Transformers: Chaos Theory / Vol. 5 TPB

[Red Dave Prime]

The best issue so far in whats been an overall upswing in quality in the ongoing. Certainly engrossing to read and also makes you want to see where this is going. Kudos also to the panel which is a collage of sorts of all the past plotlines - Milne did a great job with that one. All in all, the only fault I had was with that last page which had a rushed feel that milne has generally avoided in his last few issues (and credit to him, his art these last few months has been leagues ahead of his previous stuff)

Also, am I missing something with the last few panels? Megatron just throws the (i)pad into a random sign, yes? or is there some greater significance that I'm missing?

P.s. - And if IDW wanted to do a quick cash-in, I reckon a 3-4 parter on one of the battles megs and prime discuss could be fun on a sheer action level - particularly the first one

[zigzagger]

Also, am I missing something with the last few panels? Megatron just throws the (i)pad into a random sign, yes? or is there some greater significance that I'm missing?

The shattered screen resembles the Decepticon symbol.

[Red Dave Prime]

Christ, how did i miss that?

Must... try... harder!

[Cliffjumper]

We've seen this confrontation before in many different guises

It really reminded me of the TMUK strip where Prime and Megatron meet in that special orb space station and have a similar conversation.

But this isn't a bad thing. Best TF comic I've read since... well, I wish Wreckers wasn't so recent so that could carry some weight, but y'know. Loved the way the archetypes carry enough that it doesn't matter if you consider the first 21 issues to be a complete waste of disk space and didn't bother reading them.

Still sliiiightly skeptical as to Roberts' ability to bring out epic storylines in the ongoing, but more as a defence mechanism in response to IDW's consistently wasteful, disappointing and plain shitty output. If the bigger stories don't come off and we're left with character debris of this quality, I'll settle.

Did prefer the second half of the issue when the reference-o-meter calmed down a little bit. Too many nudge-nudge wink-wink bits tend to distract when the story should have its' own legs.

[inflatable dalek]

So is this something that can be picked up and read in relative isolation (ie, about the same level of references as Wreckers, with the story either not depending on them or the context being made clear)? Frankly I wouldn't even want to go as far as reading a wiki summary of the other ongoing issues.

[Cliffjumper]

Well, people listen to Bumblebee and Hot Rod like they matter, and of course it starts of with Megatron in Autobot custody (I'm guessing he was captured in some shit comic or other, probably the one where they fly the Ghostbusters to Zombieland on the ****ing Enterprise or the one written by that hack who wrote Firebug and is therefore the man the title needs), but yeh, there's really nothing there - at least nothing I picked up on. Remember when the ****ing comics used to just tell stories, and did so for 8 or 9 years without someone having to change the format and resort to cheap stunts every half an hour? That's when this comic is from. It should be drawn by Will Simpson and coloured by Gina Hart.

The only bad thing is that prick Schmidt spewing the usual IDW "nothing will ever be the same again!!!!!!!!!" blurb all over the back page.

This run is going to **** #81 up so much that Furman will cry himself to sleep every night.

EDIT: I mean cry himself to sleep about the Roberts book specifically, rather than all the other things he cries himself to sleep about, i.e. everything he's written since 1994 apart from those issues of What If...?

[inflatable dalek]

Remember when the ****ing comics used to just tell stories, and did so for 8 or 9 years without someone having to change the format and resort to cheap stunts every half an hour? That's when this comic is from. It should be drawn by Will Simpson and coloured by Gina Hart.

I'll hopefully be picking it up at AA then, it's just this and 23 that Rocharts are doing isn't it? I can't see them being collected in trade by themselves so I'll support the hiring of actual non shit talent the old fashioned way.

That sounds very promising for their own title then, if they can just keep their heads down and get on with their own thing it could be top notch. That's why I'm very much hoping it's the other ongoing that's going to get treated by IDW as the "Main" one, it lets that act as a human shield taking all the crap IDW seem to insist on throwing at the lead book.

The only bad thing is that prick Schmidt spewing the usual IDW "nothing will ever be the same again!!!!!!!!!" blurb all over the back page.

You should see his intro to the first big hardback book thing I brought last week, it's almost enough to make me think he's intentionally sending himself up.

It certainly shows why Schmidt going off to make sure toy boxes have the wrong name on them at Hasbro is a good thing:

The book you hold in your hands is the culmination of literally years of work from dozens of creative people who all have one thing in common- they love TRANSFORMERS.

If you grew up as a fan, then you may know how intensely many in the fan community scrutinise the TRANSFORMERS comics, toys, cartoons and movies. And that scrutiny leads to better work from the creators who share the fans passions.

In the case of this volume and the subsequent volumes in the pipeline, we put our heads together to figure out how best to present the IDW COLLECTION of TRANSFORMERS comics.

To call it the IDW COLLECTION means that this was our best foot forward with Hasbro's incredible cast of characters. We've hopefully created new situations, character tricks and traints, and conflicts that can be explored for generations to come.

The first idea we had was to put all of the IDW comics in chronologcial order. But upon looking at the whole line-up we determined that was not the best way to read the books. So then we looked at presenting them in publishing order. but again we felt that this wasn't the best way to read the books either.

So then we looked for a hybrid of the two that took into account the best dramatic order of events. The IDW COLLECTION is neither in straight chronological order, nor is it in publishing order. It's in our suggested reading order for all the comics up through ALL HAIL MEGATRON.

This is our best guess. And it is a guess. Between five different editors in five years and a host of creators, it is impossible to come with a definative reading order. Is it as close as one can get? I do not know myself. I leave that determination up to the scrutiny of the fans.

For now, if this is your first time reading TRANSFORMERS, this is the best way to do it. A nice, slcik, over-sized book put in a great reading order. If you are a long time fan returning, see if this plays out any differently that when you first read the comics. I love this kind of thing, and at the end of the day I hope you do, too.

There's so much comedy potential in that I almost feel like doing a line by line deconstruction for my blog, but as it is, the use of BOLD suggests either IDW don't have the hang of italics or Schmidt is really Tramp.

EDIT: That is I'll be picking it up at AA assuming that Birmingham is still there by the weekend, which the news is suggesting might not be the case right now. Or at least not the area right next to the hotel anyway. Yay.

EDIT @ Cliffy's EDIT: I assume Furman just has Wildman do some comedy pratt falls to cheer him up when he can't sleep.

[tformsopti8]

Quiet possibly the best issue in the TF comics. There is a lot of character development with Prime and Megatron recalling their past battles. It's amazing that all this is done with neither of them lifting a finger. This is probably my favorite part in Transformers # 22

[zigzagger]

Yeah, I'm just going to copy and move this here....and, voila, instant reaction thread!

---

Yeah, I dug the issue. Didn't quite reach the level of brilliance as the previous one, but a pretty nifty character study of Optimus Prime.

Notes and stuff:

Optimus' code, the whole "freedom is the right..." rhetoric he routinely spouts, turns out to be something that he picked up from Megatron. Cool twist. I liked. Definitely pushes the sympathy for the devil angle that I think Roberts is shooting for.

They barely touched on Whirl, but, man, I wanna read/learn more about him. Why do folks in high places value him so much? I really want to know.

On page 17, is that supposed to be pre-war Ironfist speaking to Sentinel?

I'm going to hazard a guess that that's the elusive Tyrest that Ultra Magnus bangs on about speaking with Orion on the last few pages.

It's weird - it seems like there really hasn't been too many Optimus origin stories - not many good ones either, in my opinion - throughout the history of the franchise. The ones that do also tend to skip to the point just before Optimus is named leader.

Marvel didn't really delve into it all that much*, Dreamwave (Furman) briefly touched on it, (I mean, no sooner we're introduced to "Optronix", that he's handed the Matrix), and before IDW hadn't really addressed it. Oh...and there's that episode from the Sunbow series that everyone remembers.

* Correct me if I'm wrong, there's the 1986 annual and that flashback during the Underbase Saga, right? I'm not remembering anything else.

I don't know what Roberts has planned for this (sigh, for f*ck's sake) new ongoing series I keep hearing about, and at the moment I'm still cynical even if I like the guy's work, but he writes a brilliant Optimus Prime. Don't get me wrong, I'm all for allowing the second stringers a chance to shine, but Prime has been starving for this kind of development. I didn't know who IDW Optimus Prime was until now.

[Cliffjumper]

Good stuff once again - it seemed not quite as dynamite as the last one, but then if they'd been published the other way around it might have been different, if you follow... #22 had "wait, a good IDW comic?" as shock value.

References cranked back so we weren't swimming in in-jokes was a good thing.

I liked Whirl - he's a bit of a meat-head, which puts him down as exactly the sort of blunt weapon that'd fit Impactor's Wreckers. I don't think there's much more to him than friends in high places, though - he's a thug who obviously doesn't mind enforcing the Senate's views, it makes sense they'd look after those to keep the thugs onside.

Liked Orion Pax - better than Optronix or whatever that shit was. The name was never the problem - the fact that the guy in "War Dawn" is a complete moron who had nothing in common with Optimus Prime beyond his colour scheme was the problem.

Good stuff. Still convinced IDW will totally and utterly **** up the ongoing somehow.

[Knightdramon]

Not bad, although I did like Megatron's story more.

Whirl does seem to be knee deep in shit he's not fond of, judging from his interactions with Orion. He just reads off as a bully who believes his friends took it too far.

I was gritting like an idiot on Orion impaling that dude ala Underworld: Rise of the Lycans with his smokestack tip. Surprised nobody else picked that up in all the forums. I'd offer my cats off to Roberts\Milne if he was depicted, I don't know, poking the dude's eye out with the smokestack.

I also loved seeing Sentinel again. Dude's bit of a thug, but he's still one of the most lovable thugs of mine. Ratbat and Decimus were nice cameos, even if only for a panel each.

What I don't really like is IDW putting more Primes in the lineage. I LOVE a new Prime [or should I say old Prime], don't get me wrong, but the way IDW protrays Nominus and Zeta leaves us craving for more that we never actually get. Nominus has ONE panel inside a panel and that's all, a snapshot picture. From the way this issue reads it appears his assassination attempt was a ruse to get him underground so they could play with the matrix some more. So did the guy die later and pass it on to Sentinel?

If so, how come none of the precious and corrupt Senate did not get it [it was established last issue that a Prime chooses his successor]? Maybe Sentinel was used as a guinea pig\spearhead?

Only thing I was a bit miffed about was how it's alluded that Prime is not a proper successor of the matrix, but we never see it. Don't get me wrong, I'm in all sorts of crazy love about the franchise's icon basically stealing, good natured, the spotlight, but I would like to see it.

Hope we really get more pre-war\origin material like that!

[Cliffjumper]

Mmm, I would love a series of that stuff. Not the flawed "event"-style War Within series, but Spotlight-style things peppered with historical bits.

[Paul053]

Read it. It's still certainly nice but I couldn't judge which one I like better comparing to #22. They are just all great. One minor thing really bothers me is for those new (old) faces popped up here and there, I somehow wish they had put a name tag beside him. Like the one talked to Optimus (ehhh, Orion) at the end, the one running around doing Sentinel's errands, etc. At the end, I was screaming I want more. Really scared about IDW will screw up again and make the down fall after this one.

[inflatable dalek]

For issue 22 and 23:


Ohhhhhh, that was good wasn't it? I didn't really get much feeling of 23 being less good, but I was reading them back to back and tended to see it as more one big story.

I didn't actually know Roche wasn't drawing this, and my heart sank a bit with I saw Milne's name on the front. But I was pleasantly surprised, I don't know if the colouring helped it look less murky than usual, but he managed to represent the potential he had back in his Dreamwave days rather than the "Claw out my eyes" work of the last few years.

Only bit I didn't really like about the actual plot was that age old prequel thing of everyone just happening to know each other beforehand. Whilst it wasn't as bad as in Megatron Origin (where not only did just about everyone turn up but even hung out in the correct sub groups) it was still a bit off to see Impactor and Whirl just happening to be hanging about with Megatron and Prime. It always makes the Universe feel very small, especially as there should be millions of Transformers on the planet at this stage.

Other than this very, very small niggle though, that was lovely. The big problem with Origin was there was a lot of talk about the oppresion of the miners and working classes, but after the first issue we never saw it. Here we get it, and it's generally done in a smart way. There's some bored thugs and the higher up conspiracy but generally most of the Autobots aren't consciously trying to mistreat anyone, it's a sin of omission.

And some interesting questions about the past are being set up, in a nicely understaed way. What is the full nature of the Senate conspiracy? Why does Optimus not seem to have a natural affinity with the Matrix (Ratchet seems to be able to hold it in his chest without modification, was ol' Orion never really meant for it?). It's making me want to read more. And to see Whirl again (has he even done more than cameo in IDW), imagine a scene between him and Megatron now.

This has me excited about the Rocharts ongoing! I want to know what happens next! Job done.

And my favourite bit of both issues, was Megatron just casually sticking the knife in by correcting Prime's pronunciation of Rodion.

If only people had just liked his poetry.

EDIT: Oh, and the way Whirl was written when Orion caught up with him was brilliant, resigned and even slightly scared. Just enough of a hint of a, if not good then at least salvageable person in there to make him winding up on the Autobot side not seem completely implausible (If he'd been full of anger and real threats could you see Optimus ever allowing him on side at all?).

[Red Dave Prime]

Another solid issue from the brain of Roberts. Not as jaw dropping as part one but still great stuff - amazing how this makes me want to go back to Megatron Origins. I'm sure there are a few niggles but I'm not going to focus on them because they are just that - niggles. There's no glaring IDW trademark "DOH!" moment. There's sensible plotting. Characters are consistent. History is observed but not slavishly. All things that IDW has failed out on a regular basis for the past few years.

Also nice is that these two issues have us all pondering how exactly things lie. The fact that some here would like to see a few issues devoted to this time shows what a good job Roberts has done. I wouldnt mind if they dont fill in all the gaps, at least for a while. This kind of intrigue is a good thing, and I hope we get more of it. Does it set up future plot lines? Who knows, but it gets the old grey matter working.

And Milne is holding it all together with some good art. And I think the credit is all Milnes because even without the improved colouring (which does wonders) it's his more considered new approach thats creating some really nice panels.

Like everyone else, I dont want to suddenly proclaim that everything is super and IDW wont **** it all up but credit where it's due, IDW has improved since the end of Megatrons revenge. That's four (i think) decent issues of the ongoing on the bounce and the silly but super fun Infestation. Yeah, Heart of Darkness was piss-poor in every sense but generally I'm looking forward to seeing where we go with Chaos. Will it wrap everything up nicely before issue 125? We can but hope.

If I can mention one niggle that does somewhat concern me, it's that I'm not sure if Chaos Theory, excellent as it's been really feeds into Chaos itself. This was all about Megatron and Primes origin. But Chaos would seem to be about Galvatron, Cybertron and D-Void (good luck with that Turkey Roberts, I fear even that one's beyond your ability). For the moment I dont see how it ties in. But I'll certainly be picking up the next issue to find out.

[zigzagger]

Only bit I didn't really like about the actual plot was that age old prequel thing of everyone just happening to know each other beforehand. Whilst it wasn't as bad as in Megatron Origin (where not only did just about everyone turn up but even hung out in the correct sub groups) it was still a bit off to see Impactor and Whirl just happening to be hanging about with Megatron and Prime. It always makes the Universe feel very small, especially as there should be millions of Transformers on the planet at this stage.

For me, Impactor and Whirl had feasible professions just going by what I already know about them, so I was able to chalk it up as coincidence. But, I agree with you. Actually, I almost felt the same way when I thought the orange/tan/blue generic could've been a young Ironfist. Two Wreckers showing up? I'm okay with that for the above reasons, but three within a 2-issue origin story? That would've been a bit much. Fortunately the consensus is (the few that noticed, anyway) that it's not Ironfist, thus my fanwank-o-meter remains at a safe and moderate level.

Plus, that would've, like, totally disrupted established continuity, since it was Roberts that told us that Ironfist met Optimus at a later time.

The big problem with Origin was there was a lot of talk about the oppresion of the miners and working classes, but after the first issue we never saw it. Here we get it, and it's generally done in a smart way. There's some bored thugs and the higher up conspiracy but generally most of the Autobots aren't consciously trying to mistreat anyone, it's a sin of omission.

amazing how this makes me want to go back to Megatron Origins.

Weird, isn't it? Mind, I'm probably not going to go back and re-read Megatron Origin, but it does say something about Roberts. I'm looking at M:O in much different way than I did...and I'm not sure how I feel about that yet. It's definitely the story that I always wanted out of that series, though.

[Auntie Slag]

Just a couple of quick questions because I'm not very up on this:

- Is the Transformers ongoing finishing at issue 25?
- Is James Roberts definitely doing more than these two issues?

Back in LSotW, Ironfist stated that he met Prime only once, and Prime thought he was someone else (Skyfall).

[zigzagger]

- Is the Transformers ongoing finishing at issue 25?
- Is James Roberts definitely doing more than these two issues?

No, it's finishing at #125 (the 32nd issue, I guess?); and yes, with the ongoing now shipping biweekly, he'll be splitting writing duties with Costa on issues 24, 26, 28, 30 and 125.

[Red Dave Prime]

Before this came out I actually did re-read Megatron:Origins and I wouldnt recommend you go back. The art is dreadful, so cluttered and just plain bad in parts. And while there is the hint of an interesting story, the execution is poor as well. Megatrons character is nowhere near as investigated as it is here and the background story is under-fed. Soundwave is never explained although my guess is he is now part of the conspiracy that issue 23 brings up.

[inflatable dalek]

One nice thing is that Megatron's characterisation was in keeping with his Origin one, not very chatty and slightly introvert. There's just a lot more layers added on top of that, even if he doesn't go "Hrrrn" so often.

Plus, that would've, like, totally disrupted established continuity, since it was Roberts that told us that Ironfist met Optimus at a later time.

Because it's not like it's drawn by that bloke who filled Megatron: Origin with random characters who weren't supposed to be there.


Ah.