Going back to Transformers 2007 (after ROTF)

Cliffjumper · Post by **Cliffjumper** » Sat Sep 25, 2010 7:16 pm

Prime chases Megatron? No, he just heads off. There's plainly time (if not much) between them leaving the warehouse and getting to the forest during which Megatron gathers himself and gives chase (I'm not even sure how Optimus would know which direction Megatron drove off in). As for Bumblebee, it seems pretty obvious he heads off to meet the others - Lennox notes the Autobots split off into two groups, one being Prime & Bumblebee, the other being Ironhide, Ratchet, the Twins, Sideswipe and maybe Jolt. Group 1 splits up when Prime makes a break with Sam, then Group 2 arrives with Bumblebee having seemingly never got close to the warehouse - seems fairly straightforward to me.

horizon · Post by **horizon** » Sat Sep 25, 2010 7:30 pm

Your giving an explanation of your own mindset to justify madness.

It still does not explain how Megatron got behind Optimus since Optimus came out the building later. And since, according you, Optimus did not know where Megatron went to it is also a vica versa effect.

Your explanation makes Optimus just plain dumb. Driving off in another direction then where the other Autobots are.

So, no, your explanation fails on several issues.

Sorry, good try. Next one please.

Cliffjumper · Post by **Cliffjumper** » Sat Sep 25, 2010 8:19 pm

Yeh, the explanation fails on so many levels that you ignored one whole area of it.

Prime's just trying to get Sam away, that's all, fancy stuff can wait. Prime chases after Megatron is your own inaccurate reading as that's plainly not what happened. Megatron, however, is actively after Prime (well, Sam, who's with Prime). Prime tries to outrun him and doesn't make it (he has considerable form for letting heart rule head - Hell, minutes later he gets stabbed in the back because his concern for Sam overrides the common sense of checking Megatron's out of the fight, Peter St. John he ain't). Seriously, is all that really so difficult to follow? There's a time lapse between the warehouse escape and Megatron firing on Prime in the forest, something made blindingly obvious by the warehouse not being visible in the forest, and vice versa.

It's likely Bay didn't think the audience would be thick enough to require this being outright stated onscreen.

horizon · Post by **horizon** » Sun Sep 26, 2010 6:52 am

Why are ignoring me view?

Megatron leaves the factory EARLIER.
Optimus Prime LATER.

How does Megatron know where Optimus goes?

It is all quite easy to follow.

And still, in your case, Optimus would meet up with his friends instead of going alone down in the woods.
He would know he woulds stand a better chance if his friends could cover his "retreat" so to say.

Cliffjumper · Post by **Cliffjumper** » Sun Sep 26, 2010 11:54 am

horizon wrote:Why are ignoring me view?

You speaky the English good. Send the books for maximum happy!

Megatron leaves the factory EARLIER.
Optimus Prime LATER.

Transition of time, obvious due to changed geography. Are we going to need a diagram here?

How does Megatron know where Optimus goes?

Because he's a big ****ing truck with flames painted on him driving on what seems to be an otherwise deserted road.

And still, in your case, Optimus would meet up with his friends instead of going alone down in the woods.
He would know he woulds stand a better chance if his friends could cover his "retreat" so to say.

Do you think that maybe he was trying to, but a big ****ing Decepticon jumped him and shot at him? Amazing what a change that can make to your plans, that. It seems pretty obvious the two parties were planning to rendezvous (hence everyone else diverging on Prime despite the lack of any known communication) but Prime didn't make it in time.

Seriously, this happens in films - everything doesn't always go as the characters plan. That's why Bill Holden dies acheiving basically nothing at the end of Bridge on the River Kwai

Summerhayes · Post by **Summerhayes** » Sun Sep 26, 2010 3:38 pm

How do all my threads end up like this?

horizon · Post by **horizon** » Mon Sep 27, 2010 3:25 am

English bad my writing.

Seriously, could you do it in Dutch.

Kidding aside. I guess we won't agree.

DK Prime · Post by **DK Prime** » Sun Oct 03, 2010 7:26 pm

Well we don't all have to agree, but at least we can respect each others opinions.

Just my 5 cents.

Cheers and don't let the bedbugs bite ya:D

Dead Pool · Post by **Dead Pool** » Wed Sep 14, 2011 6:18 am

I can see where both Cliff and horizon are both coming from. You see temporal inconsistencies all the time in action flicks to add to the suspense, ("There's a bomb going off in 30 seconds!" /scene elapses for 10 minutes) and though not every minute detail of what each and every character is doing the moment they leave the warehouse needs to meticulously mapped out, I think a little bit of that particular scene just comes down to lazy editing/writing.

IIRC, it does really seem like Optimus and the other Autobots are side by side one minute, and then he's just left alone to fend for himself in the forest for fifteen minutes and that kind of irked me. A quick clip of their paths diverging or showing what impeded the other's progress couldn't have hurt. But then again, it doesn't ruin the movie, and the forest fight scene is very well done.

Cliffjumper · Post by **Cliffjumper** » Wed Sep 14, 2011 2:19 pm

But there was, wasn't there? Lennox or someone notes they're splitting into two teams when watching a monitor.

Dead Pool · Post by **Dead Pool** » Fri Sep 16, 2011 10:24 pm

Noooo, don't make me rewatch the film again just to confirm/deny this. I'm begging ya!

Cliffjumper · Post by **Cliffjumper** » Sat Sep 17, 2011 12:04 am

No need.

It's about 45 seconds in, wrapped the rest in for context... It actually happens a little earlier than I thought, which if anything makes it a miracle the remainder of the Autobots got there as soon as they did, further justifying Prime's decision to stand and fight Megatron rather than wait for something else. So, we have: -

Autobots detecting Decepticon signals (which has already been established as possible in Shanghai, though exactly how precise it is is unknown - the rough inference seems to be they only detect Sideways when he fires up his engine); the logical answer for who the contacts are is Grindor, presumably on station near the college (surely they would have detected Alice sooner, so maybe her Pretender tech cloaks her), and Megatron/Starscream at the warehouse. They alert NEST (but of course NEST are still in the air, ref. later shot of Lennox hearing about Prime's death over the radio; it's actually worth noting Lennox says it'll take 20 minutes for NEST to mobilise and they're en route by the time Prime dies, which is another solid indicator there are some lapses of time across the next few scenes).
To cover this development, the Autobots split into two teams as NEST chap says - Prime and Bumblebee head towards the warehouse, therefore Ironhide and company would logically be heading towards the college. Either they get there and find nothing, or they change direction when Alice is killed and/or Grindor heads towards the warehouse (the latter is most likely, they'd have to be moving - remember Grindor flies everywhere in straight lines, the Autobots need roads); it's possible even that they continue to track Grindor when he carries on past the warehouse after dropping Sam and the gang through the roof.
Bumblebee and Prime reach the warehouse before the other Autobots. They have no time to waste (and, TBH, they're Prime and Bumblebee). They bust in and rescue Sam, knocking Megatron and Starscream for six. The Cons scatter, Megatron driving off with no real sign of direction - Prime's just shot him, the ROTF version doesn't seem to be able to match Optimus.
Bumblebee gets Mikaela and Leo and drives off. No-one follows them because the Decepticons are after Sam. He does the sensible thing and heads off to meet the other Autobots.
Prime grabs Sam and makes a break for it. At some point Megatron regains his trail (remember, it's possible he still has access to his jet mode - it's also likely Starscream and Grindor are searching elsewhere before being summoned), catches Prime and attacks; the warehouse cannot be seen from the forest; the forest can just about be seen from the warehouse, maybe (there's some trees visible in the long shot of Grindor carrying the car; at that brevity it's difficult to be 100% certain, but they don't look like the dense Redwoods or whatever the fight takes place around; the warehouse is in a run-down industrial area, and there's actually a shot of Prime driving along a road in a lightly wooded area; cut away to Bumblebee with Leo and Mikaela; cut back and Prime's in the heavily wooded area being attacked by Megatron - obvious transition of time). Begin fight scene.
Talking of the fight scene, if I'm following the geography right, it moves pretty consistently in one direction, carrying on away from the warehouse, and covering a fair amount of distance. Sam runs basically in a straight line, and the battle follows him.
Throughout the fight scene, there are various cuts away (e.g. to the other Autobots en route) which indicate the possibility of passage of time - how can the whole forest fight be in real time when the IMAX version inserts another 15 seconds?
The remainder of the Autobots seem to come from the other end of the forest to the path Prime originally takes, which presumably is the direction their detour takes them - which means Prime and Sam are heading in the direction of their reinforcements the whole time.

Paying attention to the film, there's nothing like it for accuracy.

The whole thing hangs together logically, or at least there's nothing more incongrous than "Prime sometimes doesn't think things through too much when friends and/or innocents are at risk", which has basically been the guy's one serious weakness since 1984. It's easy to follow when you're watching it at 200mph (there's a line of exposition, Prime and Bumblebee turn up in one place, Sideswipe, Ironhide and co in another, etc, etc), it's easy to follow when you break it down into bullet points. If it wasn't Michael Bay/Revenge of the Fallen but was in a Nick Roche comic or a cherished G1 episode, people would have no problem with it and picking holes in it would be dismissed as joyless pedantry.

RotF has enough plot holes for people to pick on, there's no need to make up imaginary ones.

Post by **Blackjack** » Sat Sep 17, 2011 12:54 am

You're my hero, Cliffy.

RotF has enough plot holes for people to pick on, there's no need to make up imaginary ones.

There's the truth of it!

Dead Pool · Post by **Dead Pool** » Sat Sep 17, 2011 3:05 am

1. He uses bullet points, he must be right!

2. Your link doesn't work. Copyright infringement, yadda yadda.

3. Despite the fact that I can see your side of the argument, I don't have any unjustified bias for Michael Bay. But you're welcome to keep assuming that. Obviously what was written in the script is that Prime had to martyr himself at some point because that's what they wanted to happen in the film. Trouble is they had to fill in what happened in between rescuing Sam and Prime actually dying. And that's where they **** up a bit. And and yeah that's been Prime's thing "... since 1984," as you said, but even assuming this was all Prime's original plan to split into two teams, it makes the Autobots, specifically Bumblebee, who arrived late coming off as a bunch of dumbasses.

4.

Cliffjumper wrote: [*]Bumblebee gets Mikaela and Leo and drives off. No-one follows them because the Decepticons are after Sam. He does the sensible thing and heads off to meet the other Autobots.

Not really the "sensible thing," at all. Since the main priority is protecting Sam, once Bumblebee realizes that nobody is tailing him, why would he continue off in the direction of the others on some circuitous path? I can see it being sensible if a Decepticon had decided to tail him as that would have diverted attention from Prime, but what exactly is he accomplishing by ditching his established "team member," and more importantly, leader to fend for himself? To get rid of Mikaela and Leo? They're gone from his car by the time he picks up Sam after Prime is already dead, and again, nobody is following him anyways; he could have driven down the road, dumped them off at a gas station, whorehouse, police station, anywhere that's not the warehouse, and headed back to help Prime.

Or maybe he handed them off to one of the other Autobots? So he drove all the way to the other Autobots and then returned to the Prime fight in roundabout fashion just so he could hand off two inconsequential humans? Sounds to me like he could have just went with Prime and assured the safety of both he and Sam and then made the hand off... but wait, he drives all the way to the other Autobots, and then still makes it back to the fight at the same time as them? And you see not one problem with that? Either he has some hidden teleportation device, or Prime's fight in the forest (which I had already considered not in "real time) took an hour so that Bumblebee had the appropriate time to meet up with them and then return.

Or since Prime was jumped and his fight took place to delay them enough for reinforcements to arrive, shouldn't they have shown the Autobots sitting there waiting at the rendezvous point, wondering "Where's Prime?"

[*]Talking of the fight scene, if I'm following the geography right, it moves pretty consistently in one direction, carrying on away from the warehouse, and covering a fair amount of distance. Sam runs basically in a straight line, and the battle follows him.

Great. So the Autobots look even more inept for arriving so late, because it's not as if they had to go rambling through the woods to find Prime and Sam.

[*]Throughout the fight scene, there are various cuts away (e.g. to the other Autobots en route) which indicate the possibility of passage of time - how can the whole forest fight be in real time when the IMAX version inserts another 15 seconds?

Various cut aways? I counted one in this clip besides their initial divergence from the warehouse: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pzf4ECj9Du8

And ironically, another Autobot is already with him, which seems to suggest that they weren't all that far off to begin with. They sure dropped the ball, didn't they?

Cliffjumper wrote: Paying attention to the film, there's nothing like it for accuracy.

Or using conjecture to fill in the blanks, either one.

The whole thing hangs together logically, or at least there's nothing more incongrous than "Prime sometimes doesn't think things through too much when friends and/or innocents are at risk", which has basically been the guy's one serious weakness since 1984. It's easy to follow when you're watching it at 200mph (there's a line of exposition, Prime and Bumblebee turn up in one place, Sideswipe, Ironhide and co in another, etc, etc), it's easy to follow when you break it down into bullet points. If it wasn't Michael Bay/Revenge of the Fallen but was in a Nick Roche comic or a cherished G1 episode, people would have no problem with it and picking holes in it would be dismissed as joyless pedantry.

RotF has enough plot holes for people to pick on, there's no need to make up imaginary ones.

Nobody said it was difficult to follow, nor did I say it was a plot hole. Dumb, lazy writing? You betcha. Showing the other Autobots impeded in some fashion or the aforementioned waiting at the rendezvous point would have added to the scene, I don't see how it wouldn't have, considering Bumblebee is already with their company upon their arrival.

But hey, it's just a movie, right?

Cliffjumper · Post by **Cliffjumper** » Sat Sep 17, 2011 3:57 am

Dead Pool wrote:Your link doesn't work. Copyright infringement, yadda yadda.

Hmm, works fine for me - weird

Browser caches work on Youtube? Feel free to check the DVD - should be circa the 49 minute mark, IIRC just after the highway group shot that sprang Jolt T. Volt on an unsuspecting public

Despite the fact that I can see your side of the argument, I don't have any unjustified bias for Michael Bay. But you're welcome to keep assuming that.

More a general point that anything aimed at you personally - it's a general trend in some areas of fandom to criticise things in the films that are prevalent in other areas (which is mad; if people hate the films more power to them, it just bugs me when they say "this and this fault").

It makes the Autobots, specifically Bumblebee, who arrived late coming off as a bunch of dumbasses.

I could point to every incarnation of Transformers ever right here (most continuities have at least one storyline that has the Autobots under the cosh until Prime or the Prime analogue comes and almost single-handedly turns the tide - TF:TM, Divide and Conquer, End of the Road, Speed Metal [was it Speed Metal? One episode of Prime, anyway... Man, I need to sit down and properly digest Prime]). [EDIT:

, this bit is not meant entirely seriously!]

I'd argue against that they're being dumbasses, though - the Autobots are put behind the eight ball by NEST/the US making an arse out of keeping the Allspark fragment safe and the return of Megatron. Ironhide's team just don't have geography on their side - many historical battles have reinforcements that for one reason or another don't arrive until too late, they're not necessarily dumbasses. They don't know why the Decepticons are after Sam, or even that they're particularly after Sam as he doesn't tell any of the Autobots about the Allspark/Matrix visions until after Prime's dead (now, why he doesn't, that's a plot hole - sure, he wants to do his own thing at college, but the visions are preventing him as much as meetings with Prime are, and the Autobots would likely be able to help).

Not really the "sensible thing," at all. Since the main priority is protecting Sam, once Bumblebee realizes that nobody is tailing him, why would he continue off in the direction of the others on some circuitous path? [snipped to avoid overly long quoting rather than out of... er... snippiness]

The Autobots aren't sure exactly why the Decepticons are after Sam (remember, Sam has to explain to Bumblebee and the Twins in that run down place they're hiding out) - for all Bumblebee knows, they're after Leo and/or Mikaela as well. Megatron, Starscream and Grindor are all at large - would Bumblebee stand much of a chance against them (okay, he would against Grindor, who doesn't really appear to understand what's going on most of the time... I still think he's a zombie Blackout to be honest... "Hey, Hasbro, is that helicopter guy a resurrected Blackout or Grindor? What's that, you say? He's Grindor, who just happens to have a toy out who's likely to sell more if he's in the film? Excellent, thanks for your unbiased agendaless answer!")?

Besides, Bumblebee does seem to drop them off somewhere, presumably once he's sure it's safe to do so, i.e. once he realises he's not being followed.

Seeing as the other Autobots presumably know where Prime is and are heading towards him, it seems logical to me that they'd meet Bumblebee on the way - NEST have tracking and communications on all 'their' Autobots (clearly shown in the 'two teams' scene where they have markers on screen; IIRC you see the same tech on a monitor in DotM during the highway scene, though it's a bit difficult to make out on the cam version and I'm not sure if my memory's cheating), co-ordinating that would be child's play

Or since Prime was jumped and his fight took place to delay them enough for reinforcements to arrive, shouldn't they have shown the Autobots sitting there waiting at the rendezvous point, wondering "Where's Prime?"

Why would there be a rendezvous point? They have communications and tracking, by this stage at least they're not relying on physically seeing each other (which they do seem to need in the first film - "It's Optimus!" - so presumably this is something introduced in conjunction with NEST) .

Great. So the Autobots look even more inept for arriving so late, because it's not as if they had to go rambling through the woods to find Prime and Sam.

No, they get detoured and seem to end up having to loop around the woods from another angle - the split into two teams happens some time before, and Grindor seems to fly some distance (across a bay) with the hotwired car hanging from him). It's the sort of thing that'd be pretty easy to explain in real life with a map, but as all films tend to muck with that sort of thing (e.g. it wouldn't surprise me if in real life the warehouse and forest locations were hundreds of miles apart) it's pretty difficult to know where to start.

Various cut aways? I counted one in this clip besides their initial divergence from the warehouse: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pzf4ECj9Du8

Fair note, thought there was another shot (with Ironhide and Sideswipe?) in there.

And ironically, another Autobot is already with him, which seems to suggest that they weren't all that far off to begin with. They sure dropped the ball, didn't they?

Erm, how did they drop the ball? Bumblebee heads off in a different direction, obviously meeting up with the other Autobots on the way (if he's heading in their rough direction at, say, 60 mph and they're heading in his direction at 60mph, it's not going to take long to meet in the middle). The Autobots are, what, 45 seconds too late to at least reach the battle before Prime's death.

Or using conjecture to fill in the blanks, either one.

Seems more like common sense to me. It's pretty much all there, I'm not sure there are many areas I'm reaching particularly far.

Showing the other Autobots impeded in some fashion or the aforementioned waiting at the rendezvous point would have added to the scene, I don't see how it wouldn't have, considering Bumblebee is already with their company upon their arrival.

You don't think they wouldn't have looked dumb sitting parked somewhere when they've just been shown to have high-tech real-time communications and tracking equipment at their disposal while their leader's under attack from three heavily armed Decepticons?

Rendezvous != rendezvous point

EDIT II: And a general apology if the bullet-pointed post felt like it was an attack on you, Deadpool - some of that was bottled up a little from discussion further up the thread and other parts weren't aimed at anyone in particular, more tangiential "thinking atype".

EDIT III: Hmmm, YouTube video "blocked in some countries"; weird, wonder how they picked up on that instantly and yet there're other ROTF videos floating around... On the off-chance anyone wants to check it out, it's at https://rapidshare.com/files/467123395/TwoTeams.avi (about 15mb)

Summerhayes · Post by **Summerhayes** » Mon Sep 19, 2011 8:54 am

I recently had to make a very similar argument when a friend, whose the sort of person who spouts opinions from newspapers and pretends to like football when everyone else does, said "I liked it at the cinema but I watched it again and it made no sense." I eventually made him realise he was talking bollocks, but some nice bullet-pointed arguments would have really helped . . .

Someone should do a whole website like that, like a "What Obama's Done" for Michael Bay.

Dead Pool · Post by **Dead Pool** » Tue Sep 20, 2011 5:24 am

Cliffjumper wrote:
More a general point that anything aimed at you personally - it's a general trend in some areas of fandom to criticise things in the films that are prevalent in other areas (which is mad; if people hate the films more power to them, it just bugs me when they say "this and this fault").

Fair enough. I wouldn't go so far as to say that there was a glaring fault in the way the scene transpired, as the forest fight is one of the best scenes overall... but as is evident in the fact that I'm still here nicely chewing the fat over it, there was something (mostly the aforementioned in my previous post) just out of kilter enough about it to make me voice that slight vexation.

I could point to every incarnation of Transformers ever right here (most continuities have at least one storyline that has the Autobots under the cosh until Prime or the Prime analogue comes and almost single-handedly turns the tide - TF:TM, Divide and Conquer, End of the Road, Speed Metal [was it Speed Metal? One episode of Prime, anyway... Man, I need to sit down and properly digest Prime]). [EDIT: , this bit is not meant entirely seriously!]

Of course. Probably why Prime was my favorite as a kid. Akin to Michael Jordan and suddenly reminds me of a quote from some Bulls player back when they were untouchable. "Whenever we're down going into the final quarter of the game we just look at him and say 'Save us Michael.' And then he does."

I'd argue against that they're being dumbasses, though - the Autobots are put behind the eight ball by NEST/the US making an arse out of keeping the Allspark fragment safe and the return of Megatron. Ironhide's team just don't have geography on their side - many historical battles have reinforcements that for one reason or another don't arrive until too late, they're not necessarily dumbasses. They don't know why the Decepticons are after Sam, or even that they're particularly after Sam as he doesn't tell any of the Autobots about the Allspark/Matrix visions until after Prime's dead (now, why he doesn't, that's a plot hole - sure, he wants to do his own thing at college, but the visions are preventing him as much as meetings with Prime are, and the Autobots would likely be able to help).

"Dumbasses" may have been too harsh a criticism. You want to go with the war analogy? Then let's. This is no Battle of Stalingrad or even Shiloh. There's no disconcerting topography or advantageous positioning of reinforcements that needs to be taken into consideration. If a military unit arrives late in drill or anything that for matter... you can bet their ass is getting chewed out by a superior. You say geography is not on their side? Then this definitely should have been acknowledged somehow in the film. You make note of the technologically advanced NEST with markers on all their Autobots making mobilization of "coordination.... child's play" so that should apply to the reinforcements arriving there late as well. If there is no impediment and they were just "lost" for whatever reason, then yes, it comes off as a sort of blunder on their (the reinforcing Autobot's part). You'd think navigating the labyrinthine geography of Cybertron would have made this particular scene a breeze for them in comparison.

The Autobots aren't sure exactly why the Decepticons are after Sam (remember, Sam has to explain to Bumblebee and the Twins in that run down place they're hiding out) - for all Bumblebee knows, they're after Leo and/or Mikaela as well. Megatron, Starscream and Grindor are all at large - would Bumblebee stand much of a chance against them (okay, he would against Grindor, who doesn't really appear to understand what's going on most of the time

Now this would have been interesting to see and I wish they had included it. What does it matter if you or I think Bumblebee would have stood a chance or not? His character is much different from that of his animated counterparts. It wouldn't have been too far off from his character perhaps; he certainly displays enough instances of courage and loyalty throughout the three films. This would have been a paridigmatic instance. We see him trash pretty much every other Decepticon he fights. Against Starscream or Megatron while trying to help out Prime? That would have been pretty interesting to see. But of course, they had to make up for Prime being such a wuss against Megatron in the first film and have him do the "all against one" martyring in the forest scene.

Seeing as the other Autobots presumably know where Prime is and are heading towards him, it seems logical to me that they'd meet Bumblebee on the way - NEST have tracking and communications on all 'their' Autobots (clearly shown in the 'two teams' scene where they have markers on screen; IIRC you see the same tech on a monitor in DotM during the highway scene, though it's a bit difficult to make out on the cam version and I'm not sure if my memory's cheating), co-ordinating that would be child's play

Of course it is logical that Bumblebee meets up with the other Autobots since he headed off in a different direction from Prime regarding the warehouse. That wasn't what I was citing as the illogicality of the matter. The illogicality was why heading towards them was more pertinent, especially after "dropping off" Mikaela and Leo.

Why would there be a rendezvous point? They have communications and tracking, by this stage at least they're not relying on physically seeing each other (which they do seem to need in the first film - "It's Optimus!" - so presumably this is something introduced in conjunction with NEST)

Again, we're kind of just assuming here. If they have such great communication, then it wasn't employed. Having the Autobots trying to contact Prime and getting static due to his fight or even asking Bumblebee what the hell is going on would have been better than a clip of them driving for what seems like forever despite the fact that Bumlebee is in their number seemingly minutes later.

No, they get detoured and seem to end up having to loop around the woods from another angle

Then more of this needs to be addressed in the film. We can't just go with "Well, they got detoured for some reason or another," and they "seem to have to loop around for reasons unknown." A great film needs show, not tell. Of course, they want Prime's sacrifice to seem that much more Rambo-esque because, hell, that's Prime. He's a noble guy. We both can agree on that. But why would it have been a detriment to show another few Decepticons impeding the other Autobots along the way? Or even a clip of Megatron ordering them to impede the other Autobots so they could "crush Prime and the boy?"

- the split into two teams happens some time before, and Grindor seems to fly some distance (across a bay) with the hotwired car hanging from him). It's the sort of thing that'd be pretty easy to explain in real life with a map, but as all films tend to muck with that sort of thing (e.g. it wouldn't surprise me if in real life the warehouse and forest locations were hundreds of miles apart) it's pretty difficult to know where to start.

Perhaps. You were so good with those bullet points. Why not make up a map for us? Haha, just kidding. You're a good bear.

Erm, how did they drop the ball? Bumblebee heads off in a different direction, obviously meeting up with the other Autobots on the way (if he's heading in their rough direction at, say, 60 mph and they're heading in his direction at 60mph, it's not going to take long to meet in the middle). The Autobots are, what, 45 seconds too late to at least reach the battle before Prime's death.

Because Prime has to fight off three Decepticons at once and they are nowhere to be found despite the fact that they're not impeded. If they are already going in his direction and Bumblebee meets up with them so quickly... we have to assume they were at least given evidence of the whereabouts of Prime and Bumblebee before the warehouse rescue or even already on their way there, otherwise they wouldn't have been able to meet up with Bumblebee so quickly in the first place. And the significance of Bumblebee even heading off in a different direction is tarnished because he is in their midst so quickly anyways, does nothing of any substantial importance to justify going their way, and in their number when they arrive late to save Prime anyways.

You don't think they wouldn't have looked dumb sitting parked somewhere when they've just been shown to have high-tech real-time communications and tracking equipment at their disposal while their leader's under attack from three heavily armed Decepticons?
rendezvous != rendezvous point

Of course it would have looked stupid. But then at least we don't have to assume they're just idiots for driving around in circuitous fashion and not getting there in time anyways either.

And yes, rendezvous doesn't equal rendezvous point. But when you made note of Sam heading away in one direction from the warehouse, this further supports my stance on the fact that the Autobots didn't have to go rambling all over the densely packed woods to find the others in the first place.

EDIT II: And a general apology if the bullet-pointed post felt like it was an attack on you, Deadpool - some of that was bottled up a little from discussion further up the thread and other parts weren't aimed at anyone in particular, more tangiential "thinking atype".

Fair enough, none taken, friendo.