Dark of the Moon Feedback and Reviews: Spoilers Ahoy.

horizon · Post by **horizon** » Sat Aug 06, 2011 5:55 am

Heya,

saw the movie month ago. Bothered to visit the forum only now.

The third movie is good and I like it a lot.

I do not understand how people think the first 30-45 minutes are bad because I think there is finally a plot being build and told. Yeah, I like it.
The whacky humour thing is just Bay being Bay and it could cut down on some sillyness on the whole level.

The highway scenel, followed by the Sideswipe/Ironhide combo is the best moment of the movie I think.
The final battle(s) are pretty good as well except Optimus hung around to long in the cables to be believable.
The scenes also suffered from editing (the autobots being captured). Hoping on a director's cut?

Optimus taking down Megatron like that. Harsh, but he saw an oppurtunity to end it. And peace on earth was in his grap at that moment. So I can understand it. But it would be more believable if Megatron continued his attack on Optimus because Optimus was in a bad shape as well.
Ah well, it worked out.

The scenes where all autobots are attacking Sentinel has really cool things in it.

Bumblebee also delivered again this movie and I was like: omg omg don't shoot bumblebee at that point.... lol

In the end I think the movie is really good. On par with the first one. Which brings me to this: In the first movie it was daft to see that the citizens in the end battle only started to scream if Transformers arrived in there street, ignoring explosions around the corner. The third movie got this a lot better.

End verdict for now:
Transformers movie one : 9/10
Transformers Revenge of the Fallen : 6/10 (deduct 1 point if you skip the first 10 minutes).
Transformers Dark of the Moon : 9/10

Transformers '86 cartoon movie : 2/10 (I am a comic fan of the '80's, appreciate the cartoons but I hate this movie so much. lol).

Vin Ghostal · Post by **Vin Ghostal** » Tue Aug 09, 2011 11:26 am

I probably just overlooked something when watching the movie, but I can't remember: when Sentinel opens the space bridge, WHERE do all those Decepticons come from? Are they coming from the moon, Cybertron, or somewhere else?

Cliffjumper · Post by **Cliffjumper** » Tue Aug 09, 2011 3:08 pm

From the moon - they seem to be buried under the surface; the inference is they've been dormant since the removal of the other Pillars. I've yet to spot any movement of any kind on Cybertron.

Regarding the big fight scene with Sentinel, when I first watched it I kept wanting to yell at the screen "DON'T LET HIM TOUCH YOU!!!" because I thought he'd Cosmic Rust everyone. I kept expecting a disintegrating Ratchet to lurch into a building or something. Loved the little bit of Bumblebee ducking down into Camaro mode right in the middle of the melee - some of the attention to detail in the fight scenes and general CG work is amazing.

ΩΩΩ · Post by **ΩΩΩ** » Tue Aug 09, 2011 5:41 pm

I wish I had as many awesome plans going on as Megatron.

And had as little to do.

Cliffjumper · Post by **Cliffjumper** » Fri Aug 12, 2011 7:20 pm

Random belated question: where the Hell is Sentinel for most of the highway chase? We get a shot of him fairly early on, I think it's just after the first Dread transforms; then where does he go? There's no way he's keeping comfortably ahead of three sportscars going full-pelt even with the Autobots having their little show-off moments.

Is he in the same place that Sideswipe and Dino are when he goes mental at NEST a few minutes later?

And how fast are those Dreads running anyway?

ΩΩΩ · Post by **ΩΩΩ** » Fri Aug 12, 2011 7:27 pm

I didn't even register that the red firetruck was Sentinel until they got back to NEST. I had no idea where they were going, or why they were suddenly being attacked by Decepticons.

In retrospect, once you know what's going on, I've still no idea what was happening there. Sentinel lets them collect him to safeguard him, gets halfway back before the Dreads turn up and start picking off the Autobots, then the moment they're all dead he says "oh, by the way I'm evil now and want my pillars".

When it would have surely made more sense for the Dreads to remain incognito until they got to NEST, so he had some kind of backup. Meh. Who needs logic when you have exciting chase sequences and explosions.

And I mean that.

Cliffjumper · Post by **Cliffjumper** » Fri Aug 12, 2011 7:41 pm

Yeh, it's helped by adrenhaline and drama, but I really don't see why Sentinel basically puts NEST on red alert. If he'd got the Decepticons to attack somewhere else so the Autobots were all out, he could have raided the Pillars with zero opposition. I know it all works out for him anyway, but it just seems needless.

Ditto the Dreads only work if you think they're trying to capture Sentinel, i.e. first time around before you know he's a traitor. Sam and the Autobots are already getting him inside NEST HQ for the old Trojan Horse gambit before the Dreads show up; all it really acheives is to alert NEST five minutes earlier and wipe out three Decepticons...

Still, flipping Mech-Tech cars, rodeo Ferraris and Mexican stand-offs are the reason I love this film.

Post by **Blackjack** » Sat Aug 13, 2011 4:47 am

I've always thought that the Dreads lulled the Autobots to a sense that Sentinel is still on their side and stuff. Plus, the threat of Decepticons caused NEST to scramble and the Autobots were quite disoriented, weren't they? The Dreads caused Dino to drive off elsewhere, I dunno, and they stabbed Ironhide in the chest so Sentinel can cosmic rust shoot him.

Cliffjumper · Post by **Cliffjumper** » Sat Aug 13, 2011 12:08 pm

Problem with that is I don't think it crossed the Autobots' minds for a second that Sentinel wasn't on their side, and it didn't really need reinforcing. The Autobots and NEST handled the Dreds pretty well and seem on top of things up to the point where Sentinel starts killing people, so I don't think they were particularly disorientated by the Decepticons.

Mind, one explanantion is that maybe they were a cue of some sort - Megatron's way of saying "we're ready, go for it" to Sentinel without overtly contacting him. I mean, one the one hand if it all goes the Dreads' way, fine, they "capture" Sentinel and the Autobots are left in the dark for that bit longer, if not, they loose three of many footsoldiers and Sentinel can handle things.

I don't think Ironhide being forewarned would have helped him that much against Sentinel, sadly. Plus, to be fair, Sentinel says he made a deal with Megatron and Ironhide completely fails to react...

Post by **Blackjack** » Sun Aug 14, 2011 10:24 am

Hmm, never thought about the cue thing, and it's so far the most plausible explanation. Besides, evidently to Megatron the Dreads are disposable anyway.

I've always seen it as a trick to fool the audience, you know. To lull the audience into a sense that Sentinel was still a good guy. I know I was fooled...

Cliffjumper · Post by **Cliffjumper** » Sun Aug 14, 2011 4:41 pm

Oh yeh, and I don't think there was any intent beyond that. In that respect, it's a lot like the "no prisoners" scene - someone's got a clear idea of a scene to make the audience feel a certain way, but they haven't done the necessary logic work to think through how this situation's going to stand up on second viewing when the audience knows Sentinel's a traitor/Bumblebee's going to make it and is thinking about the mechanics of the story a little more.

Regarding a director's cut, I don't think they'll have filmed and cut a lot of Transformers-featuring stuff, like the Autobots being captured or much of the Twins (disclaimer: in robot mode, anyway - it wouldn't surprise me if the Spark props were included in a few "cars bombing along" montages, aside from the glimpse in the hangar).

From what I gather, even in this day and age and even with a huge budget, there's still a certain limit on just how much top-quality CGI is possible, meaning they don't render a lot that they aren't fairly certain they're going to use - it's not like filming a couple of scenes with Lennox and Mearing talking or something. And I don't think spectacular, expensive CGI robot footage would be first on the chopping block anyway. Correct me if I'm wrong, but no finished unused TF footage has emerged from the first two yet, has it? The closest is the RotF IMAX cut.

No, I think the Autobot capture scene isn't seen (ho-ho) simply because everyone involved thought we'd take it on faith from the dialogue, plus I think if you were to film a scene where five Autobots were captured unharmed it'd look pretty incongrous compared to the violent nature of every other fight in the three films.

Ditto the Twins IMHO - they were probably cut out of the film long before the serious CGI work began. Even if they had did what they do in the adaptation (just turn up at NEST HQ in time for Sentinel to blast them both) it would almost certainly mean reshooting the physical explosions in that scene; if it was filmed it would have stayed in because there's really no reason to cut something like that if you get as far as creating it.

Post by **Blackjack** » Mon Aug 15, 2011 9:34 am

What Cliffy said is true. Making CG robots aren't cheap, and according to Bay they don't randomly make the finalized CG robots until they are very sure the scene is going to be used. Draft scenes are done in the primitive CG way (prelims or something) that are usually included in the second disc of the DVD.

I don't think that the scenes with the Twins are actually shot per se, it would just be too expensive. By 'cut' I think it means that the Twins' scenes are cut before they do all the on screen explosions and stuff.

And if the capture scene are actually filmed and/or scripted, it would end up in stuff like the novelisation, where all discarded scenes do end up.

Weren't the scenes in the IMAX cut of ROTF just like additional panning shots for Devastator and Grindor, plus a few seconds worth of action in the Forest Fight prior to the Optimus face-kick?

Cliffjumper · Post by **Cliffjumper** » Mon Aug 15, 2011 3:28 pm

Yeh, it was more a case of 'trimming' scenes in the 'standard' version than shooting extra material for the IMAX version - I only really mentioned it for the sake of covering all bases. There could be a few more trims somewhere, actually - just seconds cut from the edges of scenes for timing/rhythm reasons. Personally I felt in the forest scene at least the IMAX stuff actually mucked with the timing; I swear the score loops at one point...

From what I can gather the Twins would have had all-new models to go with the Spark alt modes; there's no way they got as far as creating the CGI for that and then just chopped the scene.

Post by **inflatable dalek** » Mon Aug 15, 2011 5:05 pm

Yeah, I'll talk about this more when I start the Auto Assembly news thread but Mark Ryan confirmed during the Skype chat that the films were fully edited before the proper CGI work started (I presume they just used Anamatics at that stage?). The only way you'd have anything cut after that is if they just can't get the effects to work properly or if it really, really goes down badly with preview audiences.

Though of course, with the films having being gonzo successful, if they ever did decide to do an extended version of the third one to milk even more cash James Cameron style bring Bay's original vision to the screen, I suspect Paramount wouldn't have a problem with coughing up the extra cash to do the new effects and bring in whatever voice actors they needed.

Post by **Clay** » Sat Aug 20, 2011 1:17 pm

Why does Sentinel Prime always stand around holding his sword and shield? Does he think it makes him look tough? Does he think it makes him look cool? Who does he think is, anyway? Standing around like that. I mean... really.

Post by **inflatable dalek** » Sat Aug 20, 2011 1:22 pm

It's like he's a crazy mo-fo or something.

As far as names go, I don't think anyone would have been bothered by Que being called Wheeljack considering he's the Autobot's wacky mad inventor (who dies in his first film appearance as well no less). Surely people aren't so nit picky they'd demand exactly the same sort of voice as in the cartoon before they'd be happy?

Ah.

Thunderwave · Post by **Thunderwave** » Sun Aug 21, 2011 5:56 pm

inflatable dalek wrote: As far as names go, I don't think anyone would have been bothered by Que being called Wheeljack considering he's the Autobot's wacky mad inventor (who dies in his first film appearance as well no less).

It's not the voice that bothered me. Wheeljack was the crazy inventor, but he never seemed scatter brained to me. He always had an idea, always had to keep his lab away from anything important, but he always moved with a cause and direction. Que seemed like he was all over the place in a bad way, like he had trouble focusing on anything for too long.

I just had a thought though about Sentinel Prime and his gun of awesome. Maybe the reason you never see him use it after he murders Ironhide is a simple one. Maybe he doesn't have any ammo left. They found him post battle in stasis lock and all the rest goes down shortly after he wakes up, so it's feasible he didn't have time to make more ammo for his weapon. Also it makes sense for him to shot Ironhide with the last of it, Ironhide has the biggest guns on the Autobot side and the best chance of wrecking things. Sentinel obviously thinks he can handle Optimus (and does rather handily) so the next obvious target is Ironhide.

Also, ever been told something so out of whack with how you think/assume things work and it takes your brain a moment to catch up with what was said? Yea, safe to assume that's what happened to Ironhide.

Cliffjumper · Post by **Cliffjumper** » Sun Aug 21, 2011 6:50 pm

I dunno, he's just paying zero attention to anything - just staring off into middle-space and not even listening - he's not even particularly bodyguarding, despite Lennox having just ordered him to get Sentinel inside. I think what makes it look really stupid is that Sam and Lennox both stop and listen to Sentinel with "Ohhhhhh fuuuuck" looks for a couple of seconds; if they twig something's up (and Sideswipe and Dino have time to shove their hands into their astropockets and stroll out of the complex, whistling nonchantly - was I the only one who, on first viewing, thought the silver car blown out of the complex was Sideswipe?) how come Ironhide's three beats behind like it's 1984?

There're plenty of rational explanations, but they all tend to make him look like a bit of a fool - the pacing's just a second or two off. It probably would have been equally dramatic for him to get the first shot off Ironhide (which seems to be pretty much a mortal wound anyway) and do the speech then before finishing him off.

Cliffjumper · Post by **Cliffjumper** » Tue Sep 13, 2011 6:51 pm

Thinking about Megatron's weakness in DotM, a thought comes to mind...

In the first film, he's overloaded by the Allspark more than anything, but does take some damage from the Rangers and F-22s on the way, after whiping Optimus until he gets swamped.

In RotF, he's revived by the Allspark, but seems very much diminished - Optimus handles him, Starscream and Grindor with ease (he kills Optimus because Optimus isn't paying attention, not because he wins a fight), and in Egypt swats him aside. His triumphs in the film, stabbing a distracted Optimus aside, aren't great - menacing Sam and retreating from NEST troopers being about the highlights; he largely keeps out of the way for a lot of the film. Along the way he's shot a fair few times, hit with a tree and gets a lump pulled out of his leg, on top of being squashed at the bottom of the Laurentian Abyss for a couple of years.

Come DotM and he's a shambling, decaying mess, keeping out of things more than ever, and seemingly rendered half-dead after a bit of a shake from Sentinel. Basically mercy-killed by Optimus in a fight that made Megatron's battle with Jazz look like Scorponok v Shockwave.

But when you think about it he's already on the decline badly in RotF, so how about the idea that his body is still carrying all the injuries from his various scrapes. The fragment seemed to jolt him back to life and reverse the overload from the cube, rather than repair him. I suppose an analogy would be if someone with broken legs was to die on the operating table from a heart-attack - a defibrilator could revive them, but they'd still have broken legs. Optimus' resurrection seems to restore him, but was via the Matrix; Jetfire was revived with a cube fragment and was still worn out.

Summerhayes · Post by **Summerhayes** » Mon Sep 19, 2011 9:02 am

I never got the impression he was weaker in ROTF (though his wounds definately carry over to DOTM) just that Optimus was able to cut loose more than he was at first in Mission City. By DOTM, he might be in a city again but he's so pissed he just stops caring.