The heroic Chandlers! A.k.a. two idiots in a boat.

[Wildrider]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-11754758

For those unaware, for the best part of a year this couple have been in the company of Somalian pirates for the best part of a year. Despite knowing full well they were sailing into waters deemed to be 'at risk', off they went and suprise, suprise, pirated they will.

Now, an ordeal this may well have been, but I can't help feel a little agrieved that the provisional facts indicate that a large portion of the ransom paid was by the poor and honest people of Somalia, this is shameful. I don't advocate governments getting involved and perpetuating further hijackings by paying inordinate sums of money for buffoons.

But my point is this, I can't stand the two of them waving as if they're bloody royalty, I haven't heard one public word of thanks to the people of Somalia. Sure the pirates were Somalian, but by all accounts there appears have been an ongoing campaign both by native Somalians and ex-pat Somalians in the UK to raise this amount.

So one of the most impoverished, volatile and war torn nations in the world bails out two inept 'sailors' from England, show some flaming humility and don't grin like idiots.

Don't get me started on those bloody McAnns either! If I'd have left my child unattended while I went for a pint, I perhaps wouldn't be so 'holier than thou' with blameless UK politicians. Don't get me wrong, to lose a child is the worst thing I can imagine and if it was me I'd never stop looking either , but the constant finger pointing at everyone else is getting tiring. If they weren't both doctors I wonder if they'd be treated with less reverence by the media?

I'm being a twat aren't I?

*Takes some medication*

[Cliffjumper]

Mmm, the McCanns piss me off no end. Echo that it's not something I'd want anyone to have to deal with, but leaving a young child in an unlocked Portugese apartment while they went off to a swinging party is surely bordering on negligence. If a Portuguese couple did that at a British hotel, and then suggested that the British police were incompetent, can you imagine the fit the tabs would have?

For some reason the Chandlers really remind me of that stupid cow who kept doing solo round-the-world yacht trips and the like and was always doing docus on the Beeb consisting of her moaning into a camera about how hard and stressful it was - because people were forcing her to sail around the world solo in a yacht at gunpoint, obviously. Helen something or other.

TBH, it's stuff like this that means I rarely read non-Mashified news anymore. Don't even get me started on those ****ing student protesters either. I can't work out if the country's getting stupider or I'm getting angrier. ****ing James Blunt stopping World War III, what a twat. This country needs another ****ing world war, I tell you. We'd round up all the students with their twatty ironic placards and parachute them into China, that would ****ing learn them; send anyone on the dole into Zimbabwe, lock them there with Mugabe and let it all sort itself out. Replace Clegg and Cameron with my ****ing cat or a post box or something. Clean the ****ing scum out of the country.

Funny how you get more right wing as you get older.

[inflatable dalek]

To a certain extent I'd say the problem isn't really the people involved directly (though both the McCanns and the Chandlers did stupid things), it's way the bloody media milk these stories for all their worth. On the one hand you've got two people who are probably fairly out of it and not completely aware of what's been going on around their release, and on the other you've got people doing what most parents would be doing in that situation and grabbing whatever they can to keep focus on getting their kid back (and to go with what Cliffy said about it happening to foreigners here, the Brit press wouldn't have been so forgiving and rightous if it had happened to the wrong sort of UK family. A woman with 8 kids on benefits loses one on holiday? Broken Britain).

The 24 hour rolling news channels (which I think we can safely say the world doesn't actually need except in exceptional emergencies) desperate to fill for time, the Express treating that kid as the new Diana, tabloids trying to fight the death of the newspaper with more and more attention grabbing sensationalism. Our entire news media, left and right wing, BBC and Murdoch, is pretty much unmitigated crap.

One thing in particular I hate is the need for TV news to have people "live" on the scene. Even if it's 8 O'clock in the morning and nothings happening. If you want someone to give an opinion piece on the story have them do it in the studio rather than trying to create fake tension and excitement. Rather than just annoying people by having five TV crews parked on their lawn.

I was actually pleased with the students rioting, partly because making higher education even more the domain of just the well off (who aren't automatically the people who'd benefit most from it anyway) is exactly what this country doesn't need if it has any sort of future, but simply because it was nice to finally see some people getting angry.

Over the last few years we've all been shafted seven different ways to buggery. If I'm lucky enough to stay in employment I'll be working till I drop dead (and what are people in physically demanding jobs that folks in their 70's aren't likely to be much cop at supposed to do?).

Half of my friends and family have lost their jobs and in the infrastructure that's there to help them get back into work is being torn apart (and my Mother works for DWP and every single change being forced through is either going to make things worse, is already done despite what's being said or is completely pointless. For example, no one ever, ever gets caught three times doing benefit fraud so the Three Strikes thing is just smoke and mirrors. People who think civil servants are as useless as the Mail tells them are in for a shock, that recent tax problem was down to under staffing, expect a lot more things like that).

And how do we, the Great British public take it? With complete apathy. We get more upset over a rich not very bright footballer turning out to like money and whores. We shrug our shoulders at how the banks are now pretty much back to doing exactly what got us in this mess in the first place and just quietly bitch about how the immigrants and single mothers are the root of societies problems when all the important decisions that have gone wrong are down to rich white British guys.

So seeing some people finally snap and get pissy, even if it's not up to French levels, was fantastic. Unlikely to achieve anything as it should be more than clear by now those in charge don't actually give a toss what the people think but at least it shows there's still some fire in at least a few people's bellies.

More cheerfully, am I the only person who like James Blunt despite hating his music? Certainly I think he has more of a future on panel shows than singing...

EDIT: And am I the only person who thought this thread was going to be about the Friends' guy?

[Sixswitch]

More cheerfully, am I the only person who like James Blunt despite hating his music? Certainly I think he has more of a future on panel shows than singing...

No you are not. I think he's a bit of a legend really. OK, his music isn't to my taste, but he seems like a properly decent bloke and pretty funny too. I also appreciated him on Buzzcocks and Have I Got News For You recently.

As far as I can tell, the only other reason people might not like him is because he's a bit 'posh', and I don't need to spell out how rubbish that is.

-Ss

[Cliffjumper]

So seeing some people finally snap and get pissy, even if it's not up to French levels, was fantastic. Unlikely to achieve anything as it should be more than clear by now those in charge don't actually give a toss what the people think but at least it shows there's still some fire in at least a few people's bellies.

Thing is, I'm not entirely sure that many did snap. I think there was a large amount of me too-ism to the whole thing with far too many taking part because others were. The ironic signs indicate people who don't really know what they're doing and are just going along with things as a fashion statement, and most of the anger was generated by the anarchist groups who hijacked proceedings.

While I agree making tertiary education the preserve of the even richer isn't ideal, the fact of the matter is that it's been the preserve of the fairly rich for a long time anyway, so it's difficult to credit a bunch of middle class people objecting to having a little bit less beer money per year.

[inflatable dalek]

Thing is, I'm not entirely sure that many did snap. I think there was a large amount of me too-ism to the whole thing with far too many taking part because others were. The ironic signs indicate people who don't really know what they're doing and are just going along with things as a fashion statement, and most of the anger was generated by the anarchist groups who hijacked proceedings.

I get the feeling the extent to which rogue groups hijacked things has been exagerated by both sides. The right/Tories so they can make it look like a small number of cranks and the left/NUS so they can avoid any sort of legal fallback. Tellingly when she was on BBC breakfast the head of the NUS could barely contain her glee despite officially condemning the violence.

Whilst there might be some youthful naivety in how they approached it with some of the signs and so on I do think most were genuine in their intent and genuinely pissed. True, today's angry students are almost inevitably tomorrow's fat cat bankers but for now I think their hearts were in the right place.

While I agree making tertiary education the preserve of the even richer isn't ideal, the fact of the matter is that it's been the preserve of the fairly rich for a long time anyway, so it's difficult to credit a bunch of middle class people objecting to having a little bit less beer money per year.

I'm not exactly sure what class I count as now (we've been up and down more than Jordan's knickers) but certainly under the old system me and my relatives of roughly the same age could do University, despite it still being something of a risk. Some of us did, some of us didn't and some of us succeeded and some of us didn't (like me), but at least the opportunity was their. My youngest cousin may turn out to be a super genius but that chance will never be there for her unless something amazingly lucky money-wise happens. Same goes for any kids I may or may not have one day (unless I turn into the male Anna-Nicole Smith and snatch myself a filthy rich old biddy).

And with the current, likely to endure for a while, crap job climate what chance have any of them got? Follow my footsteps into a crap menial put upon job at Tesco? Whilst I firmly believe there's nothing shameful in working for a living equally those who have the aptitude to do more should get that chance. Especially as it's better for the economy in the long term, better qualified people getting better jobs means more money coming in for the tax man, it means more skilled British people working towards dragging us out of the hole we're in rather than buggering off to countries that have a future.

Whilst I do agree that students (and the striking BBC journalists) aren't the worst off from the cutbacks, I think the real question isn't "Why are they overreacting?" but "Why is everyone else under reacting?".

I must admit to be heading in the opposite direction to yourself as I get older, more and more cynical far left wing borderline anarchist. I can't see any future for this country under the political options we currently have. Cameron's a twerp, but to a certain extent he's only doing what whoever won the election would have done, the damage was done long before him, before Brown and Blair and Major at least back to Thatcher. We're paying the dividends on thirty years of crap government.

And who's going to change things? The Lib Dems have sold their souls, Labour have basically gone into hibernation and elected a leader whose job is to lose the next election so as not to ruin the career of anyone they might actually want to be Prime Minister (though it'd be hilarious if he did a John Major and actually did win it). Burn down the whole thing and start over. They'll probably be just as many mistakes but at least they'll be new ones rather than the same old crap on a loop.

Still, at least we've got a needlessly (and borderline offensively considering the cuttbacks having to be made everywhere else) expensive Royal wedding to look forward to now that'll distract the news from anything important going on. I suppose William had to get on in there before he fully turned into his Dad...

[Summerhayes]

I was thinking and hoping it would be about the Friends character (I was nicknamed Chandler Bing behind my back by my girlfrend and her friends).

But i'm gonna have to go ahead and throw some optimism into this one. Sure the economy is wiggling it's way round the U-bend but it goes up and down. I think it could be worse.

The Chinese are slowly losing their ability to maintain Communism and it's not like anyone's crazy enough to try and conquer the world in the age of the atom.

Sure the news is full of crap and the newspapers are dying but through the Internet we can get the truth (if we're careful) and articles about whatever we're interested in anywhere, any time.

And Uni fees... Well, we could get into whether all subjects are really equal. Would it be fair for someone studying engineering to pay less than someone studying scriptwriting?

[Wildrider]

Well the students, the cynic in me believes that the only reason so many people turned out is because it's a cause that directly affects them.

"Hey I might have to pay more money? To hell with apathy, I'm going to Tory H.Q.! **** Thatcher!"

Although I suppose by the time it comes into play, majority of them will be out of university or prison, so perhaps it's a demonstration based on good will.

The media is undoubtedly going to have to shoulder some fo the responsibility of the furore over the violence demo as few ****wits and some porcine eighteen year old student with a fire extinguisher detract from the other 44,000 who demonstrated peacefully, albeit impotently. Like the government will ever back down after that debacle.

In defence of the media it can be entertaining, I caught this a while back and found my self grinning like a Cheshire cat at the squirming of the student type whose pre-scripted moral outrage at tuition fees dissolves in the face of having a conversation with an adult. (Ok, condescending, but amusing.)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Oc7IoeJFS60

[Cliffjumper]

The full picture of the student kicking in the window is my personal favourite...



Sort of sums the whole thing up. The ring of photographers, the give-a-shit policeman, the stupid cow with the sign with a naughty word on

I think the main reason students are protesting where others aren't is because they a) have a staggering amount of free time on their hands b) are more likely to follow en masse when someone says "Hey, how cool is this?" and c) are naturally disposed to feel hard done by due to their general lack of experience of the real world.

I mean, I'm guessing there's some reason tuiton fees have gone up, a reason other than "Because **** you, that's why". I know my bills are going up in line with my wages, which isn't the end of the world. For students the rise will probably not mean an awful lot - a little bit more for mummy and daddy to spring for, a little bit more to add to the debt they're never actually going to pay off because the Guardian only need a certain number of TV columnists at any one time, a few less bottles of Magners and Mighty Boosh DVDs. Jesus, some of them might have to get part-time jobs, badly cutting in to the "sitting around mocking Cash in the Attic" timetable.

[inflatable dalek]

I was thinking and hoping it would be about the Friends character (I was nicknamed Chandler Bing behind my back by my girlfrend and her friends).

To get your own back start asking your girlfriend when Courtney Cox is going to turn up [Danger: May earn you a slap].

And Uni fees... Well, we could get into whether all subjects are really equal. Would it be fair for someone studying engineering to pay less than someone studying scriptwriting?

A good point actually, I do think some sort of encouragement to get people into the idustries and professions we're lacking in would be an excellent idea (assuming there's not such a thing already).

Well the students, the cynic in me believes that the only reason so many people turned out is because it's a cause that directly affects them.

"Hey I might have to pay more money? To hell with apathy, I'm going to Tory H.Q.! **** Thatcher!"[/quote]

Don't forget though, the students protesting would already be signed up under the old price system and be safe, they were protesting for next years students more than anything else.

And I don't see a problem with standing up for yourself before anyone else, after all, if you don't no other bugger will.

T
I think the main reason students are protesting where others aren't is because they a) have a staggering amount of free time on their hands b) are more likely to follow en masse when someone says "Hey, how cool is this?" and c) are naturally disposed to feel hard done by due to their general lack of experience of the real world.

The unemployed, who are among the worst hit by the cuts, are both numerous and have a lot more hypothetical free time than students do. Being generally inexperienced dosen't mean they don't have a good point either.

I mean, I'm guessing there's some reason tuiton fees have gone up, a reason other than "Because **** you, that's why". I know my bills are going up in line with my wages, which isn't the end of the world. For students the rise will probably not mean an awful lot - a little bit more for mummy and daddy to spring for, a little bit more to add to the debt they're never actually going to pay off because the Guardian only need a certain number of TV columnists at any one time, a few less bottles of Magners and Mighty Boosh DVDs. Jesus, some of them might have to get part-time jobs, badly cutting in to the "sitting around mocking Cash in the Attic" timetable.

It's going from around 3000 quid (depending on type and length of course) to over 9000 (ditto). That's a three times increase in a year, way above inflation, and more than just a little increase for a lot of families. If there was a good reason for it I've yet to hear it.

I know that, as with any walk of life, there are useless students. Ones who spend all their time in the pub and screw it up badly. But the majority do get the social/work life balance absolutely right. To be honest though with the overall reaction being the same as yours it's hard to blame the ones involved giving up on any principals and just becoming as apathetic as everyone else.

[Cliffjumper]

The unemployed have no real reason to protest, they have it as easy as the students. Difference is, they're smart enough to realise it.

£6000 per year is about 20 hours per week at a part-time job (I work ~48 hours per week excluding overtime, and still have plenty of time for other stuff), which really isn't a lot, and might actually teach some of them a bit about the real world. Don't get me wrong, I realise there are some people who take tertiary education seriously, and some who use it as a big long expensive sudsidised night on the piss. The greater fees will provide more funds for universities, maybe meaning they're able to attract more of the former instead of having to stack courses with the latter to find the funds.

[the_escaflowne_2k]

Do parents have to pay much nowadays for University? My parents didn't pay a thing in my last of year of uni when the fees went up (as the increase meant they fell below the wage threshold for paying any), it just meant my education authority loan went up and to be honest those official loan repayments are barely noticeable coming out of my pay, effectively ending up like that Graduate Tax that used to be spoken of.

[electro girl]

It's going from around 3000 quid (depending on type and length of course) to over 9000 (ditto). That's a three times increase in a year, way above inflation, and more than just a little increase for a lot of families. If there was a good reason for it I've yet to hear it.

This makes me feel really bad for my younger brother because he'll have to deal with these high fees and it'll put even more strain on my Mum who is currently supporting my Dad and I while we go through uni. As a family we've cut back on a lot of luxuries and not for shits and giggles, my Dad's doing it because he's had his share of bad jobs for almost 30 years and he won't see me and my brother do the same. We just want to improve our lives but now feel like we've got a kick in the teeth for doing so.

[Cliffjumper]

It's worth remembering that £9000 is just the revised capped maximum payable. I suspect relatively few will pay above half of that, at least relatively few who can't afford it due to family income and the like.

[inflatable dalek]

The unemployed have no real reason to protest, they have it as easy as the students. Difference is, they're smart enough to realise it.

Only in the world of the Daily Mail. The amount of people who sit around on their arses laughing at the tax payer is incredibly small. If my mother (who incidentally, is only being "Moved" to behind a counter at Job Centre Plus rather than sacked because the government is actually trying to change the law so the minimum amount of redundancy they have to pay staff is drastically cut before they really go to town on getting rid of people) were here she'd be able to give you the full three hour lecture with flipchart on the whole situation. Safe to say, the various quick fixes and empty nonsense being sprouted by the government on the subject are just going to make things worse for the people who need it most, not get anyone off unemployment and have very little impact on those who are scamming.

The actual amount of JSA is about 120 a fortnight (NA contributions dependant), no ones getting rich on that. The various other benefits and funds available to people are actually incredibly difficult to get hold off and can be withheld on all sorts of technicalities, my Sister in Law doesn't get several things she'd otherwise be entitled to simply because my Brother's in employment. The numbers able to play the system is a very small percentage.

£6000 per year is about 20 hours per week at a part-time job (I work ~48 hours per week excluding overtime, and still have plenty of time for other stuff), which really isn't a lot, and might actually teach some of them a bit about the real world.

That's flawed for two reasons. First, the more complicated and lengthy courses are already equivalent to full time jobs in terms of the number of hours you're supposed to be putting in, I doubt many of those students would be able to put much more than than half that number of hours into a job.

Second, lets say you are a student working 20 hours. You've still (once you're out of halls) got to pay for food, TV licence, council tax, you're share of all the bills and so on. Very little of that 300ish take home a month would be going towards your tuition fees.

Don't get me wrong, I realise there are some people who take tertiary education seriously, and some who use it as a big long expensive sudsidised night on the piss. The greater fees will provide more funds for universities, maybe meaning they're able to attract more of the former instead of having to stack courses with the latter to find the funds.

All they'll attract is the more well off, I doubt the Uni's will care especially if those who can afford it want to take it seriously or piss it up the wall as long as they get the cash.

EDIT: More on topic, I see Max Clifford is already salivating at how much money he can make from selling the Chandler's story. I do hope they tell him to **** off.