Doctor Who: Time Crash, Voyage of the Damned and Season 4 Discussion

Cliffjumper · Post by **Cliffjumper** » Fri Jul 11, 2008 9:31 am

Oh, that's marvellous...

Looks like she's going to cry. Stupid, ugly bitch.

Halfshell · Post by **Halfshell** » Fri Jul 11, 2008 10:31 am

Right, so, basically...

How long before some wanker claims that "the clone Doctor's human heartbeat echoing back in time" is the explanation for why a confused post-regeneration Paul McGann claimed to be half-human?

Some ****er's going to try it, you realise.

Post by **inflatable dalek** » Fri Jul 11, 2008 11:15 am

Well no, it's obivous isn't it? The clone Doctor can regenerate, and after six such regenerations does so into Sylvester McCoy. He then finds Pete's world's Doctor's abandoned Tardis and goes of for all sorts of exciting adventures before a run in with the alternate Master turns him into Paul McGann.

See, the the Doctor was talking about his Mother, he meant Donna. This also neatly explains every odd continuity flaw, why the Daleks have silly voices and why the Doctor is up for a shag.

Ackula · Post by **Ackula** » Fri Jul 11, 2008 2:57 pm

inflatable dalek wrote:Well no, it's obivous isn't it? The clone Doctor can regenerate, and after six such regenerations does so into Sylvester McCoy. He then finds Pete's world's Doctor's abandoned Tardis and goes of for all sorts of exciting adventures before a run in with the alternate Master turns him into Paul McGann.

See, the the Doctor was talking about his Mother, he meant Donna. This also neatly explains every odd continuity flaw, why the Daleks have silly voices and why the Doctor is up for a shag.

I think you just invented a "Unicron Singularity" for the Who continuity. Bravo, that really is fantastic reasoning! An excellent way to explain away any continuity discrepancy.

I'm not sure why, but for some reason I don't hate the last season anywhere near as much as you guys do. There were some episodes that were bordering on shitty, but the vast majority were really entertaining to say the least. The finale was really good to me, despite certain aspect being telegraphed miles before they happened.

Maybe its because I'm a new fan to Doctor Who? I can honestly say though, I have come to appreciate and prefer many of the old episodes over the new series in the past couple of months that I have been watching them. Its really quite clear that Tom Baker was one of the best incarnations, and I have become quite fond of McCoy's version as well. Really the only one that seems to annoy me is the 6th Doctor, for some reason I'm not too fond of him.

Post by **Denyer** » Fri Jul 11, 2008 4:51 pm

Kali wrote:I'm not sure why, but for some reason I don't hate the last season anywhere near as much as you guys do.

I don't either, though my favourite is still the Unicorn/Wasp one...

Sorry, haven't read the rest of the thread.

Will try to do something fancy and clicky with javascript for improved spoiler boxes at some point, just not now/soon.

Cliffjumper · Post by **Cliffjumper** » Fri Jul 11, 2008 6:13 pm

Hate is probably a very strong word... I just thought it was, for the most part, undiluted shit. It's happened to the series before (the old Series 3, Pertwee, Silver Nemesis) and it'll happen again.

I had a much bigger issue with the preachiness, self-satisfaction, dodgy tone, and general twattiness of the Doctor and the other good guys than I did with the scripts per se, though casting was a big problem too. With a script editor, and a production team less hell-bent on extracting maximum publicity, the season would have been salvagable.

Post by **inflatable dalek** » Fri Jul 11, 2008 7:19 pm

On average, this run was a huge improvement on last year for me. Whilst nothing was as amazing brilliant as Human Nature/Blink there was only one really awful story in The Doctor's Daughter (I'm now deeply worried it was the moff who stopped her being killed, companion for season 5 perchance?). Everything else romaed from the brilliant through to good Saturday night fun (which Who should always be really). And yes, whilst she fell down a bit at the last hurdle I still thought Donna was fine, better than Martha and a disctinct improvement on the bulk of the original runs girls (though the show will have to go a long way to find someone as awful as Jo Grant or Nyssa that still counts as damning with faint praise to a certain extent).

And in conversations over the week (and if nothing else the publicity gimmick certainly seems to have gotten 'em watching) I've been repeatedly told this was the best run of Who ever, and the people saying it range from those who are only vaguely aware there was any pre 2005 to ones who remember Patrick Troughton (the views of William Hartnell lovers are unrecorded due to most of them being as senile as he was by now).

Though that's said that the program is regarded differently by the public than it is by us fans, they view it as always having been great campy Childrens TV nonsense with a few scary bits in and as long as it delivers that (and has the addend bonus of not having the wobbly sets they're convinced they remember) it wins. Similar to how trek fans regard the oriignal show as a great ode to human nature whilst the rest of us think of it being about Kirk fighting monsters by women in mini skirts and soft focus.

Cliffjumper · Post by **Cliffjumper** » Fri Jul 11, 2008 7:23 pm

Got to love the way your views are always backed up by various people you talk to. That must be pretty handy.

Chromia · Post by **Chromia** » Fri Jul 11, 2008 7:52 pm

For me...I really stopped trying to make sense of every little bit of bad writing, plot hole, and well...obvious bad episodes.

I've loved Who for years, and was delighted to see the new series start back up in 2005. There have been some absolutely brilliant episodes, and a few I admit, I'd rather they never existed.

And after joining a few more Who sites...I was saddened to see people taking a show, and trying to make it something it's not.

Now, Who could have been a resounding piece of well written and well researched TV history that even the most hard core sci-fi fan would drool over each and every week, for it's sheer brilliance.

But, much as I love it...it's just not.

It could also go the other way and just be written 10 minutes before each airing in the back on some guys garage. And then forgotten in a day or so by everyone.

But for me Doctor Who is one of those shows that daggonit...I just love. In all it's cheesy, over the top, fanwanky, plot holes of swiss cheese, and even the tin dog.

I know everyone see's it differently, but me..

I just turn on the TV, sit back, and expect to be entertained for about an hour with a show that exists for just that reason, really. Some good, some bad, some utterly amazing...and some that just suck.

But, I'm happy.

And yeah...I'm sure that about 99% of fans all saw that ending of cramming all the companions in at the last second, even if it was for no real reason.

But it make me smile. And that's all I want.

Post by **inflatable dalek** » Fri Jul 11, 2008 7:53 pm

Cliffjumper wrote:Got to love the way your views are always backed up by various people you talk to. That must be pretty handy.

Not when they don't agree with me it isn't. I don't think this is the best ever season, not by a long stretch.

EDIT: And yeah, Chromia's reaction is pretty much what I was talking about in terms of what other people have been saying to me. So it's not all in me head...

Cliffjumper · Post by **Cliffjumper** » Sat Jul 12, 2008 6:01 pm

Oh, I'd forgotten just how jaw-droppingly superb "The Happiness Patrol" is... the whole thing is just superb...

KANDYMAN: "I must say I'm finding this very tiresome..."
*Kandyman flips a coin over whether to kill Ace or the Doctor first*
THE DOCTOR: "Well?"
KANDYMAN: "That... would be telling!"

The snipers on the balcony! The crane shot over Helen A at the end! Earl Sigma, the jazz-playing psychology student and revolutionary! "Symbiosis - you need me and I need me"! The Doctor singing "As Time Goes By"! The whole idea that the Doctor hears of a regime he doesn't like, goes in and takes it down overnight!

Jetfire · Post by **Jetfire** » Sun Jul 13, 2008 1:33 am

inflatable dalek wrote:On average, this run was a huge improvement on last year for me. Whilst nothing was as amazing brilliant as Human Nature/Blink there was only one really awful story in The Doctor's Daughter (I'm now deeply worried it was the moff who stopped her being killed, companion for season 5 perchance?). Everything else romaed from the brilliant through to good Saturday night fun (which Who should always be really).

I have the opposite feeling about the series. I thought besides the Daleks 2 parter (and even then bits of the first part were well done) and the season finale last years series was the best series. Especially the post Dalek half. This years was generally fine but not as all out strong.

DrEvil · Post by **DrEvil** » Sun Jul 13, 2008 1:42 am

After watching most of it at the weekend [minus the first three episodes] I really enjoyed it. Some of it's a bit meh here and there but it's allright for today's Who.
After seeing a few clips of past series' I can't get over the general look of the Sylvester McCoy years. Just has such a distinct look, in my opinion, that for whatever reason I need to watch more of. o.o

Post by **inflatable dalek** » Sun Jul 13, 2008 10:29 am

Cliffjumper wrote:Oh, I'd forgotten just how jaw-droppingly superb "The Happiness Patrol" is... the whole thing is just superb...

Hell yes, wonderful bit of TV. The way he answers the phone is the best bit. Is that T-Bag as the head patrol girl?

The snipers on the balcony!

Nicely subverted in Battlefield as well. Seriously, Battlefield doesn't get enough love.

When I was checking to see if my DVD was one of the faulty ones I saw bits of The Invisible Enemy for the first time the other day. Dear God.

[For what it's worth, Amazon have the corrected set in stock. Anyone who does get a faulty one and sends it off is getting a free copy of The Hand of Fear sent with the replacement. I can live with the fault myself, I even think removing the death of the clone Doctor helps make the cliffhanger a bit more surprising.]

Halfshell · Post by **Halfshell** » Sun Jul 13, 2008 11:04 am

Cliffjumper wrote:The whole idea that the Doctor hears of a regime he doesn't like, goes in and takes it down overnight!

Very RTD.

Anyway, back on the subject of this year vs last. As Jets said, "Evolution of The Daleks in Manhattan" and "Last of the Panto Villains" aside, series 3 kicks seven shades of shit out of this year. The only thing's this year I've genuinely liked are Silence in the Library and, surprisingly, Midnight. Even if the latter is standard RTD "people are scum" - it shows that sometimes he can pull it off. Not hitting us round the head with it in an expositionary coda was a good call for once.

And, oddly, I may well prefer Silence in the Library to Human Nature. But one story that's better than anything last year doesn't excuse the rest of it being dross. Or maybe it's a relative enjoyment thing... SitL stood out more because it was surrounded by shit.

La de dah. Not that it's really important.

Cliffjumper · Post by **Cliffjumper** » Tue Jul 15, 2008 9:35 pm

Tate being shit gets a mention in The Fiver: -
http://football.guardian.co.uk/fiver/0,,415657,00.html

That pretty much moves it beyond opinion and into fact...

Post by **inflatable dalek** » Wed Jul 16, 2008 6:05 am

They could mean Bonnie Langford....

EDIT: More worryingly Tate is getting naked for her next stage role. Considering you don't properly see any of Billie's bits in that Prosy thing she did this is conclusive proof there is no God.

Post by **inflatable dalek** » Sun Jul 27, 2008 3:19 pm

The BBC Proms Cuttaway [Probably works better with the audience participation. Considering that, unlike the Children In Need stuff there's no direct link to any TV episodes the question of canon will no doubt rage long and hard]:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KwI-V4AdGYc

In other news:

There's going to be four episodes next year rather than three, two by RTD solo and two with other writers (one of whom is Gareth Roberts).

According to TV Zone the reason for only five Torchwood episodes is the Beeb not getting the Licence Fee they wanted. It's cheaper to have one crew working in Cardiff (going from SJA to Torchwood to Who) than to have two shows shooting at once that would need two crews.

electro girl · Post by **electro girl** » Sun Jul 27, 2008 3:31 pm

inflatable dalek wrote:They could mean Bonnie Langford....

EDIT: More worryingly Tate is getting naked for her next stage role. Considering you don't properly see any of Billie's bits in that Prosy thing she did this is conclusive proof there is no God.

Goodbye. (puts gun to head.)

But before I go I will say that I was quite unimpressed with this years show and I was mutch more imersed in Torchwood.

BANG!

Cliffjumper · Post by **Cliffjumper** » Sun Jul 27, 2008 4:03 pm

inflatable dalek wrote:(one of whom is Gareth Roberts)

I wonder which writer what people will know from the cinema will be in that one - Tolkien? Austen? Rowling? Jordan?