Star Wars or Star Trek?

Chat about stuff other than Transformers.

Trek or Wars?

Star Trek
19
49%
Star Wars
20
51%
 
Total votes: 39

User avatar
Prowl1984
Posts: 2394
Joined: Mon Dec 13, 2004 4:29 am
Location: Arriving somewhere but not here

Post by Prowl1984 »

I voted Star Wars despite my love for both franchises purely on the fact that KOTOR 1 & 2 are 2 of the best games I've ever played and Star Wars characters aren't as similar to eachother as Star Trek characters are. Oh and I prefer the expanded universe.
Image

"No point in long goodbyes, here's the door."

"Life's a trip, and then you die" -
Hunter S.Thompson
1937-2005 :smokin:
User avatar
Sixswitch
Posts: 8295
Joined: Thu Dec 20, 2001 5:00 am
Location: Sent to outer space, to find another happy place.
Contact:

Post by Sixswitch »

Star Trek by a mile. DS9 is brilliant, and the relaunch books are great, as is the Titan series. TNG is quite good fun, and Voyager has its moments.

I never got the fuss about Star Wars, OK, the originals are decent ways to spend a couple of hours, but I don't get why everyone goes nuts over them. I will say though that KOTOR 1 is epic and 2 was very good also. In fact I'm more into these two games than any other form of Star Wars media.

-Ss
Image
I found God. Then I lost him. He'll probably turn up down the back of the sofa someday.
"The early bird gets the worm, but the early worm is ****ed."
"I'm not oppressing you Stan, but you haven't got a womb. Where's the fetus going to gestate? You going to keep it in a box?"
User avatar
Prowl1984
Posts: 2394
Joined: Mon Dec 13, 2004 4:29 am
Location: Arriving somewhere but not here

Post by Prowl1984 »

DS9 was probably the only series that I found to be constantly good. plus it was nice to have a long running story arc. When it comes down to it though i find it to be an almost impossible decision due to the fact that one is a TV series and the other a series of films. I mean if Star Wars had started out as a TV show it'd be muuuch different but as it stands I enjoy them both pretty much equally.

Besides, this is all pointless as BSG remake wins outright.
Image

"No point in long goodbyes, here's the door."

"Life's a trip, and then you die" -
Hunter S.Thompson
1937-2005 :smokin:
User avatar
Notabot
Posts: 2142
Joined: Sun Feb 12, 2006 4:15 am
Location: Lowden, IA

Post by Notabot »

The thing I disliked about Deep Space 9 was that they undid the whole Trek part. I know they went places, but a stationary Star Trek always bothered me.
User avatar
inflatable dalek
Posts: 24000
Joined: Sat Apr 03, 2004 3:15 pm
Location: Kidderminster UK

Post by inflatable dalek »

Prowl1984 wrote: Besides, this is all pointless as BSG remake wins outright.
Even though Ron Moore just recycled old Deep Space Nine (and Trek in general) ideas for it? Lead villains being capable of looking just like us and who have a "No Cylon/Changling has never hurt another" thing and a leader who's big on genocide, the God like beings who communicate by taking the form of people from your past, the secondary character losing a leg... and that's only off the top of my head (and not including little thing like the Astral Queen and the scene in Hero taken alomst work for word from The Defector where they work out the Cylons/Romulans were really trying to destroy the ship they were chasing...).

In short, BSG is only awesome because Star Trek is.
REVIISITATION: THE HOLE TRUTH
STARSCREAM GOES TO PIECES IN MY LOOK AT INFILTRATION #6!
PLUS: BUY THE BOOKS!
User avatar
Cyberman
Posts: 1287
Joined: Fri Sep 13, 2002 9:30 pm

Post by Cyberman »

Star Trek.

Star Wars does have it's good points, but compared to Star Trek it just feels unrealistic, especially the new movies of course.
Trek has its flaws - lots of them. But, aside from the depiction of that so-called utopian earth, it feels more natural.
Prowl1984 wrote:Besides, this is all pointless as BSG remake wins outright.
The BSG remake would be great if they could find a cameraman who doesn't have parkinson.
Bad joke aside, this constant shaking even when everyone is standing still is making me seasick.
(Also, I grew to hate that two-faced speciest Roslin.)
In a perfect world, this would be a signature. As it stands, it's just the lack of.
User avatar
Prowl1984
Posts: 2394
Joined: Mon Dec 13, 2004 4:29 am
Location: Arriving somewhere but not here

Post by Prowl1984 »

inflatable dalek wrote:Even though Ron Moore just recycled old Deep Space Nine (and Trek in general) ideas for it? Lead villains being capable of looking just like us and who have a "No Cylon/Changling has never hurt another" thing and a leader who's big on genocide, the God like beings who communicate by taking the form of people from your past, the secondary character losing a leg... and that's only off the top of my head (and not including little thing like the Astral Queen and the scene in Hero taken alomst work for word from The Defector where they work out the Cylons/Romulans were really trying to destroy the ship they were chasing...).

In short, BSG is only awesome because Star Trek is.
Yeah but BSG did it better IMO. Plot aside I found the characters in BSG to be a lot more believable and interesting than any of the characters in Star Trek. Don't get me wrong, there are characters in Trek that I outright love, I just feel that more could have been done with them. The latest movie is a promising start though.

One major advantage Star Trek did have was the freedom to go "hey here's a good idea for a sci-fi story/concept, let's do an episode about that" rather than being confined to a primary storyline.
Image

"No point in long goodbyes, here's the door."

"Life's a trip, and then you die" -
Hunter S.Thompson
1937-2005 :smokin:
User avatar
inflatable dalek
Posts: 24000
Joined: Sat Apr 03, 2004 3:15 pm
Location: Kidderminster UK

Post by inflatable dalek »

Plus, there's nothing as awesome in all of Star Wars as this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LWd0G9cw ... re=related

I still remember the build up to the BBC2 screening especially the facts they'd lost the first run rights to Sky and it looked like there might be a full year between the two parts. Luckily they sorted out some sort of special deal that let them show the first episode of season 4, and when they eventually got round to it they made a special "Previously on..." recap for Family.
REVIISITATION: THE HOLE TRUTH
STARSCREAM GOES TO PIECES IN MY LOOK AT INFILTRATION #6!
PLUS: BUY THE BOOKS!
User avatar
the_escaflowne_2k
Protoform
Posts: 639
Joined: Fri May 07, 2004 11:12 pm
Location: Under a cloud, no atlas though [Manchester].

Post by the_escaflowne_2k »

Star Trek, whilst I enjoyed Star wars as a young 'un I still enjoy Star Trek now, to a point that even surprises me, for instance everytime I catch an episode of TNG it ends up being better than I thought it would be [excluding -as many have mentioned- Voyager & Enterprise]. Though overall my Sci-Fi franchise love goes:

Babylon 5>Star Trek>Battlestar>Farscape>>Star Wars
Image
"all i can say is that my life is pretty plain, you don't like my point of view you think that i'm insane"
User avatar
Prowl1984
Posts: 2394
Joined: Mon Dec 13, 2004 4:29 am
Location: Arriving somewhere but not here

Post by Prowl1984 »

the_escaflowne_2k wrote:
Babylon 5>Star Trek>Battlestar>Farscape>>Star Wars
A fine selection! I forgot to factor B5 into this, yes the above youtube vid of TNG is a fantastic cliffhanger but I still think Sheridan taking out the Shadow's capital city in a blaze of atomic glory whilst jumping into a massive chasm wins outright. Especially with G'Kar's "Moments of Transition, Moments of Revelation" speech at the end. Actually sod BSG, Star Trek and Star Wars, B5 is teh winnaaar. yes i am that fickle....
Image

"No point in long goodbyes, here's the door."

"Life's a trip, and then you die" -
Hunter S.Thompson
1937-2005 :smokin:
User avatar
Wildrider
Posts: 1573
Joined: Wed Jan 05, 2005 10:29 pm
Location: Sneaking out the back door since 1978
Contact:

Post by Wildrider »

Babylon 5 was excellent up until the conclusion of the 'War of Shadows' great build up and pay off, but then it kind of collapsed under it's own lore and multiple plot strands.

Shame, those Jack fighters were nifty and the space battles were always epic. But I kind of lost interest after Ivonova left, Garibaldi went bad and that plum Marcus the ranger appeared.

Stupid English actors.

I have been tempted by the super duper box sets though, just to relive all that race hatred between G'Kar and the other fellow, that was decent, bit of ethnic cleansing in space is always good viewing.
User avatar
Heinrad
Posts: 6281
Joined: Sun Dec 23, 2001 5:00 am
Location: Riskin' it all on my Russian Roulette!

Post by Heinrad »

Star Trek. I prefer the Original series to the rest of it, although I do like Enterprise. At least the parts where Moore and Braga weren't trying to make it part of the TNG timeline.

Favorite episode? The Doomsday Machine. Nothing Star Wars has done can come close to that. Although Clone Wars might be able to match it if they handle Anakin right.
As a professional tanuki (I'm a Japanese mythological animal, and a good luck charm), I have an alarm clock built into me somewhere. I also look like a stuffed animal. And you thought your life was tough......

3DS Friend Code: 1092-1274-7642
User avatar
Sades
Posts: 9483
Joined: Tue Jan 02, 2001 5:00 am
Location: I APOLOGISE IN ADVANCE

Post by Sades »

Actually, I retract my previous statement.

I prefer Jem over MLP.
User avatar
Halfshell
Posts: 19167
Joined: Sat Sep 16, 2000 4:00 am
Location: Don't complain to me. I don't care.
Contact:

Post by Halfshell »

Ref: Star Trek vs Star Wars

Which one has Nathan Fillion in?
User avatar
Warcry
Posts: 13935
Joined: Fri Aug 23, 2002 4:10 am
Location: Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada

Post by Warcry »

inflatable dalek wrote:Plus, there's nothing as awesome in all of Star Wars as this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LWd0G9cw ... re=related
Those two episodes are easily the best thing in any sci-fi show, ever. I loved them as a kid and I when I rewatched them about six months back I sort of expected them to suck like most of the things I loved as a kid do on rewatch (like the Transformers cartoon, or a lot of other TNG episodes) but nope. I actually liked them more now than I did then. It's really a shame that so much of TNG is forgettable, episodic crap because episodes like these two (and Chain of Command too) show that the people involved could make really good TV when they set their minds to it.

Actually I think that probably holds true for Star Wars as well. All of the Movies are fun to some extent, even the Prequels. But Empire Strikes Back is the only one out of the six that's actually any good, and I find that having ESB around to compare the others to makes me enjoy them less than I would have otherwise. By the same token, the really, really good bits of TNG, DS9 and Enterprise, along with the handful of good movies, have dulled my enthusiasm for the rest of the franchise because they just don't stand up by comparison.

I'd choose Star Trek over Star Wars if I had to, though, just because there's so much more Trek (and thus a lot more good Trek) than there is Star Wars. Babylon 5 and the new BSG were both much better shows, though.
User avatar
Halfshell
Posts: 19167
Joined: Sat Sep 16, 2000 4:00 am
Location: Don't complain to me. I don't care.
Contact:

Post by Halfshell »

Warcry wrote:But Empire Strikes Back is the only one out of the six that's actually any good, and I find that having ESB around to compare the others to makes me enjoy them less than I would have otherwise.
Decent piece from on-set, if you've not read it before:
http://twitpic.com/3blasf/full

Makes you wonder how naff it would have turned out without Kirshner hammering it into shape.
User avatar
inflatable dalek
Posts: 24000
Joined: Sat Apr 03, 2004 3:15 pm
Location: Kidderminster UK

Post by inflatable dalek »

Warcry wrote:Those two episodes are easily the best thing in any sci-fi show, ever. I loved them as a kid and I when I rewatched them about six months back I sort of expected them to suck like most of the things I loved as a kid do on rewatch (like the Transformers cartoon, or a lot of other TNG episodes) but nope. I actually liked them more now than I did then. It's really a shame that so much of TNG is forgettable, episodic crap because episodes like these two (and Chain of Command too) show that the people involved could make really good TV when they set their minds to it.
I think what makes BOBW work is that they didn't go for the all out action epic (and Voyager showed perfectly there's no way you can beat an unstoppable foe in a straight fight without ruining them). It's a slow, careful buildup that turns into an exercise in tension. The cliffhanger works because there was a real chance they'd kill Picard off, what's even more impressive is that at the end of Part 2 when Riker orders the ram it really feels like it could happen, despite the unlikely nature of them killing everyone in the first episode of the season.

Only real shame about the story is it builds Riker up ready for him to take over the show if Stewart did leave, so once Picard came back his character is just sort of stuck in one place he's moved on from for over a decade. I'm not even sure why they demoted him back to Commander after saving Earth, Spock got to stay Kirk's first officer even though they were both Captains.

Halfshell wrote:Decent piece from on-set, if you've not read it before:
http://twitpic.com/3blasf/full

Makes you wonder how naff it would have turned out without Kirshner hammering it into shape.
I used to have the book that extract is taken from, it's the most candid and honest contemporary making of I've ever read, which is especially impressive considering it's by the films PR guy. They had all sort of trouble making it and there's something of a dark mood throughout because if it had failed it would have completely broken Lucas and lost him everything the first one made. Which if nothing else shows he puts his money where his mouth is. Mind, it says it all that the best of the films is the one he had the least direct involvement with.

EDIT: Mind, Empire is also by far and away Kershner's best film (Robocop 2? Never Say Never Again?) so perhaps he and Lucas brought out the best in each other?
REVIISITATION: THE HOLE TRUTH
STARSCREAM GOES TO PIECES IN MY LOOK AT INFILTRATION #6!
PLUS: BUY THE BOOKS!
User avatar
Warcry
Posts: 13935
Joined: Fri Aug 23, 2002 4:10 am
Location: Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada

Post by Warcry »

Halfshell wrote:Decent piece from on-set, if you've not read it before:
http://twitpic.com/3blasf/full

Makes you wonder how naff it would have turned out without Kirshner hammering it into shape.
Never read that particular one before, but I vaguely remember reading a few other, similar articles in the past. I don't think George Lucas could have managed directing such a dark story on his own. When he tried with Episode 3 it turned out really flat.
inflatable dalek wrote:Only real shame about the story is it builds Riker up ready for him to take over the show if Stewart did leave, so once Picard came back his character is just sort of stuck in one place he's moved on from for over a decade. I'm not even sure why they demoted him back to Commander after saving Earth, Spock got to stay Kirk's first officer even though they were both Captains.
Got to agree with this. Not only had Riker earned his stripes (well, fine, his pips) by the end of the episode, but Picard had just been completely subsumed by an alien hive mind. Seeing Riker demoted and Picard put back in charge like nothing had even happened to either of them was a huge facepalm moment even when I was a kid. It's a shame that the story was written in the 80s when status quo was god, because they could have gotten a lot of good mileage out of having Captain Riker in charge and Picard onboard in a different (civilian) capacity, even after Stewart decided to stay on the show. And even as much as I like Patrick Stewart, a part of me sort of wishes that he hadn't come back just because I'm curious what direction the show would have gone off in.

Riker's character understandably stagnated after that, because there was nowhere else for him to go from there. He stopped being an ambitious career-driven officer and started being "that guy with the beard", as more and more screen time got devoted to Data and Worf.
inflatable dalek wrote:Mind, it says it all that the best of the films is the one he had the least direct involvement with.
The same could be said for Roddenberry too, couldn't it? The Movie franchise got a lot better after The Motionless Picture bombed (did it actually, or was it one of those "bad movie that everyone hated but made some money anyway" sort of flicks?) and Paramount kicked Gene upstairs where they could safely ignore his ideas, and TNG got a lot better after he got too sick to impose the weirdest of his...ahem...oddball communist utopian ideas on it.
Cliffjumper
Posts: 32206
Joined: Wed Jan 31, 2001 5:00 am

Post by Cliffjumper »

That Kershner article is wicked - note how much everyone gives a shit and thinks things through; I love the way he's thinking it through from every single character's POV.

I always like Riker because he was about the only one who seemed remotely human - he has a laugh, he bangs chicks, he isn't as stuffy and uptight as Picard. Whereas Picard has a horribly forced upper-class personality even on his downtime where he's playing boring detective stories and archeaology and trying to remember he's meant to be French.

I like the Motion Picture, it's great wallpaper if not a great film. Like Suspiria or Blowup or something. A mood piece. FOWTOWN TORRRRRPEEEEDOOOOS. I like the films better in general because there's more of a sense of them being people than vac-formed aspirational career bores (which is why Reg Barclay works so well, he's one of the few realistic people in TNG)... It's more prominent in II and VI where they get Nick Meyer in and he approaches them as films which just happen to be about Star Trek rather than Star Trek films, but the others have moments too.
User avatar
Jetfire
Posts: 6438
Joined: Mon Nov 06, 2000 5:00 am
Location: Hard traveling hero.

Post by Jetfire »

inflatable dalek wrote:Plus, there's nothing as awesome in all of Star Wars as this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LWd0G9cw ... re=related

I still remember the build up to the BBC2 screening especially the facts they'd lost the first run rights to Sky and it looked like there might be a full year between the two parts. Luckily they sorted out some sort of special deal that let them show the first episode of season 4, and when they eventually got round to it they made a special "Previously on..." recap for Family.

"Obi Wan never told you what happened to your father?"

However I do recall that epic cliffhanger, one of the best of all time. I was unaware of the sky taking it bit. All I thought at the time was I had to make sure I read the sun TV guide each week for when it returned as I had no real concept of series back then and was aware shows went away and came back but I was mostly worried that I should check each day in case they switch the day they showed it.

Both SW and ST are awesome, especialy in their pre-late 90's formats. ST:TNG seesm to be the last time the series was openly popular in the mainstream and not a "geeky" hobbie to follow. I suspose a lot of enteranly cults and subcultures are a result of the sky multi-channel entertainment model.

once mainstream was that it could be enjoyed by everybody, now it's more the thing that is bland enough to not be catagorised into a sub-grouping.
Image
Post Reply