Overrated Films and TV

[inflatable dalek]

What really annoyed me about the Matrix films is that, as mediocre as it was, the second as least heavily implied there was going to be some sort of big cleaver twist coming. Then the third film was not only much worse, but it turned out the situation was exactly what we were told in the first movie. Meaning the bit where Neo uses his lightning hands in the real world remains resolutely unexplained. Bollocks.

I did like the fact the humans and machines made an uneasy peace rather than just the good guys killing the bad all dead (which is probably the only chance most of the guys and gals in the Matrix had), but other than that it just made me go meh.

[Auntie Slag]

Not that it needs the excuse, but badness like The Matrix (even though I like it) underlines the joyous brilliance of films like 'The Princess Bride'. I know its a tenuous link, but I just wanted to mention how great Princess Bride is.

You want pain? Try sitting through The Animatrix. Jeeesus!

[DrSpengler]

I'm going to have to say "E.T."

I never watched it as a kid and most of the people I've met who adore it do so out of fond childhood memories. I don't have that nostalgic attachment, so when I watch it now, all I see are terribly saccarine kids and bad special effects. It probably doesn't help that I saw all the parodies before I saw the actual movie, so none of the "magical" moments really struck a chord with me (like the bike flying and "I'll be.... right here.... Ell.... iot....").

It's just a kid's movie from the 80s that I find completely mediocre... kinda like "The Goonies", now that I think about it.

As a result of all that Spielberg-underwhelming, I'm almost afraid to watch "Close Encounters". I inherited the DVD years ago but never put forth the time to watch it. I'm wondering if it'll live up to the hype all Spielberg movies get whether they deserve them or not. Eh. I'll get around to it.


And on a more niche level, I never got the love for "Near Dark", myself. Bill Paxton is annoying as Hell in that thing. I'll stick with "Lost Boys" for my 1987 homoerotic vampire thrillers, thanks.

[Sixswitch]

Does anyone actually like the last two Matrix films? Even a little?

Yes.

And as for The Hangover - it's brilliant. You're all entitled to your opinions, but you're wrong. Fact*

As for overrated stuff... The one thing that springs to mind is American Graffiti. A truly terrible and boring film with no redeeming features at all that I can remember.

Was Quantum of Solace considered any good? I was terribly dissapointed by it after Casino Royale.

-Ss

*Blatantly not a fact.

[the_escaflowne_2k]

Star Wars I could take or leave, I can see why people like it but can't fathom the extent to which people love it.

Lord of the Rings; I can't imagine watching any of them ever again, I'm just not that big a fan of fantasy films/books/games so it has little appeal to me and would rather they just released a cut of things hitting each other for 30 mins and that was it.

Inception, it was rather good and very well shot, but it was not the besterest thing ever and I think they missed a trick after doing the early dream bits when they fold the world and create a bridge by opening mirror gate things (it's very imaginative) as the last 90 minutes are just set piece after set piece and the explosions hurt my ears.

[Notabot]

I really like the Matrix movies as well. It's interesting, though, that the special effects from the first one look much less dated than the ones from the second one. I did find the "dialogue" of the sequels annoying. No society that talks completely in fortune cookies deserves to survive.

The thing that blows me away about the first one is that not only does it do the special effects so well, but we forget that it was one of the first to do a lot of those things that have become cliche today. It's just a thing of beauty. Some action scenes in the second one are great, but you just can't beat the lobby scene.

As far as overrated TV, I've got to say that the British knockoff of "The Office"* isn't as brilliant as a lot of people think. I honestly think we did it better on our side of the pond.




Yes I know which one came first. And I'm typing in lemon chiffon right now!

[Cyberman]

Dark Knight gets props IMO simply because it is at least better than Batman Begins, which was also overrated and incredibly terrible.

Huh.
To me, it's the exact opposite. I liked Batman Begins, but I loathe Dark Knight.

[edit]Matrix was nice. The sequels were stupid, IMO. Not enough explanation of what exactly is going on.

[Auntie Slag]

@Dr. Spengler: I think Close Encounters is a good film. Definitely worth a watch and addictive in its way, like the first Jaws film. Its not mushy, hasn't been overly pastiched since (there's one or two obvious ones out there), and it made me want to watch all the way through to the end.

I remember the E.T. craze the first time around as a kid, and I didn't like it then either.

This thread needs an 'Underrated films and TV' sister thread.

[Summerhayes]

Batman Begins and Dark Knight are two of my favourite films.
I enjoy the second two Matrix films for their fights (I'm basically a child, I love it when it all comes down to one fight and the world hangs in the balance and the goodies win and yay!!!)
Avatar was shit, I'll admit, but I have fond memories of watching it in 3d because the dragons and everything looked amazing and the fight was good. I figure if I never watch it again, I'll be able to cherish my memories of enjoying it.
New Who, old Who and every Who in between are bloody excellent and no-one can tell me otherwise.
Close Encounters was a lot of fun the first time I watched it but would be dull to watch it again.
I never saw E.T young enough to like it now, but it seemed nice enough when I did see it.
I loved CR and QOS.
Shutter Island was crap, but me and my friends have gotten so much fun out of drawling "I am a dooly apointed federal maaaaahshalllll" in bad Boston accents that I look back on it fondly now.
Torchwood was crap until season 3 which, apart from a rushed ending, was chilling and excellent.

It always amuses me how much sci-fi/ comic-book/ any other kind of nerds always hate what they're supposedly fans of.

[Rack 'n Ruin]

Yes I know which one came first. And I'm typing in lemon chiffon right now!

Well, it is this season's colour. Culottes?

[Auntie Slag]

I watched Avatar in 3D at the cinema. The 3D glasses just muted all the pretty colours. It was like someone turned the contrast all the way down. I ended up looking over the top of my glasses half the time, the bluriness was worth it for the pretty and colourful jungle sections.

Can't be arsed to watch another film in 3D for that reason.

[Blackjack]

Batman Begins, because it had so much potential as a reboot, yet was screwed up by being so mediocre and boring. I like the Dark Knight for some reason, probably because of the same reasons I like ROTF. Begins was a disaster, though. Unlike the Iron Man or even the X-Men series, which were a load of fun, watching the Batman movies is an ordeal.

For the record, I hated Casino Royale. Quantum of Solace was only slightly marginally better because the villain had a personality. But the whole thing's just offset by Daniel Craig basically making Jack Bauer out of James Bond. Where is his style? Yeah, I know, keep to the novels, but I like the old Broccoli Bond villains...

For all its hype, Avatar have always failed to impress. I mean, great CG and plot, yeah, but pretty shallow and basically relies on the visual CG and camera angles to tell the story. I enjoyed it, and think it's a pretty fun and great movie, but I don't think it deserved all the hype. Can't stand up to multiple rewatches, that's for certain. Especially the narm in the fight at the end.

Tron Legacy. Dear god, Tron.

Star Wars, meh, I read the novels and still am a fan for some reason, but if you don't read all the background information and watch straight to the movies you'll get a migraine. Especially the prequel trilogy. I went 'WTF?' when watching episode three. As for Star Trek... I tried watching the early stuff, but can't get to it.

Ditto for E.T. Maybe it's because I was scared shitless out of that bloody puppet when I was little, but rewatching it at an older age made me go 'huh', and that's about it.

I watched the first Matrix movie, but never touched the sequels. Thought the first one was pretty fun.

The Hurt Locker. Gad, I can't even think how anyone could think that shit is good. Academy awards must be blind. Total bullshit that's worse than anything I could think about. Did anyone outside of the academy awards even like it?

[Paul053]

Yeah.... E.T. I will keep the good memories from my childhood. I remembered I never bothered watching it again even when it was on TV. Later, never bother about the DVD and never bother introducing it to my kids. I know my son will leave his seat in 10 minutes.

Star Wars. My son is starting to get into it now, which I don't blame him and don't stop him. Because I was also a huge of a fan of SW before Lucas's self franchise destruction. That self destruction wasn't even the prequel trilogy but when he reworked/added the scenes for the original trilogy. That was totally drawing legs to snake, unnecessary (well, a Chinese old story. There was a snake drawing contest, an artist finished his drawing so fast and he got bored waiting for others to finish, so he drew legs to his snake. He then lost the contest because his drawing was neither a snake nor a dragon). Years ago when the DVD was released, I accidentally bought the reworked version and was totally regret.

Yeah, Batman Begin. I felt so bad and so strange after watching it. Well, I should say Batman is really hard to film. It's tone is best to be in the 50s to 70s and I don't think it fits well with the modern society. I mean, Super Man, Spider Man, Iron Man can all fit well with time change but IMO Batman doesn't. On the other hand, after taking some times to adjust myself and accept the truth (of needs to be modern because of modern kids), it wasn't bad. Of course Dark Knight is much better but I think it's because I already accepted the new tone. If it was the first, I probably won't accept the new Joker as well.

[DrSpengler]

@Dr. Spengler: I think Close Encounters is a good film. Definitely worth a watch and addictive in its way, like the first Jaws film. Its not mushy, hasn't been overly pastiched since (there's one or two obvious ones out there), and it made me want to watch all the way through to the end.

Oh yeah, I'll definately give it a watch before I make up my mind about it, that's for sure. It's just one of those "been on my To Watch list forever" kinda movies that I'm genuinely unsure if I'll *ever* get around to seeing. Like "The Godfather", "Casablanca" or "Gone With the Wind".


Since the thread's on the subject of "Batman Begins", I do enjoy the film, though there are things about it that really bug me and didn't bug me until someone pointed them out. Now they're all I can see.

Also, "No, I will not kill this farmer but I WILL blow up your entire headquarters, inadvertantly killing your leader and probably a whole bunch of ninjas, too" bothers me just as much as Batman using a machinegun in the first Tim Burton flick.

[Warcry]

The fact it was so lauded by Scorsese sycophants and 'critics' the world over

I feel just about the same way about The Departed. It's not a terrible movie by any stretch of the imagination, but it plods along aimlessly for long stretches and none of the characters are even remotely sympathetic. There's some great acting in there and I enjoyed it, but I don't think it was anywhere near the brilliant masterpiece that a lot of people tell me it is.

Mainly I think the critics went into a "this guy will be dead soon, we'd better give him an award for something!" panic and slapped the "masterpiece" title on the next movie Scorsese produced that was even remotely passable.

Not that it needs the excuse, but badness like The Matrix (even though I like it) underlines the joyous brilliance of films like 'The Princess Bride'. I know its a tenuous link, but I just wanted to mention how great Princess Bride is.

I watched this for the first time about two weeks ago and can't say enough how much I agree with you. If I'd known the guy from the Mel Brooks Robin Hood movie was in it, I would've watched it ages ago.

And speaking of Mel Brooks and overrated...Mel Brooks is overrated. Every movie he makes tries to be a witty parody of something (genre convention, racism, etc...), a surreal farce and a juvenile romp full of dick jokes and fart noises all at once, and never manages to do as good a job of any of it as it he could if he picked one and focused on it. I enjoyed his movies a lot more as a kid than I do now. Spaceballs doesn't even draw a smile from me anymore and Blazing Saddles is much less funny once the "I can't believe they said that!" factor wears off, making me afraid to rewatch other movies of his that I enjoyed, like his Robin Hood, because I don't want to ruin my childhood memories of them.

[DrSpengler]

And speaking of Mel Brooks and overrated...Mel Brooks is overrated. Every movie he makes tries to be a witty parody of something (genre convention, racism, etc...), a surreal farce and a juvenile romp full of dick jokes and fart noises all at once, and never manages to do as good a job of any of it as it he could if he picked one and focused on it. I enjoyed his movies a lot more as a kid than I do now. Spaceballs doesn't even draw a smile from me anymore and Blazing Saddles is much less funny once the "I can't believe they said that!" factor wears off, making me afraid to rewatch other movies of his that I enjoyed, like his Robin Hood, because I don't want to ruin my childhood memories of them.

I've always felt that Mel Brooks films are the "Scary/Epic/Date Movie" of their era.

And I really can't get into any films starring Woody Allen, either. The "LOL this Jewish stereotype is nervous about everything" schtick wears then incredibly fast and becomes positively obnoxious. Yes, "Annie Hall" was edited out of sequence and that's brilliant or something. Doesn't mean everything Woody Allen does is a cinematic masterpiece.

Likewise, I really can't sit through episodes of Seinfeld anymore, as it's pretty much "Woody Allen: The Series".

[Cliffjumper]

Yup, never fond of Mel Brooks - hugely inflated reputation due to limited competition at the time. To be fair, comedy dates rapidly, especially anything before Fawlty Towers really introduced carpet-bombing scenes with jokes... but mitigating circumstances don't make Brooks films any funnier, especially the really tired "Hey, what was a hit last year? Let's make it, but with silly names!" shit.

Segue 1: I do like me some Cary Elwes, though. Shame he appeared in so few good films. I just love the way he seems to have escaped from a 1940s swasbuckler and doesn't really seem to understand a lot of what's going on around him.

Segue 2: Talking of Fawlty Towers, it isn't overrated, it's genius. But Monty Python is incredibly overrated... Life of Brian is good, and in places really, really good. Holy Grail's awesome when you're 16, but pretty tiring after a while. Meaning of Life is a Farrely Brothers film with Oxbridge accents.

The TV series (which is known to most people through the all-killer no-filler And Now for Something Completely Different) is largely shite, though. The hit-rate is something like 1 in 10, and while the 1 might be great, the other 9 are often really, really terrible, and most of the sketches just go on. Whenever I hear some cretin quoting the Knights Who Say 'Ni' I have an overwhelming urge to strap them into a Clockwork Orange-style chair and make them watch all four series.

Segue 3: I like A Clockwork Orange. It's Malcolm McDowell's last acting performance, it's one of the few Kubrick films which isn't Kubrick going "Ooooh, Steadicam and needlessly complicated editing!", the score's excellent, and it's just really strange. It's not as good as "if", though, and does tend to suffer from film bores automatically declaring anything Kubrick made better than anything Kubrick didn't make.

EDIT: I like Annie Hall, and Manhattan... I don't think they're superb, but they're alright... With Manhattan it's the score and the cinematography that does most of the work, though - all films should look and sound like that.

I also love the British Office, but personally prefer Extras (and prefer Peep Show and several others to either). The British one depends a lot more on how much you latch onto Tim and Dawn.

[DrSpengler]

EDIT: I like Annie Hall, and Manhattan... I don't think they're superb, but they're alright... With Manhattan it's the score and the cinematography that does most of the work, though - all films should look and sound like that.

Yeah, I can agree with you on that. I just think Woody Allen would have been better directing movies than starring in them.

[Notabot]

I also love the British Office, but personally prefer Extras (and prefer Peep Show and several others to either). The British one depends a lot more on how much you latch onto Tim and Dawn.

I think that's the problem: the characters just aren't that likable. US Office has over the top characters, but they all have some kind of redeeming qualities. Every one of them is at one time lovable and at another time detestable.

Speaking of Extras, I picked up the first season for 4 bucks a while back at the pawn shop. It's funny at times, but most of the funny bits are easily viewable on Youtube. You don't have to see the whole episode for the funny bits to work, and that makes me wonder why I'm bothering to watch the whole episode sometimes.

[Cliffjumper]

I dunno, I think nearly all the British characters do have redeeming qualities - David wants so badly to be good at everything that he's like a child and it's difficult to dislike him, Gareth's a harmless paper tiger and again it's difficult to hold his bluster against him, Tim and Dawn are both doing what they can while facing up to the reality that their lives aren't going to amount to much and so on... The only exceptions are Chris, who's meant to be an absolute piece of shit so the payoff works, and Lee, again so the payoff works.

I dunno, maybe it's a cultural thing - working and living in the UK, I've come acorss people with a lot of similarities to most of the characters and find it pretty easy to spot when they're doing something bad for a good reason or because of social convention, so maybe it's a British thing. I mean, they had a reason for changing it completely for the US.