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Old 2016-03-18, 05:50 PM   #61
Warcry
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Just don't get the fandom here sometimes - we have 2 ongoings and a possible 3rd all with huge casts and you guys still want to have more new characters to replace the established ones because there is some perceived neglect of a toy with a great paragraph on the back of the box. Fair enough if you don't like the current cast, no problem there, but its like some of you want to go back to a Hasbro influenced toy of the week approach
I can't speak for anyone else, but because of the 80s show and comics I'm used to TF fiction having a constantly-shifting cast with lots of turnover. It's actually a bit weird for me to see a main cast stick together with so little change for such a long time the way the MTMTE crew has.

Also, what little change we've seen has consisted of new characters joining in, with very few characters leaving. I mean, with Rewind back the only major character who's left and stayed gone is Drift, and I suspect he'll be back sooner than later with Ratchet. Fort Max and Red Alert "left" only to keep showing up anyway. Pipes died but nobody cares about Pipes. Trailbreaker died but he was barely in the book beforehand, so his death doesn't really open up page space. I guess First Aid might count as a major departure if the Protectobots never come back?

But anyway, we've had very few departures. And at the same time we've had Getaway, Megatron, Ravage, Ten, Nightbeat, Nautica, Riptide, Bluestreak, Crosscut, Mainframe, Velocity, Thunderclash and Atomizer all either joining the crew or moving up from background fodder to more important supporting roles. Maybe a few others, too. Plus Deathsaurus, more of the DJD and Scavengers, etc., etc.

For me at least the book has gotten way too crowded. Early MTMTE had a dozen or so main characters and maybe half as many secondaries and focused on them fairly well. But the cast has exploded now to probably three times that, now, and there's just not enough room for everyone. And that means that some people need to go. Whether that means a big ol' massacre or some crew just deciding to leave and staying gone, I'm not fussed. But for me, when a book has forty "main characters" it really has none, and it's hard to care about anyone.

I actually wouldn't mind if the cast got whittled down to the dozen and a half people marooned with Megatron, as long as it meant more focus for some of the secondaries in the group like Ravage or Nautica or Velocity who haven't gotten to do much since they joined the crew. I also wouldn't mind if half of them died/got written out some other way and we wound up with Bluestreak, Crosscut, Thunderclash or whoever else joining the main cast. As long as the cast gets pared down to a more manageable level somehow I think the book will get back on the right track.
 
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Old 2016-03-18, 08:28 PM   #62
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I have read this three times and am currently dumbstruck by it. I really liked it, but its made me feel sad. That's the best I can manage at the moment.
 
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Old 2016-03-18, 09:40 PM   #63
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Few things:

The 450 Decepticons vs the 17 lost light - given that this is based on zulu, that number lines up well with 150 vs 3,000. Also, Its hardly going to be a straight up fight. Goes without saying that shenanigans will be involved. If battles were always determined by the stronger, history wouldn't be so colourful.

The overpowered DJD - this is a bit yes and no. As Auntie Slag has pointed out, Black Shadow was more likely the victim of a Killswitch protocol, and the scavengers was a case of the DJD not taking their target seriously. But we also know that when presented with a stronger target they were tooling up on Nuke recently and it was being hyped up on Nuke that allowed them to take out the Lost Light - an alternate lost light that didn't have Rodimus, Fort Max and a few others. We don't know exactly what state this Lost light was in, but we do know that Brainstorm let them sneak in so we don't know how much of the ship or crew were damaged before realising they were even under attack. Also, I do think part of the complaint about power levels is more because of some of the readership bigging them up themselves. Deathsaurus looked to be able to go head to head with Tarn but I doubt anyones complaining about him being too powerful.

Main Cast vs New Cast OK, main thing. I'm not for one second saying that you cant have a large rotating cast - I'm just saying that's not MTMTE. I'd understand if for the first 15 issues or so we had that type of approach but we didn't so to expect it after 50 (+annual and spotlights) is an unfair criticism of the book. That's all I'm getting at. It would be like complaining that the wire is only set in Baltimore when there are loads of other cities with drugs.

While some of you see it as Roberts over-milking his characters (and that's fine), I see it more like Slag has explained with his Skids point - this character not only had a back story coming in, we now have 50 issues of history to play off. Cyclonus would have had a good send off in issue 47 but I also think it will be interesting to see if he can still love Tailgate now that Tailgate doesn't need his protection or how he reacts to the Knights if they find them - how would a patriot like Cyclonus feel if the Knights didn't live up to his expectations. Or.. what if he is the only guy Super Tailgate cant save through all of this?

I would agree with Warcry that the cast has gotten too large and a culling of 5-10 of the main here would help (plus, you get the whole fall out for the survivors - what if this time its Domey who dies... or what if rewind snuffs it again!) but I just hate the notion of "we need to get rid of Magnus so we can see whats happening with Bluestreak". Some of the readership do enjoy these established characters and I think MTMTE would be less if we had that kind of rotating policy. Now I accept that's my own view, but my gripe with that complaint is that the comic by now has established its set-up. If that's an issue you have, maybe its not the comic for you. Chances are Rodimus and several of team roddy will still be here come issue 55 and onwards
 
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Old 2016-03-18, 10:26 PM   #64
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A lot of interesting points being brought up.

I'll say this again; the set up for the finale is similar to "Remain in Light". Wasn't a handful of 10ish bots up against an army of Legislators and pseudo 'cons and Star Saber? It doesn't have to be an all out fight on an open field guys---the DJD could imprison the crew and have a "chat" with Megatron.

On the overpowered DJD---as it's been pointed out, they are usually on the enhancing energon, which is pretty much gone. If Sky Shadow is anything like Overlord and Sixshot, he has a de-activation code, which Megatron's inner elite are probably privy to, including Tarn. I wouldn't be surprised if Tarn has such a code too, and Megatron uses it against him.

On the main cast's popularity----is this a serious question? This is like asking why are Captain America and Iron Man on the forefront of the Avengers movies. "Team Rodimus" is more or less the main cast of the book; of course people are going to root for them!

The Wire is a poor example for comparison on shuffling characters around; that's a TV show with each episode being an hour long. Over 5 seasons of around 13 episodes each. It just can't be compared to a comic book of 20-24 pages.

I believe that MTMTE has done an OK job in shuffling people around, especially when you stop in to consider that Megatron was more or less a "forced" element during and after Dark Cybertron, yet still feels organic to the story.

I also don't see why bots need to "die to make room for others" or why people feel certain characters have outlived their purpose. If we go at it this way, Magnus should have stayed dead after issues 18-19 and Ratchet should never have made it past issue 20 when he told First Aid he'll resign.

At the moment there's too many bots with a history in one room; Tarn, Megatron, Skids and Brainstorm are all too connected, especially once Brainstorm catches on to the fact that Tarn is responsible for Quark's death. If Tarn is indeed Roller, he also shares a lot of history with Chromedome, Whirl and heck, even Rodimus and Cyclonus.

That's a lot of ifs, buts and hurt pride and comradeship.

Let's see where this all gets us before we stomp in on death and destruction.
 

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Old 2016-03-18, 10:39 PM   #65
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Yeah, I enjoy the large cast. Its part of what keeps MTMTE so interesting and these threads so long! Yes, I would love to have Hound or Huffer or Doublecross be main players, but not at the expense of the main guys who are already established. I don’t want any of the main cast to die because there’s so much invested in them (though I’m not bothered about Nautica or Riptide).

Like Warcry and probably everyone else here I grew up with the constantly shifting rota of the comic and cartoon and that annoyed me. I’m thoroughly happy that there’s a main cast here who get more colourful with time. I’m so itching to find out just how nefarious Chromedome has been with everyone in the past that it would be daylight robbery to kill him now.

I wanna see him deal with the return of ‘his’ Rewind. Its going to happen. You can see in this issue just how much he loves and misses his Rewind, and if the two occupy the same reality. Or worse, Overlord somehow consumes Rewind’s consciousness, so that Chromedome could never kill Overlord, or let anyone else do it.

You could argue Swerve’s got nothing going for him now. But where’s the drama in killing someone who’s all mined out in terms of character? I guess its at crossroads like this is where the writer really earns his chops!
 
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Old 2016-03-18, 10:45 PM   #66
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The Wire is a poor example for comparison on shuffling characters around; that's a TV show with each episode being an hour long. Over 5 seasons of around 13 episodes each. It just can't be compared to a comic book of 20-24 pages.
.
I was also going to point out that the wire also kept lots of its main cast from season one to the forefront all the way to the end. But really, did Kima going into homicide make much sense when they could have just slotted in a new character to fill that role? And did any really want to see more of Crutchfield and Holley when you could just put Bunk centre stage?

I ****ing loved Bunk.

Think the only TV show, bar soaps, that changes it cast often and effectively is Game of Thrones and even that has kept the fan-favourite ones around (and I know its following the book, but Daenerys has little place in season 5 going by the books)

Edit:just read slags post - think characters like swerve can be pulled back alright - they rarely are the main plot though. Think they are the C squad to the A & B squad. At the moment I'm thinking:

A's - Rodimus, Magnus, Megs, Rung, Tailgate, Whirl (not so much in plot but Roberts loves this guy too much to not use him), Skids

B's - Nautica, Nightbeat, Cyclonus, Chromedome, Brianstorm, Ravage,

C's - Swerve, Riptide, Ten, Velocity
 

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Old 2016-03-18, 10:46 PM   #67
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(though I’m not bothered about Nautica or Riptide).


Oh, I was with you until you said this, not even kidding they're my second and third favourite characters in the book (after Megatron)



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Like Warcry and probably everyone else here I grew up with the constantly shifting rota of the comic and cartoon and that annoyed me. I’m thoroughly happy that there’s a main cast here who get more colourful with time. I’m so itching to find out just how nefarious Chromedome has been with everyone in the past that it would be daylight robbery to kill him now.

I wanna see him deal with the return of ‘his’ Rewind. Its going to happen. You can see in this issue just how much he loves and misses his Rewind, and if the two occupy the same reality. Or worse, Overlord somehow consumes Rewind’s consciousness, so that Chromedome could never kill Overlord, or let anyone else do it.

You could argue Swerve’s got nothing going for him now. But where’s the drama in killing someone who’s all mined out in terms of character? I guess its at crossroads like this is where the writer really earns his chops!
Yeah, I suppose I'm suffering from the same thing, but I'm just really, really, REALLY burned out on certain characters and would just like them to go away or have less prominent roles. Imagine a two-parter where Thunderclash leads an away team with Huffer, Crosscut, Hound & Crossblades, or Magnus taking Jackpot, Grotusque, Slamdance and Hoist on a security training course? That's what I'm talking about. Small stories, with more characters. And if characters get offed, let their deaths have some meaning
 

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Old 2016-03-18, 10:49 PM   #68
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I was also going to point out that the wire also kept lots of its main cast from season one to the forefront all the way to the end. But really, did Kima going into homicide make much sense when they could have just slotted in a new character to fill that role? And did any really want to see more of Crutchfield and Holley when you could just put Bunk centre stage?

I ****ing loved Bunk.

Think the only TV show, bar soaps, that changes it cast often and effectively is Game of Thrones and even that has kept the fan-favourite ones around (and I know its following the book, but Daenerys has little place in season 5 going by the books)
The thing about The Wire is they threw most of the drug dealers to the kerb for season 2, then switched the principle drug players in season 3 from Barksdale to Stanfield. There were a lot of people to keep track of, and only the police in the show kept moderately constant. And then there's John Munch's cameo in season 5 which may have destroyed the space time continuum
 

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Old 2016-03-18, 11:01 PM   #69
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As we are on it, I'm thinking this is the death list:

Ten - dies protecting Magnus (who is missing an arm)
Velocity- Just a feeling, Mainframe may well feel guilt about all this...
Riptide - Practically has red-shirt written all over him
Rewind - Much as I like Slags idea, I think Chromedome is going to get that sinking feeling again. I think one of them will definitely die and since his return I think rewind has seemed soulless - he might even be oddly happy to no longer be a part of the wrong universe. Chromedome is a much more interesting character as well.

Anyone else got ideas on who might go down?
 
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Old 2016-03-18, 11:04 PM   #70
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The thing about The Wire is they threw most of the drug dealers to the kerb for season 2, then switched the principle drug players in season 3 from Barksdale to Stanfield. There were a lot of people to keep track of, and only the police in the show kept moderately constant. And then there's John Munch's cameo in season 5 which may have destroyed the space time continuum
Well, season 2 of the wire seemed quite at odds with the other 4 - vast amount of one off characters going on there. I loved that season but it took a few episodes to get the hooks in and I did wonder was the plan for each season to be truly unique (with different main casts each year) and was there a reaction to such a change because in seasons 3-5 I kinda felt that they went through a couple of odd loop holes to keep some of the cops in the spotlight.
 
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Old 2016-03-18, 11:06 PM   #71
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Swerve and Whirl for me. And there's something about Chromedome's shaky past which makes me think he'll embrace death - especially as Rewind is still pining for Dominus (who I'm still convinced is Tarn).
 

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Old 2016-03-18, 11:08 PM   #72
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Well, season 2 of the wire seemed quite at odds with the other 4 - vast amount of one off characters going on there. I loved that season but it took a few episodes to get the hooks in and I did wonder was the plan for each season to be truly unique (with different main casts each year) and was there a reaction to such a change because in seasons 3-5 I kinda felt that they went through a couple of odd loop holes to keep some of the cops in the spotlight.
Yeah, people don't get season 2 on the first run through because it's so jarring to the other seasons. But if you blink, you'll miss one of the dockworkers has a role in season 5 - he ends up as one of the homeless guys
 

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Old 2016-03-18, 11:10 PM   #73
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That’s where I’m really shallow. Its only because they’re non-toy characters that I give them short shrift. If you were to put Nautica’s personality into Huffer, and Riptide’s into Bluestreak then I’d adore them. Its lame I know, especially when I think Rung is so excellent… but he is. And the same goes for Tarn, Pharma, Tyrest, Drift. But for some stupid reason I’ve always felt like Nautica and Riptide are occupying someone else’s space.

Even with you just writing about Thunderclash’s away team I would LOVE that to happen… but would that mean I’d have to wait an extra three issues to see if Rewind gets closer to finding Dominus? We waited something stupid like three years to see the Scavengers again. I still want to know if Ore is alive, and what Spoke & Lockstock look like (I’m assuming the two who came on board Spectre to hold Sunder at gunpoint were two of the Pyrobots, but I only think that because of their fiery colour schemes).

In a way I feel like the entirety of MTMTE could be renamed as ‘Chromedome’s Story’, or ‘Whirl’s story’, because they feel like the two who have had the largest impact on everything that’s happened to everyone.
 
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Old 2016-03-18, 11:14 PM   #74
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That’s where I’m really shallow. Its only because they’re non-toy characters that I give them short shrift. If you were to put Nautica’s personality into Huffer, and Riptide’s into Bluestreak then I’d adore them. Its lame I know, especially when I think Rung is so excellent… but he is. And the same goes for Tarn, Pharma, Tyrest, Drift. But for some stupid reason I’ve always felt like Nautica and Riptide are occupying someone else’s space.

Even with you just writing about Thunderclash’s away team I would LOVE that to happen… but would that mean I’d have to wait an extra three issues to see if Rewind gets closer to finding Dominus? We waited something stupid like three years to see the Scavengers again. I still want to know if Ore is alive, and what Spoke & Lockstock look like (I’m assuming the two who came on board Spectre to hold Sunder at gunpoint were two of the Pyrobots, but I only think that because of their fiery colour schemes).

In a way I feel like the entirety of MTMTE could be renamed as ‘Chromedome’s Story’, or ‘Whirl’s story’, because they feel like the two who have had the largest impact on everything that’s happened to everyone.
What if Thunderclash's away mission is for some sort of Knights Of Cybertron hunt but they find a Dominus clue? That would blow my goddamn mind
 

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Old 2016-03-18, 11:25 PM   #75
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Ha, that would, yes. In terms of inconsistency I guess I find Rodimus more inconsistent than the DJD’s power levels. He’s all for personal glory and being captain, but he also does the “No one dies on my watch” thing. And of course they do!

So in the Christmas issue he’s off Meteor surfing at the exact time they’re passing through Galactic Council space and the entire ship could get fried if mechanicals are detected on board. Rodimus does nothing to protect them. No planning. Instead Megatron and Magnus have to do it all.

On the other side he gets deeply affected by Trailbreaker/Cutter and Red Alert. He wants the crew to love him, and it must have taken a monumental effort to not look at Atomisers list. In this issue however, the entire crew except for the few around him have rejected him. He must feel like utter dirt right now. I bet even standing before Tarn and the rest, he’s more damaged by his own crew.

So how does Roberts explain him acting like a dick, and yet wanting to move heaven and earth for someone like Red Alert?
 
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Old 2016-03-18, 11:29 PM   #76
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Don't forget that he allowed Overlord to be loaded onto the ship, which is where Atomiser's list came from. I can't imagine many people would have been particularly happy at that decision, which is probably why Atomiser and Getaway were able to turn so many of the crew to their way of thinking (that and Getaway being such a magnificent dick)
 

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Old 2016-03-18, 11:39 PM   #77
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Damn, I forgot that! And Drift took the blame because he thinks Rodimus is some sort of chosen one. Oh Rodimus, you massive tart!
 
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Old 2016-03-22, 10:38 PM   #78
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I just re-read Dark Cybertron and we were talking about characters... what about Hound? He was acting Field Commander in Rodimus & Magnus absence, so he's a pretty big deal and then he just melts into the background again
 

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