What's the point in the Lost Light having a crew of 200 and whatever?

[Auntie Slag]

In terms of the characters' development, I think Cyclonus is doing alright proving himself a trustworthy character. That was more or less Rodimus' requirement in order to stay on The Lost Light.

I think Whirl is a dick, and he's happy being so with no intention of changing. He's more or less a Dinobot (Slag or Snarl) in his attitude, and in their absence he provides the muscle and the mouth. If Whirl is going to have any lasting development, maybe it will come when he meets up with Springer or Roadbuster? Although there's previous evidence of a decent side; suggesting the solution for Tailgate's illness, and donating innermost energon to Rewind (even though it was he who nearly had Rewind killed).

Megatron has been compelling and Tailgate seems to have evolved into Swerve but with less of the lip and more actual confidence. I found Brainstorm at his most intriguing at Rewind's wake, I thought he was fantastically well written there, taking his friends feelings into account without dragging it out.

I really feel like Magnus needs to show his strength. For half of MTMTE he's hardly done anything positive; getting stabbed by Overlord, smacked by Tyrest, head crushed by a Legislator and his alternative self shot through by the DJD. I'd feel more confident having Skids, Cyclonus or even Whirl behind me. Roberts needs to man Magnus up a bit.

First Aid is interesting, but he keeps getting sidelined, even with Ratchet off gallivanting with Drift!

If there's one thing I want to nitpick about, its that Whirl seemingly has the dexterity of a Surgeon... I'm referring to his spark transplant on Megatron in issue 38. It goes someway to nullifying his anger at the Functionists/Senate if he can perform what I assume is a complex procedure with his massive claw hands!

Oh, and he rips apart The Heavies in the past pre-Megatron's decree. Fair enough he got the jump on them, but it gives the impression he is strong to rip through seemingly thick armour with his bare claws.

And I can't help but love his expressions.

[Red Dave Prime]

The pacing thing isn't exclusive to Transformers. Sometime around the turn of the century, the enitre comics industry went for this 'decompressed' storytelling where nothing happens for hundreds of pages. We seem to be getting away from that now, which is a relief.

Interestingly, one of the reasons I've found comics to be such a quick read is the phasing out of all those 'description boxes' and thought bubbles. I think that's why, very occasionally, some artists can let a story down. Previously where the art may have been unclear, a handy box / bubble would have signposted whats going on.

Funnily enough, I've been re-reading a few old x-men comics such as days of future past etc. Its amazing how much inner monologues and thought bubbles are going on - almost like the writer is afraid the reader wont grasp whats going on. Despite that, it does work well. I never warmed to the monologues in RiD, found them a bit too vague to be informative and therefore more intrusive than anything else, but I would like to see it tried a bit more often.

[Skyquake87]

I think in the days when comics were a lot more disposable and there wasn't the same kind of trade paperback program we have now, these sort of recap things made a lot more sense. Some writers handled it better than others, though. I'm currently re-reading the DeFalco / Ryan run on Fantastic Four, and I love how they work that old school format- its so busy with thought bubbles and whatnot - but none of it feels repetitive or heavy going.

[Dead Man Wade]

Name two properties of IDW's that weren't devised by someone else. Now try for one people have heard of. They're the House of Other People's Ideas.

Pardon me for replying to something said a page and a half ago, but...

Locke & Key, of the top of my head? As for 30 Days of Night, surely the fact that a Hollywood movie was made and released counts for something? Producers rarely risk their time and money on a property they don't think will carry some name recognition. I mean, 30 Days of Night's premise is hardly so innovative that they had to pay for the rights, right? They could have just made their own substandard vampire movie and called it a day.

[inflatable dalek]

That really would have been the way to go, I agree. I think the problem is that they simply didn't know that Megatron was going to switch sides when Barber started to write that RiD arc. For all the talk about "oh, we've wanted to do this for ages!" it really does reek of a marketing decision designed to reel in new readers who are intrigued by the concept (or baffled enough to want to see if it'll be a disaster). Barber and Roberts have done the best they could with it, I think, but just going by what's on the page it doesn't seem like it was an idea they'd been pondering for very long before Dark Cybertron.

The odd thing is, it seems to be entirely IDW's own idea (though I can't recall if Barber or Roberts came up with it), Hasbro have just run with it. You think they'd have thought through the implications a bit more. Unless it was a white heat of the moment "Maybe Uhura should dance naked with a fan" style moment that was quickly regretted but too late as the Powers That Be had loved it.

Oh, right, that. The colouring on that issue confused me into thinking it was Smokey at first too.

It's odd, yet rather fun, that Bluestreak's entire purpose has been to set up everyone being exposed to Earth films so that them having seen Back to the Future wouldn't seem so unlikely.

When, exactly? Admittedly he didn't do anything that would count as a war crime between casually murdering an alien race's leader and the end of Remain in Light, but that's mainly because of lack of opportunity. His behavior and attitude showed no real changes, though.

He definately worked more as a team player as it went on, by Remain in Light he's working extremely well with a guy he thinks wants to kill him. That's progress! Even the other robot leader killing thing is him thinking he's helping a race of "Nice" robots, and all the other Autobots present are clearly fine with him doing it.

So his character development consists of being shocked into doing crazy unpredictable things? That doesn't sound any different from season 1 Whirl.

Hey, unpredictable? Certainly not, he was put into a place mentally where him being the only one to actually want to stop the new timeline (the other Autobots at least seem to be considering Rewind's "The Universe is better off without us" stance) made perfect consistent sense.

But he didn't stop trying to be a hero, because at the first opportunity he attacked Tyrest to try and die as one. And then the next time he had the chance, he pulled a gun on Megatron, neatly showing that he's learned nothing and doesn't think through the consequences of his actions or who might be hurt by them, even though his "bomb disposal" lie nearly killed Rewind.

Well, firstly Tailgate had his epiphany after Tyrest when talking to Cyclonus. Secondly, people started treating him as a hero almost straight away after he woke. Effectively he's made a life choice and events are conspiring to put his ego to the test. I mean, you could have had time in-between of him enjoying the simple things (though that'd be mildly undramatic), but it's gone from point A to B on his development at a fair clip.

Things that haven't actually happened yet (re: Getaway) don't count, I'm afraid.

Well, it's not happened past tense but it is happening now, and is clearly having an effect on Tailgate (if Getaway hadn't buttered him up so much would he have pulled the gun on Megatron?).

Then Remain in Light and Dark Cybertron happened and he seemed to be doing that...but when season two started, there he was in his room again pondering his needles like the intervening six months or so of story hadn't happened at all. And then Rewind came back, and now he's back to casually mindwiping innocents while clearly keeping secrets from his significant other...or basically the exact same spot he was in at the start of the series. Which seems to be exactly what happens in most comics whenever a main character seems to be venturing too far away from the characterization that made them popular to start with.

He regressed at the start of season 2 because he was literally being haunted by the ghost of his lover.

Where's the implication he's keeping secrets from Newind?

I'll give you Ratchet, though.

*Doths cloth cap* Thank'ye kindly 'guv.

has anyone actually read the Drift mini-series to find out how badly Ratchet gets mangled there?

[inflatable dalek]

A double post as there's yet another James Roberts podcast interview, one that has some relevance to this thread as he winds up touching on some of the things we've been discussing, including Rodimus' seeming character regression; the planning out of plots and even the use of TV terms to describe comics:

[zigzagger]

including Rodimus' seeming character regression

Huh. Must've missed that part (had it playing in the background while I was getting ready). Curious to hear what he has to say about this particular issue, as it's something of a quibble of mine. Where is it?

[Terome]

He's onto us!

[inflatable dalek]

Huh. Must've missed that part (had it playing in the background while I was getting ready). Curious to hear what he has to say about this particular issue, as it's something of a quibble of mine. Where is it?

I think it's near the end (I listened to the download audio version)... The jist was that Rodimus had been legitimate in wanting to rehabilitate himself; but having Megatron forced upon him had been a massive slap in the face; especially as a fair few members of his command crew get on better with Megatron without even trying (a key idea being that Magnus would never acknowledge it; even to himself; but he works better with Megatron than Rodimus).

Whether that idea works or not is up to the reader (and Roberts conveys it better than I). It's also interesting for the acknowledgement that RID was too far along with CEEEEERRRAAAZZZZYYYY Megatron when the decision to make him an Autobot was finalised; meaning there was some sever whiplash in Dark Cybertron.

It is presumably coincidence; but as Terome says a lot of it does feel as if Roberts is fighting back against this thread. If you assume that, his confusing of "Episodes" and "Stories"* when it comes to Sapphire and Steel can be read as a deliberate attempt to send Cliffy mad.




*Officially "Assignments" now. But I suspect Cliffy is a man who still calls them "Adventures" as twas the case on the videos back in the dark ages.

[zigzagger]

I think it's near the end (I listened to the download audio version)

Ah ha. Found it

The jist was that Rodimus had been legitimate in wanting to rehabilitate himself; but having Megatron forced upon him had been a massive slap in the face; especially as a fair few members of his command crew get on better with Megatron without even trying (a key idea being that Magnus would never acknowledge it; even to himself; but he works better with Megatron than Rodimus).

Whether that idea works or not is up to the reader (and Roberts conveys it better than I).

More or less related; going back to your earlier point about how some folks were welcoming the newer faces while at the same time missing the regulars, for me a lot of it was based on my own (perhaps unrealistic) expectations of where Roberts was going with Rodimus. Have no qualms about the newer faces taking the spotlight while Cyclonus, Ratchet and Chromedome sat out an adventure or two. But I really wanted to see some progress in Rodimus' redemption arc after the seeds were planted in Remain in Light. We have not quite seen it realized. Not to my satisfaction, anyway. I was looking forward to it.

Right now, it kinda reads like Rodimus' character arc was lost in the shuffle in favor of Megatron-centric stories. Which, according to the interview, is entirely the point. Don't get me wrong, the latter has seen some amazing growth under Roberts, so it gets a reluctant pass from me, but all the same, I'm going to have to side with Cliffy (I think it was him) on this one as say I would prefer to see to this actually acknowledged on page at some point, rather than through statements made outside of the fiction by the author. Otherwise, for me, it's a case of 'it didn't happen' regardless of Roberts' intent (and mind you, I do have a lot a faith in him).

I do, however, like the idea of Magnus being conflicted about his attitude towards Megatron.

[Terome]

Good interview. A bit more technical and specific than usual. Roberts sure is diligent with attending to these podcasts and not repeating himself too badly.

Agreement all around that maybe some of this subtext and innuendo flying around could be solidified on the page, seeing as ambiguity is so often employed as a tool to enrich the plot.

I think the unlikely friendship between Ultra Magnus and Megatron is one of the best things to come out of this whole to-do. I'd like to see a road trip with the two of them.

Interesting to hear that EVIL MEGATRON was written before the SORT OF CONTRITE MEGATRON was on the cards. It certainly reads that way. Perils of the franchise!

[inflatable dalek]

I'm going to have to side with Cliffy (I think it was him) on this one as say I would prefer to see to this actually acknowledged on page at some point, rather than through statements made outside of the fiction by the author. Otherwise, for me, it's a case of 'it didn't happen' regardless of Roberts' intent (and mind you, I do have a lot a faith in him).

The main thing I'm not sold on is the idea one of them needs to be slightly incompetent for the stories to work, they shouldn't not be finding the Knights because Rodimus is a bit shit.

I do, however, like the idea of Magnus being conflicted about his attitude towards Megatron.

It also nicely works with the idea from way back when that Magnus was supposed to be above factions as the Duly Appointed Enforcer of the Tyrest Accord, he's already had practice at thinking outside the Autobot box.

I think the unlikely friendship between Ultra Magnus and Megatron is one of the best things to come out of this whole to-do. I'd like to see a road trip with the two of them.

I liked the quiet unstated emphasis of Magnus' strength when he was easily able to hold Megatron back when he was having his panic attack as well.

[Terome]

It also nicely works with the idea from way back when that Magnus was supposed to be above factions as the Duly Appointed Enforcer of the Tyrest Accord, he's already had practice at thinking outside the Autobot box.

I'd forgotten that! It's not exactly independent when your impartial enforcer is sitting in on Autobot High Command detentes, is it?

Maybe some flashbacks of past MagsMegs interaction during the war would be nice.

I liked the quiet unstated emphasis of Magnus' strength when he was easily able to hold Megatron back when he was having his panic attack as well.

Yeah, that was a great bit. And does give some weight to Prime's barmy decision to put Megatron on the Lost Light - that's where Ultra Magnus can best keep an eye on him.

[Auntie Slag]

He's only easily able to hold him back because of the special fuel concoction that's severely weakened Megatron. At full power I'm sure it'd be a different story.

[inflatable dalek]

I'd forgotten that! It's not exactly independent when your impartial enforcer is sitting in on Autobot High Command detentes, is it?

It was an idea that never really worked because it never really made sense that the Autobots and Decepticons would agree on a common list of war crimes (they'd likely both want Swindle but the Cons wouldn't give a toss about him messing with the development of a primitive society, it's just the going AWOL and/or the stealing of weapons), nor that there wouldn't be an obvious tactical advantage in the Autobots offering Decepticon fugitives sanctuary in exchange for information, as indeed turns out to be the case in that first Spotlight.
[/QUOTE]

He's only easily able to hold him back because of the special fuel concoction that's severely weakened Megatron. At full power I'm sure it'd be a different story.

True, but Magnus still leaves finger indents on his arm. Hardcore yo.

[Death's Head]

It was an idea that never really worked because it never really made sense that the Autobots and Decepticons would agree on a common list of war crimes (they'd likely both want Swindle but the Cons wouldn't give a toss about him messing with the development of a primitive society, it's just the going AWOL and/or the stealing of weapons), nor that there wouldn't be an obvious tactical advantage in the Autobots offering Decepticon fugitives sanctuary in exchange for information, as indeed turns out to be the case in that first Spotlight.

Presumably it's all just a bit of show for the galactic council - something to show the community that they aren't just conducting a mindless, psychotic war, for they are in fact gentlemen robots, with a true code of conduct.

[inflatable dalek]

It's no wonder Tyrest turned out to be a loon.

The latest issue managed 7 on the UK Comixology charts and 11 on the American. Not to suggest sales=quality, that's still insanely impressive. And sure, it's a cult success, but comics is a medium where everything is a cult success (and it can't just be the same people buying the physical copies double dipping or the digital wouldn't be so much higher and growing), even something like The Walking Dead is only selling in figures that are dwarfed millions of times over by the the numbers watching the series. It's all niche.

[inflatable dalek]

Gratuitous bump because I smiled and was reminded of this thread and the dislike some folks had for the use of TV terms to describe a comic when reading Grimgrams in issue 167 of the UK comic where Grimlock/Furman describes the comic as having "Episodes". Fetch the burning torches!

That is almost, but not quite, entirely not worth bumping things for but it entertained me and that's the important thing.

[Skyquake87]

Damn you Furman!!!! You invoke my wrath!!!

ISSUES not EPISODES!!!!*

Yeah, I'm shouting at the past. What are you going to do about it? :P





*this is like a really rubbish RIRFIB debate

[inflatable dalek]

Sometimes, he even does pre-credits sequences!