Transformers: More than Meets the Eye season two discussion

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zigzagger
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Post by zigzagger »

Rest of the preview is up @ Tformers.
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Post by inflatable dalek »

OUT AND READ.




















Hehehehehehehehehe. Roberts is so trolling Knightdramon, after all the heavy handed hints this issue I think it's a safe bet that the last person on Cybertron Tarn will turn out to be is Roller.




Other quick thoughts before I head off to work:


Dang, that was good.

Loved the half hearted excuses for the presence of all the characters who were already in the past ("Day release").

At the end the Sparks are sent to the place Hot Rod happens to come from, considering he's likely at least a bit younger than the likes of Pax did he actually just help with his own creation (and thus this is a circular paradox where their actions are already part of the past?).

What is Brainstorm up to jumping about through time? Actually being after Megatron at this point seems unlikely as he could have Got him at his first stop, but them Pax was fairly vulnerable out in the open like that here as well...

Fantastic double bluff on Trailbreaker there.

Boy, everyone was a bit too trusting about that handshake weren't they? In an age where these outlaws are presumably living in fear of brain alteration if they get caught no one notices Prime suddenly acting all odd after touching Chromedome?

[The "Past Prime interacts with future Autobots and then looses his memory of it" idea is reworked, incredibly loosely, from Eugenesis]

Has Windcharger been seen in the present? He's so awesome he might actually be Tarn.
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Post by Knightdramon »

Read it as well--brilliant stuff, but then again, a tad bit overhyped by Roberts himself ---"Best interiors from Alex Milne".

Considering that the last issue was densely packed and into proper sci-fi area, I thought this one would be, visually at least...richer than Pax and company in a desert! :lol:

That being said, it was a nice and full issue. I ain't sure why Tailgate is "allowed" back in time when more able bots could go back---everybody on the team serves a purpose except for him.

I feel the trolling as well when it comes to Tarn, but hey, I've been onto his identity for nearly 30 months now, it was about time I get some validation. -If- this is indeed him, then it was drawn out too long to have any real surprise, sadly. Still looking forward to it, as it appears Chromedome's tinkering actually made everybody forget about him when he went missing.

Neat background story with Zeta pulling the strings---he appears to genuinely be a good guy up until after he became a Prime. Perhaps we'll see him at the last part of this time travel?

Brainstorm's been set up for something else---I don't think he's out to kill Pax. Especially in the time periods he ends up at, Pax is already too famous and strong, not to mention surrounded by his own X-Men. It's like going after Whirl when he's in the Wreckers.

Windcharger was seen or mentioned in RID last year, I think...
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Post by Denyer »

Fastball special!
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Post by Unicron »

inflatable dalek wrote: Hehehehehehehehehe. Roberts is so trolling Knightdramon, after all the heavy handed hints this issue I think it's a safe bet that the last person on Cybertron Tarn will turn out to be is Roller.
My money is still on Roller getting swept up in the time jump and thus becoming a member of the Lost Light crew. Or a heroic sacrifice along the way to getting things fixed.
At the end the Sparks are sent to the place Hot Rod happens to come from, considering he's likely at least a bit younger than the likes of Pax did he actually just help with his own creation (and thus this is a circular paradox where their actions are already part of the past?).
Seems to be that you're right, that it's all one of those predestination things.
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Post by Red Dave Prime »

Hmmmm...

Not loving this as much as some of you. Its good... but not really engaging. Quite forget-able to be honest, much as the past bots feel.

Suffers on a few parts (and do bear in mind, I'm not saying this is a terrible issue, I just think it lacks a bit)

1. Roller - cover boy is really a side line player unless this is the actual origin of Tarn. Otherwise its a bit too much of a red-herring. Look at what we get here - Cover star. Addiction. Veeeerrry similar shoulders and head design. Told that the Megatron diarys are super inspiring. Very committed to causes. Gets the left side of his face shot off. Gets forgotten by his own troops, and probably picked up the head messing enemies. If he isn't tarn, then this is a waste. I'm all for sleight of hand but by this point, if Tarn aint roller than we will need a seperate plot to explain why not.

2. Time jumps - on the one hand, I like that Roberts is not spending too much time on the science of this and focusing on the story. But on the other hand, its very flimsy how so many of the LL crew can jump back - some of whom really dont have any need to.

3. The phone conversation - cute but not as cute as it wants to be. It felt unbelievable to be honest that Pax would converse with Megs so easily, even given that at this point they arent mortal enemies. He is still a law man and megs is still a dissident.

4. Speaking of Pax, He thrusts the story about the LL crew being linked to Sentinal far too easy - given that he only knows Whirl as a criminal and Thumbler / domey as possibly a member of the institute and recognises the autobot symbol as a sign of oppression.

Look, its not a bad issue and there are some really nice ideas going on here - Rodimus saving himself (once I read Nyon, that was an instant link), the reason prowl and domey break up, rewind knowing the alternate history and the trailcutter non-save were all cool. And while I'm not sure what interiors Roberts was raving about, I did love Milners Orion Pax art. But I think the issue itself is quite throw away and is only got some value if Tarn IS roller.

On that point, I was thinking that maybe at this point Roberts is happy that everyone knows who is behind the mask and is simply building up his main villain so that when we do get the big showdown with the actual lost light, it has some relevance. In that case, origins:tarn fits the bill nicely. Otherwise this issue just about fills the gap until the next.
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Post by zigzagger »

Some quick thoughts:

"Fun" just about describes my feelings for this issue. Not as thought-provoking (or shocking) as the previous chapter, just fun.

Not much in the way of explaining how all this time jumping/tracking business works; we just cut right to the chase. See, it was "magic" after all. I have to be right once in a while, you know

I thought it funny that, in typical Team Rodimus fashion, right after establishing "the golden rules" and making the time jump, they break said rules in short order. Still, made for some pretty amusing (i.e. clumsy) backpedaling moments.

Convenient, that mind-wiping handshake of Chromedome's... :|

Speaking of which; probably thinking too much on it, but Chromedome shook Glitch's hand. Wonder if that'll cause issues later on.

Aside from how adorable their casual chat on the phone was, Megatron does pose an interesting question to an uninformed Orion Pax; how better off would Cybertronian society actually be if it were Optimus Prime and the Autobots that had challenged the Senate and the Functionalists. It is a tempting thought, isn't it?

Oh, "season 2".... even when it's not all about Megatron, it's, well, still somehow all about Megatron ;)

That's not a complaint, really it isn't... just an observation, s'all.

inflatable dalek wrote:Fantastic double bluff on Trailbreaker there.
Guess Roberts wants to emphasize to everyone that there is no hope. I appreciated it myself.

Had no idea Rodimus was so torn up over Trailbreaker's death. Willing to muck up time and everything for him. Awfully sweet him.
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Post by Knightdramon »

Red Dave Prime wrote: 4. Speaking of Pax, He thrusts the story about the LL crew being linked to Sentinal far too easy - given that he only knows Whirl as a criminal and Thumbler / domey as possibly a member of the institute and recognises the autobot symbol as a sign of oppression.
Minor correction here----at this point, Pax and his crew have left and are outlaws operating under Zeta against Sentinel.

Given how Whirl told Pax he wants to see the Senate come crumbling down in Shadowplay, and Chromedome only started working at the institute when Zeta took over and "humanized" it [issue 14], those two are just fine. Whirl's "day out" was a tad flimsy though.

On Megatron's front, he hadn't gone all bad yet. This is pre-Megatron Origin [if only just], so at best he's just stopped distributing his manifesto [see issue 34] and is just a disgruntled worker. Pax is essentially an outlaw at this point until Zeta takes over.
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Post by Warcry »

Knightdramon wrote:That being said, it was a nice and full issue. I ain't sure why Tailgate is "allowed" back in time when more able bots could go back---everybody on the team serves a purpose except for him.
They mentioned early on that they would need to have a compatible spark-type to Brainstorm's in order to take part in the time travel, so it's possible that there isn't anyone else. Though considering half of the main cast qualify, I find it hard to believe that "compatibility" is that rare.
Knightdramon wrote:Brainstorm's been set up for something else---I don't think he's out to kill Pax. Especially in the time periods he ends up at, Pax is already too famous and strong, not to mention surrounded by his own X-Men. It's like going after Whirl when he's in the Wreckers.
I wonder now if he's actually doing anything or if it's just a red herring, he's just gone on a crazy jaunt through time to prove that he can like the mad scientist that he is, and Rodimus and co. are the ones who inadvertently cause the new timeline.
Red Dave Prime wrote:Not loving this as much as some of you. Its good... but not really engaging. Quite forget-able to be honest, much as the past bots feel.
Agreed. It's fun but not really substantial. As part of the story arc it's perfectly fine, but as a standalone issue it's a little bit underwhelming considering what it's following up.

That said, I always enjoy our visits with the actually-heroic millions-of-years-ago-Orion, so I won't complain too much.
Red Dave Prime wrote:4. Speaking of Pax, He thrusts the story about the LL crew being linked to Sentinal far too easy - given that he only knows Whirl as a criminal and Thumbler / domey as possibly a member of the institute and recognises the autobot symbol as a sign of oppression.
I got the impression that he might have put together what was going on on his own, and that's why he was suspiciously trusting of them. The fact that Chromedome and Whirl both did a very poor job of their excuse-making was probably enough to at least make him suspicious. Megatron probably didn't help either.
Red Dave Prime wrote:Look, its not a bad issue and there are some really nice ideas going on here - Rodimus saving himself (once I read Nyon, that was an instant link)
...I missed that entirely. Good catch!
zigzagger wrote:I thought it funny that, in typical Team Rodimus fashion, right after establishing "the golden rules" and making the time jump, they break said rules in short order. Still, made for some pretty amusing (i.e. clumsy) backpedaling moments.
I got a good laugh out of that too.

"For god's sake don't kill anyone!"

Two minutes later: "Blow up that orbital platform!"
zigzagger wrote:Speaking of which; probably thinking too much on it, but Chromedome shook Glitch's hand. Wonder if that'll cause issues later on.
Glitch's powers were touch-triggered and immediate, weren't they? If they were going to cause a problem I think they'd have done so right away, so Trailbreaker and the rest wouldn't have been memory-wiped. It seems like they all were, so I guess nothing happened?

Maybe Glitch has been able to figure out how to better control his powers since we last saw him?
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Post by Knightdramon »

Thinking about this all day long. Two things spring to mind.

Re--Roller is Tarn. There's some clever foreshadowing on his abilities here, if this is true.

Roller drinks that spiked C32 stuff...and Rung says it can cause your spark to explode. Tarn's "modulate the timbre of your voice" ability has only happened once, on screen, causing Black Shadow to explode, and he was touching his face. Tarn was playing music at the time and saying how "they say you can use your voice to.." "they say..."

Considering Roller's unease at not having any powers, what if Tarn puts on a show with the music and stuff but what he's actually doing is directly injecting the victim with C32, causing their spark to explode?

Yes, I'm a genius.

Secondly, Perceptor said that Brainstorm used his spark as a means of travelling back, "locking" the machine to his type. But we have at least 3 spark types [Chromedone, Rewind and Whirl share one, Cyclonus and Tailgate another, Rodimus and Rung are unknown]. What if this compatibility stems from the fact that its 2 sparktypes within Brainstorm? His own, and the green spark he harvested. Or, go wild, for 3...he's a headmaster. And his evil head is the 3rd sparktype.

Do remember that he was saying he was forged back in Remain in Light, yet suffered the effects of the killswitch. What if he was actually forged, but his headmaster was not, hence suffering from that? Or vice versa?

I'm a genius yet again.
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Post by inflatable dalek »

In terms of who was chosen, beyond having the right spark type (and presumably compatible doesn't automatically mean the same as Brainstorm's, as no one knows he stole a spare spark if it were down to that Perceptor would have commented on it), they seem to have gone for people they were unlikely to run into in the past.

So, Rodimus (likely not born yet), Whirl (prison), Chromedome (at a super secret secret institute where he likely doesn't get out much), Cyclonus (dead universe) and Tailgate (buried underground) definitely won't be creating a Universe destroying paradox, or at least awkward explanations, by banging into themselves. Presumably the others are the same.
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Post by zigzagger »

Warcry wrote:
Two minutes later: "Blow up that orbital platform!"
Yeah, and they do that based on speculation. :lol:


Other thoughts:

You know, at this stage in the story, its difficult to gauge exactly what Rodimus and co. accomplished during their first time jump. For now it doesn't seem like much since they completely missed Brainstorm.

One "critique" I suppoooose I could make (and honestly it's something I wasn't too bothered by), is that this jaunt to the past didn't advance the story much. Felt more like an excuse to see what Pax and the Outliers were up to after Shadowplay... which, uhh, I really can't call that a complaint. I enjoyed the ride.

I figure either -- through their interference -- history was always meant to play out this way, or that their visit may have made things worse. They weren't exactly being careful, so what I'm hoping is that Rodimus and company's actions during the first time jump have repercussions, that there was a reason for the story to take us to this point in Cybertronian history.

But again, not a huge complaint. I love these "historic" tales.
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Post by inflatable dalek »

One thing I really liked about the phone conversation was how it worked either way- whether Megatron is genuinely reformed, still evil or somewhere in the middle there's a subtext to be found in his words that plays into it.

That's smart writing yo.

Though now I think of it, where's Ravage? I thought he'd agreed to stay on the ship, but I can't see him wandering too far off from the one person aboard who wouldn't want to kill him.
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Post by zigzagger »

inflatable dalek wrote:One thing I really liked about the phone conversation was how it worked either way- whether Megatron is genuinely reformed, still evil or somewhere in the middle there's a subtext to be found in his words that plays into it.
Totally. I liked the ambiguity of that moment and, as you say, lends itself to future interpretation. And it's one of those instances that I'm glad Roberts can't play anything straight. At one moment it's almost heartbreaking, until Megatron makes that comment to Pax about taking on the Senate.

Like, should I be touched or suspicious? Awesome stuff there.

Also totally worth mentioning is Milne's work on that scene, with Megatron's shifting expressions. It's art working to enhance the story. It's subtle, but I dig little details like that. Milne continues to grow.
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Post by inflatable dalek »

Oh, and I may have broken Roberts by pointing out to him on Twitter that Transmat comes from Doctor Who.

I am too interested in what different franchises call their transporters so no one thinks of Star Trek.
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Post by Terome »

Hey! I am back from the desert. There are no comics in the desert. Actually no, there was a Calvin & Hobbes book. It was, of course, excellent.

MTMTE 36: Still great. I'm sold on the predestination theory surrounding Nyon and Tarn and whatnot. I agree with all the praise of the phone call, I thought it was handled wonderfully and goes well with the old saw of any compelling story - all the conflict could have been avoided if everyone involved had sat down for a nice chat. Seeing Megatron laugh is a first too, I believe.

I really dig Roberts' Orion Pax - this utterly unflappable superhero cop who latches onto these shady mentors and doesn't quite seem to grasp the scale of the problem before him. You can see why people are so loyal to him, even now when he's a shell of his former self. There's the interesting implication that the Matrix was a real wrong step in his personal development.

Speaking of which, there's a lot we still don't know about Skids and his whole deal.
Though now I think of it, where's Ravage? I thought he'd agreed to stay on the ship, but I can't see him wandering too far off from the one person aboard who wouldn't want to kill him.
Of all the people who I want to get focus who aren't, I can forgive Ravage for not being centre stage, or visible at all, because hiding is what he's good at.

What will become of Rewind keeping the alternate timeline to himself?

And here's something - we've got a good body of evidence that Trailbreaker's hands are a big part of his forcefield ability. We've also got reason to believe that nobody else can do the forcefield thing. Megatron was looking very meaningfully at Trailbreaker's hands when Rodimus found him in the morgue. I thought he was mourning but maybe he's hatching a plan?

If Megatron was secretly evil though, I do think he would do everything in his power to seize upon this time travel opportunity. That's not the sort of thing that supervillians pass on.
One "critique" I suppoooose I could make (and honestly it's something I wasn't too bothered by), is that this jaunt to the past didn't advance the story much. Felt more like an excuse to see what Pax and the Outliers were up to after Shadowplay... which, uhh, I really can't call that a complaint. I enjoyed the ride.
Agreed on both points! I'm not so keen on plot as a rule but this one felt very luxurious in letting the characters talk to each other. I'm also getting an inkling now of what that pre-season teaser campaign that put Trailbreaker as 'The Catalyst' was getting at...
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Post by Auntie Slag »

Rodimus' slapstick banter with Megatron was nicely dampened by his concern for Trailbreaker/Cutter. Now I'm interested in why Rodimus should be so concerned! Trailbreaker was the one character who didn't initially earn a Rodimus star, and he'd never shown any particular favouritism or familiarity toward him previously.

The patterns of damage to Roller's face nicely match up with Tarn's buggered left-eye, though it could still be a red herring. I really liked a comment on Transfans about how much Roller's head shape resembles the Autobot insignia (and what that means for a guy who has potentially turned from face to heel).

Since readers speculation over whether Roller is Tarn (and this has been going on since Shadowplay two years ago), it'd be really cool if all the characters in the book are perfectly aware of who Tarn is, from Rodimus to Cosmos to Prowl; they all know who Tarn is and that doesn't make any difference, but its one in the eye for Pax ever since he had to take on the mantle of Prime. Its only the readers who question it.

Either that or... Chromedome has always known! Chromedome is such a little tinker, I can't help thinking he's almost singlehandedly responsible for all the troubles that have befallen the Lost Light crew.

And the Pax/Megatron phone call across time was phenomenal!

[Edit] Just going back to something from a few issues ago where Megatron and co. found Rewind hiding in Magnus' body cavity; no-one gets away from the DJD. Rewind says he ran away, but I find it very hard to believe this little guy could escape from hardened killers. Tarn must've allowed it.
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Post by Unicron »

Auntie Slag wrote:Since readers speculation over whether Roller is Tarn (and this has been going on since Shadowplay two years ago), it'd be really cool if all the characters in the book are perfectly aware of who Tarn is, from Rodimus to Cosmos to Prowl; they all know who Tarn is and that doesn't make any difference, but its one in the eye for Pax ever since he had to take on the mantle of Prime. Its only the readers who question it.
Basically a re-hash of the Senator Shockwave reveal then. Everyone in story already knew who the Senator was, the bit at the end of Shadowplay that finally named him was for our benefit
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Post by Auntie Slag »

You’re right, it wouldn’t make much sense to repeat things. Perhaps the most meaningful thing is if it makes an impact to the other characters. If Tarn were Roller, it would only have a psychological gut punch to Pax or Ratchet, and the latter is off with Drift in his short story. Maybe if Chromedome is involved in Tarn’s origins, or he and Brainstorm (and possibly Highbrow, I’m always waiting for Highbrow to have more of a part in the story, probably because of his starring role in the UK ‘Worlds Apart’ story from the UK Marvel G1 comics).

On another note, Whirl was carrying around a very interesting gun from Brainstorms stash!

I feel like I'm starting to lose a lot of the plot points and clues from previous issues. The things that many people are remembering are starting to get all jumbled for me, and this probably manifests in making pointless comments like wondering why Highbrow isn't around more. This issue they reveal that Glitch's real name is Damus, I don't know if there's any relevance for that yet, and then Rung is part of the away team, but I don't know if his spark type was ever mentioned?

I've tended not to re-read everything from Remain in Light onwards as much as the earlier issues. Maybe because in these stories I don't see as much of certain characters or scenes as I'd like e.g. Megatron & Rung, Roller and time spent on those I'm not fussed about, like Riptide.
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Post by Unicron »

Auntie Slag wrote:You’re right, it wouldn’t make much sense to repeat things. Perhaps the most meaningful thing is if it makes an impact to the other characters. If Tarn were Roller, it would only have a psychological gut punch to Pax or Ratchet, and the latter is off with Drift in his short story. Maybe if Chromedome is involved in Tarn’s origins, or he and Brainstorm (and possibly Highbrow, I’m always waiting for Highbrow to have more of a part in the story, probably because of his starring role in the UK ‘Worlds Apart’ story from the UK Marvel G1 comics).
I'm sure it would make a pretty good impact on the 'away team', learning they're (at least partly) responsible for the creation of a very twisted and fanatical murderer.
On another note, Whirl was carrying around a very interesting gun from Brainstorms stash!
Can I just note how deeply stupid it is for Whirl, or anyone, to have brought some of Brainstorm's weaponry back in time with them? I mean, if you were responsible for creating some... unusual and powerful weaponry and you were plotting a betrayal, one would expect you'd have some manner of countermeasures. An off switch, some kind of shielding from their effect, what have you. Hell, booby trap them so they incapacitate the user if they attempt to shoot Brainy.
I feel like I'm starting to lose a lot of the plot points and clues from previous issues. The things that many people are remembering are starting to get all jumbled for me, and this probably manifests in making pointless comments like wondering why Highbrow isn't around more. This issue they reveal that Glitch's real name is Damus, I don't know if there's any relevance for that yet, and then Rung is part of the away team, but I don't know if his spark type was ever mentioned?
I think Highbrow is a good one to wonder about. Pretty sure he's on the bridge a lot, and he was referenced as being at the New Institute with Chromedome and Brainstorm, and there's the whole Malware Brigade thing. I'm hoping he gets a little more spotlight soon because of that.

Glitch's name being Damus has no meaning yet, and it may never. I'm thinking the name reveal was just so fans don't wildly speculate he's someone known to us. That or so we know who it is if the away team runs into him further in the past.
Rung, we don't know anything about his spark type, beyond him being a probable point-one-percenter. But it has to be noted that the people who can make the time jump are those with a compatible type, not the same. Could also be that Rung is the only one who can activate the case and the others are his passengers. Odds are it'll be cleared up later.
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