US Senate votes to kill Starscream

Post by **Clay** » Tue Jul 21, 2009 7:57 pm

http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/us_usa_congress_defense

He'll have to adapt or die.

secretcode · Post by **secretcode** » Tue Jul 21, 2009 8:05 pm

Yes, but it's not like he'll have to change forms in the next movie. While not as much of a product placement situation as Ironhide's GM Topkick discontinuation, the military will most likely still be using the F-22, similiar to the F-14 and F-16's continued use.

Heinrad · Post by **Heinrad** » Tue Jul 21, 2009 9:34 pm

Here's hoping GM will still build vans.......

And Screamer won't have to change vehicle forms for quite a while. They shut down the production lines for the F-14 long before it went out of service. His main problem's going to come when, in disguise and sitting at a USAF/UNAF/U.N. Spacy base 20 years from now, the mechanics will be wondering why there's no wear and tear on his airframe.

In more immediate news, stripping 1.75 billion out of a 680 billion dollar budget is patheticly small. I'm hoping they're going to cut more out.

Post by **inflatable dalek** » Tue Jul 21, 2009 10:26 pm

Hmmm, and some people complain about the cost of the space program which has been about a sixth of that over fifty years.

How long before IDW claim the discontinuation of the F22 was their cunning in fiction reason for Starscream changing alt modes in All Hail Megatron? "Well, he thought if he was going to be a anachronistic plane he might as well be one with a 5 in the name, it's his lucky number".

Heinrad · Post by **Heinrad** » Tue Jul 21, 2009 11:24 pm

Well, from the admittedly rapid research I just did, Screamer could, if he wanted to, switch to the F-15, and he wouldn't stand out too much. Thanks to upgrades, the Strike Eagle's gonna be in service well past 2025.

The reasoning for discontinuing the Raptor makes sense(all it's designed to do is fight other fighter planes of it's generation, maybe one generation previous. No point to order new ones if the best the enemy is fielding for planes at the moment are hot air balloons and paper airplanes). If they're smart, they'll keep the Raptor molds in storage, so if the time comes that the enemy has an actual air force, we can order more. Unlike what they did with the Tomcat. "Hey, thanks to lobbyists and money grubbing politicians, we're going to destroy everything we need to make new Tomcat airframes! WOOHOO!!!" Then they complain, years later, that we need to replace the only fighter in existence(as far as I know) that can track 50 individual airborne targets and engage 6 at once, all because they're wearing out. Of COURSE they're wearing out! You idiots ensured that no new ones can be BUILT!!!!!! AARRGGHH!!!!!!!

What can I say? I like the old Tomcats. The F-14, after all, is the stepping stone to the VF-1.

And, as I understand it, the F-35 JSF is a cheaper plane anyway.... although if they're still going to do what I heard they want to do for the Marine variant, they're out of their minds. Gotta be better ways to update the Harrier concept than one big honking turbofan in the middle of the airframe.......

Notabot · Post by **Notabot** » Tue Jul 21, 2009 11:43 pm

The U.S. Senate voted on Tuesday to stop production of the F-22 fighter plane, handing President Barack Obama a victory as he tries to rein in defense spending.

Obama reining in spending. That's funny.

borg72 · Post by **borg72** » Wed Jul 22, 2009 1:00 am

This from the same senate that decided that switching to (or at least allowing use of) Firefox was "too expensive".

Although I have to agree on the reasoning for cancelling further Raptors. They have (literally) seen more action in movie theaters than combat theaters, and unless someone with an actual airforce (more or less just russia and western europe) gets ugly, it's gonna stay that way....

EDIT: having an anglogasm for someone pointing out how awesome the Harrier Jump Jet is... If i ever did roleplay, that'd be my RPG alt more...

Vin Ghostal · Post by **Vin Ghostal** » Wed Jul 22, 2009 1:59 am

Thrilled to see it. We spend way, WAY too much on defense as it is.

"If more than half the budget goes to military spending, less than half goes to whatever it's defending." -Dilated Peoples

Halfshell · Post by **Halfshell** » Wed Jul 22, 2009 8:07 am

inflatable dalek wrote:How long before IDW claim the discontinuation of the F22 was their cunning in fiction reason for Starscream changing alt modes in All Hail Megatron?

Bastard. I was going to make that joke.

Clogs · Post by **Clogs** » Wed Jul 22, 2009 8:23 am

F15 Eagle = classic, still going

F22 Raptor = meh... won't be missed

Harrier jump jet? Beautiful!

Halfshell · Post by **Halfshell** » Wed Jul 22, 2009 8:27 am

There are better phones on the market anyway, though the F-22 did have its benefits.

Post by **inflatable dalek** » Wed Jul 22, 2009 8:29 am

Halfshell wrote:Bastard. I was going to make that joke.

Such harsh words. Someone on another website who it turns out reads my reviews called me a "Internet personality" the other day. I've no idea how to take that.

Halfshell · Post by **Halfshell** » Wed Jul 22, 2009 8:35 am

I'd take it as an insult. They've clearly never met you, else they'd know you work hard to not have a personality.

Springer007 · Post by **Springer007** » Thu Jul 23, 2009 6:51 am

Well he can "rein" in spending when it comes to some things but not when it comes to bailouts of banks and lobbyists. Way to go Nobama.... I predict something will happen and we'll be crying for the use of state of the art air craft and/or weaponry, and when our other weapons are falling apart that we use at this current moment due to cutbacks, then what will we fight with, rocks? I'd rather see alot of spending go to defense, education, roads, renewable energies and NOT foreign aid. I bet no one in the news talks about the net amount the U.S. gives away to foreign countries to be our "fwiend" (notice my cutesy and sarcastic way of saying friend). But this is why I quit watching news and started reading books that cite sources that I can actually check up on.

Post by **inflatable dalek** » Thu Jul 23, 2009 7:35 am

And there ws me thinking most foreign aid was to help poor and destitute people in countries that are either unlikely to be any threat to any Western power in the future, or countries we'd screwed up in the first place.

Vin Ghostal · Post by **Vin Ghostal** » Thu Jul 23, 2009 11:59 am

Oh Springer, you're adorable.

Springer007 wrote:Well he can "rein" in spending when it comes to some things but not when it comes to bailouts of banks and lobbyists. Way to go Nobama

Yeah! Stuff that money under the mattress and let the economy burn!!!

Realistically, there's widespread agreement that, had the Democrats not initiated the stimulus spending, the economy would be in far worse shape than it is. Let's not forget the fact that the massive bailout packages originate with the Bush administration, as do our MASSIVE deficits. The great Bill Clinton had left us with budget surpluses and plenty of money in the bank, but it only took Bush a year to piss that all away.

Lobbyists? Not sure how they tie into the conversation, as they're not subject to federal spending, but OK. Lobbyists always have and always will be a fact of life in government, not just here but in any democratic format. Corporations will always have some measure of influence over legislation; to think anything else is just silly and naive.

Springer007 wrote:I predict something will happen and we'll be crying for the use of state of the art air craft and/or weaponry, and when our other weapons are falling apart that we use at this current moment due to cutbacks, then what will we fight with, rocks?

I actually laughed out loud when I read this. The U.S. has already amassed a military force larger than most of the rest of the world's forces put together. How much more do we need? And when has the U.S. EVER been in a position where their weaponry wasn't up to snuff? The U.S. could go 24 months without spending a DIME on new weaponry (only spending to replace necessary existing field supplies, like hummers/flak jackets/ammunition, etc.) and save hundreds of billions of dollars, and they'd still be miles ahead of any other fighting force. Besides, a lot of good all that advanced weaponry has done them on the modern battlefield - they haven't been able to decisively win either of two wars against ragtag squads of guys living in caves and tents with no training and little technology. But let's commission another hundred jets! Laughable.

Halfshell · Post by **Halfshell** » Thu Jul 23, 2009 12:01 pm

"If we don't buy more weapons, we'll lose the ones we have!!!!!111"

Christ alive.

Brimstone · Post by **Brimstone** » Thu Jul 23, 2009 1:31 pm

The problem with the F-22 is that it's so expensive, and by the time it might actually be needed, the counter measures for stealth will already be in place, and so it will lose a lot of its edge (making it not much better than the F-35 or some of the older aircraft). They already know how to counter stealth, it's just the type of radar needed is a lot more expensive.

But super-cruise is pretty friggin' cool! And I am actually truly sad to see the Raptor go.

inflatable dalek wrote:Hmmm, and some people complain about the cost of the space program which has been about a sixth of that over fifty years.

Amen!

There was an article a few weeks ago talking about NASA's budget and how people complain about how we spend too much on NASA. But NASA's entire budget over 50 years (even adjusted for inflation), is only a fraction of what we've spent to bail out the banks in the last 9 months.

Sad really.

Post by **inflatable dalek** » Thu Jul 23, 2009 1:40 pm

Vin Ghostal wrote: I actually laughed out loud when I read this. The U.S. has already amassed a military force larger than most of the rest of the world's forces put together. How much more do we need? And when has the U.S. EVER been in a position where their weaponry wasn't up to snuff?

Springer's based his theory on that episode of The Simpsons where it turns out the USSR was just playing possum being factually accurate.

Cliffjumper · Post by **Cliffjumper** » Thu Jul 23, 2009 1:45 pm

That's probably my favourite episode. "Da! That's vot ve wanted you to think"/"MUST... CRUSH... CAPITALISM...."