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Old 2015-02-16, 08:01 AM   #161
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Well, I like Viper...

Other than that (and that's for novelty alone really), I can't see any of those figures fitting in even my Classics-style collection due to the extremely simple designs.

The rest continue the trend of awful for Combiner Wars. That said, I mean awful for me - I think Hasbro have got a good thing going there for kids, although lack of media may result in lower sales than other lines I'd guess.

Devastator looks pretty terrible to me - the individual Constructicons are just way too simple articulation and detail-wise for such large figures. Frankly I'd be disappointed with them if they were Deluxe scale, let alone larger. Still, it seems an improvement on the ROTF Supreme Devastator at least. Seriously, though, what is the deal with that mess of a Mixmaster? Surely it wouldn't have been hard to do better in all modes? He's not exactly complicated in any of them in the first place!

Regardless, I can thank Hasbro for saving me money this year!

I do think it's good that Hasbro are reclaiming their real base - kids. But I do think they will be driving collectors to import high end figures from Takara, Hasbro Asia or third party companies more and more.
 
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Old 2015-02-16, 07:24 PM   #162
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I've been informed we're buying the Devastator, so I came to see what it is we're buying.

First thing I noticed was the arms. They're.....special, aren't they. Still. For the price point it doesn't look too bad, and I suppose a tradeoff has to happen somewhere. Opinion might change once I have them in hand, because if they feel cheap I'm gonna be disappointed.
 
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Old 2015-02-16, 10:48 PM   #163
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Clay View Post
The Combaticons are rumored as well, and someone turned up a listing for a voyager Onslaught in the last week or so to support that, so it's not too surprising. Just take the ladders off Hot Spot and put two big cannons in their place and suddenly the vehicle looks a lot less like a fire truck and more like something else.
You're quite right. After a closer look at Hot Spot's alt-mode in stock photos, there's definitely a lot of Onslaught to it.

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Originally Posted by Clay View Post
Now that we've seen Rook we can start to guess who his remold is. Swindle maybe?
He doesn't really have any features in common with Swindle in either mode, does he? Not that that will necessarily stop them from doing it, but I'd lean more towards Nosecone personally. The weapon mount on the front of the alt-mode makes no sense otherwise.

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Originally Posted by Knightdramon View Post
Great as they are, so far it's only been 3 individual voyager moulds for 4 waves or something, with retools between them. Deluxes fare a bit worse [celebrated Takara Slingshot is Firefly with a new head, Air Raid's lower half is Skydive's lower half etc]. I don't dislike them, but I'd prefer a healthier ratio of new and remoulded/repainted.
But that's not really an option. If all the rumours are to be believed, they're putting out at least six full combiner teams in around a year (Aerialbots, Stunticons, Protectobots, Combaticons, Technobots and Prime's Masquerade Autobots, not counting the Constructicons for the moment because they're not compatible) plus a few random extras like Cyclonus, Slingshot, Wildrider, etc. If they eschewed repaints, the alternative isn't six teams' worth of new molds, or four teams' worth of molds and two of repaints. We'd still only get three teams' worth of molds, half of these characters wouldn't be coming out at all and the overall quality of the figures would be even lower since they didn't get to recoup costs through redecos. Imagine the entire line looking as cheap as the Constructicons! The only way to make money on this many figures in such a short time is to make a ton of them redecos. It's a bit of a shame, but it's a necessary tradeoff for getting the stuff to start with.

At least this way you can pick and choose the decos you like, right? It sort of sucks for completists, though, I admit.

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Originally Posted by Thunderwave View Post
Devestator: Yep. He's a thing. I like him. I'll probably end up picking him up. I'm not a -huge- Devestator fan so I'm willing to drop $150 on a decent version of him rather then a 3rd party offering. I'm not a hugs fan of the individual robots in some cases, but really he's there to be combined.
I'm sorry, but I don't get this attitude. If the combined mode is all that matters, then why aren't fans out there demanding a giant Action Master Devastator designed with articulation and balance in mind? It would be way cheaper than this, a better Devastator in its own right and there wouldn't be individual Constructicons to complain about.

If the price of the thing was less than six regular Voyagers then maybe I could get behind it, but it's not. $150 in the US ($180 here in Canada) is almost exactly what six Voyagers would cost. The engineering just isn't there for me to be able to pretend that the thing is worth it when the same amount of cash could buy Silverbolt, Motormaster, Hot Spot, Brainstorm, Roadbuster and Optimus. And even the last two, who are quite lacking IMO, are a ton better than any of the Constructicons.

I just don't get who the target market for the thing is. As an expensive Generations toy based on G1 characters you'd assume it's aimed at collectors, but it's way too simple to pass muster in that regard unless you just want some static thing to stand at the back of a shelf. On the other hand, most kids won't even know the thing exists if Metroplex was any indication of how many stores will stock it, and how many kids care about a combiner team who hasn't had a significant role in any fiction they're likely to have seen? If it's primarily aimed at kids, shouldn't it feature characters from the current kids' show and have the same design style as the current kids' toylines?
 
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Old 2015-02-16, 10:57 PM   #164
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You're quite right. After a closer look at Hot Spot's alt-mode in stock photos, there's definitely a lot of Onslaught to it.
When I first saw the picture, I honestly thought, "Hey, it's a blue Onslaught."
 
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Old 2015-02-16, 11:03 PM   #165
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Gotta admit, I'll be sticking to my original Constructicons and my still fab Build Team repaints. This new Devy just isn't doing it for me And I'd agree, the $149 price tag puts this bunch solely in the collector bracket and for that kind of dough, you've got to be impressing. I just don't think the climate is right for Hasbro to be turning out huge toys and both Gen. Metroplex and Devastator look poor to me compared to the more sturdy large toy offerings that the Unicron trilogy turned out a decade ago.

Have to say, out of all these CW gestalts, Superion has turned out the best. He's reasonably well proportioned and all the individual bots are nifty.
 
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Old 2015-02-17, 12:32 AM   #166
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Am I the only one just completely distrustful of Hasbro's official images now anyway? What does impress me about the Constructicons, like the glossy sheen and the little painted details, is quite likely to not be on the final product.

That said, I do get the appeal of this to collectors; it's just a different ethos to Transformers combiners. It's more in line with Voltron or Chogokin; the big robot is the aim of the game, the ability to split into smaller transforming robots is a feature of the robot rather than a feature of the smaller robots being the ability to combine into a single larger one. It's likely to result in a more coherent final product than most Transformers combiners, which tend to be handicapped by the compromise. And I suppose that logic is backed up by the boxed-set only release - they're admitting the Constructicons just don't stand up as individual figures.

Not that this excuses the failings or that I even really agree with it as a sensible plan, but I'd wager that's the thought behind it.
 
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Old 2015-02-17, 12:51 AM   #167
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I thought I saw little wheels near Scavengers ankles in the pics Denyer linked to. But, I didn't see more in his upper legs, or any in Bonecrusher. I was hoping these guys would be like most tank bots, and be able to roll in vehicle mode. It also looks like Hook's crane can't swivel and Mixmaster's drum doesn't turn. Scrapper's shovel looks to have a joint in the middle, like Scoop, which is nice.

The only real letdown is Mixmaster. His robot mode is quite good, but his mixing drum makes an awkward tail instead of a backpack. His actual truck cab looks small, or at least the windshield does, and his Devestator foot faux cab is completely unpainted. Could you paint the faux cab windows and drive him backwards? The wheels would be orientated oddly, but the smokestack and drum would be OK. I'm assuming the drum reversal is just so it ends up orientated correctly in leg mode.

Group pics show Long Haul being larger than the others. Maybe he's full Voyager size, and the rest are smaller? Or, 5 are standard size and LH is bigger. Either way, somebody probably doesn't fit an existing size/price point, which might be why they're sold as a set.

I'm not too bothered by the simplicity. I don't want to spend half an hour going from combined mode to individuals because I've goy to do 6 intricate transformations. The CW limbs I've got so far (Alpha Bravo, Skydive, and Dragstrip) are simple, quick, and fun. Though, it does seem that they've fully given up on trying to hide arms in plane mode. Skydive and Thundercracker don't even try. Powerglide's arms folded away better in G1.

Speaking of Skydive, mine has some pretty loose joints. He can't hold his foot/hand weapon up in robot mode, or Powerglide in gestalt arm mode, without the arm drooping at the elbow. Is this common to all Skydives, or is it worth exchanging for another?

That overall foot/hand design does a very good job at forming either hand or a foot. I like that each one seems tailored to its mold. Alpha Bravo's is sculpted to line up with his upper cockpit in leg mode. Dragstrip's has a hole in the bottom to mount to his vehicle mode. I just hope all the remolding budget isn't being spent on gestalt appendages.

Limb mold reuse isn't too bad, since each one has 4 modes you can display several moldmates and still have some variety. I hope they do more reworking molds into non combiner characters (ie Motormaster into Optimus, Silverbolt into Cyclonus) instead of one combiner character into another (ie Hot Spot likely into Onslaught), just because I want a larger number of new molds. They could do entire teams of new combiners, like the FOC Wreckers, or Masquerade Autobots.
 
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Old 2015-02-17, 06:22 AM   #168
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On the subject of mold reuse, I have to remind you of the Energon combiner teams. You know, the teams where each one only had two unique limb molds and the other two were simple repaints. At some point Hasbro admitted they had to do it that way for budget reasons (I can't remember if it was so they could do 3 teams instead of 2, or be able to do them at all), so taking that into account I expected a lot of re-use in the line.

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Originally Posted by Cliffjumper View Post
Am I the only one just completely distrustful of Hasbro's official images now anyway? What does impress me about the Constructicons, like the glossy sheen and the little painted details, is quite likely to not be on the final product.
Nope, I don't trust them either. Haven't trusted them for a while since they tend not to be the final production version, but I think it was pics for the leader Megatron and Armada Megatron that really put me off them. Way too much digital editing on them, especially with the color.
 
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Old 2015-02-17, 09:56 AM   #169
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Originally Posted by Tantrum View Post
Speaking of Skydive, mine has some pretty loose joints. He can't hold his foot/hand weapon up in robot mode, or Powerglide in gestalt arm mode, without the arm drooping at the elbow. Is this common to all Skydives, or is it worth exchanging for another?
Mine has similar issues. His joints, whilst not feeling loose per se, are very...fluid, they don't ratchet and crunch in the same way the other Aerialbots do. Lacking a ratchet joint at the elbows does mean he struggles with the weight of the cannons. Hold's his rifle up fine though.

Have to say, Skydive is my least favourite. He just looks weird with his orthopedic shoe-feet, strange expanse of chest/ shoulders and odd triangular head that looks like a lady's bob hair cut. His eyes are so close together it looks like someone's put his head in a vice. Jet mode is decent though.
 
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Old 2015-02-17, 02:58 PM   #170
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Yeah, the other Aerialbots they've come out with are infinitely superior to Skydive. Firefly, for example, is great in robot mode, even if all the white is a bit too much. Alpha Bravo is pretty great, too.
 
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Old 2015-02-17, 07:59 PM   #171
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Warcry View Post

I just don't get who the target market for the thing is. As an expensive Generations toy based on G1 characters you'd assume it's aimed at collectors, but it's way too simple to pass muster in that regard unless you just want some static thing to stand at the back of a shelf.
The way I see it, it's aimed at people who want something impressive that's not a recolour but who can't afford/justify the purchase of a 3rd party notDevastator. And possibly kids who see if in the store and go "that thing is huge, I want it!"

Just because it's simplistic doesn't mean it's not going to get some love. It's also a good couple of hundred dollars or so under the next best alternative- it'll find it's niche.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cliffjumper View Post
Am I the only one just completely distrustful of Hasbro's official images now anyway? What does impress me about the Constructicons, like the glossy sheen and the little painted details, is quite likely to not be on the final product.
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Originally Posted by Unicron View Post
Nope, I don't trust them either. Haven't trusted them for a while since they tend not to be the final production version, but I think it was pics for the leader Megatron and Armada Megatron that really put me off them. Way too much digital editing on them, especially with the color.

You're making me sad. I'm sort-of already sad that it's not a Green Giant/Hercules, now I'm just doubly sad. Here's hoping it's not shit.
 
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Old 2015-02-17, 08:26 PM   #172
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The show photos look better overall than the Hercules V2 KO I've got, although I think my best bet for a back-of-display piece is to work on replacing the head of that...
 
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Old 2015-02-17, 08:55 PM   #173
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On the issue of the pricing of the new Devastator, I'm kind of saddened over how lenient a lot of fans have become.

Objectively speaking? It's a combiner made out of barely painted voyager sized robots that have the articulation and engineering of legends. The biggest thing it has going for it is size.

But it costs 150 USD. Taking everything into consideration, it still costs too much for what it is. It's 150 USD dudes.

For [actually less than that] I was able to get MP Magnus, which is more articulated, has die-cast, rubber tires and enough paint to make him interesting.

Same arguement for MP10 Convoy, FT Soar/Scoria [close call on these though] and others.

Hmmm.
 
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Old 2015-02-17, 09:26 PM   #174
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Or to put it another way, leaving aside 3P comparisons they're reasonably articulated large versions of the originals for roughly the same cost as an Encore reissue set (and for the price of five individual figures of that size, assuming voyagers are twenty quid now and that $150 ~ 100).
 
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Old 2015-02-17, 11:02 PM   #175
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Warcry View Post
I just don't get who the target market for the thing is. As an expensive Generations toy based on G1 characters you'd assume it's aimed at collectors, but it's way too simple to pass muster in that regard unless you just want some static thing to stand at the back of a shelf.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Sades View Post
The way I see it, it's aimed at people who want something impressive that's not a recolour but who can't afford/justify the purchase of a 3rd party notDevastator. And possibly kids who see if in the store and go "that thing is huge, I want it!"

Just because it's simplistic doesn't mean it's not going to get some love. It's also a good couple of hundred dollars or so under the next best alternative- it'll find it's niche.
Hmm. I think he may be conflating "simple" with "cheap". I like the simple design: big, blocky, uncomplicated, quick to transform, etc. I don't like the cheapness of it: hollow parts, inarticulate robots, the general sense of visible cost-cutting, etc.

I think that the former quality would work in favor of its appeal (especially in contrast to the third party stuff), but the latter quality is going to dissuade people by making it not look like it justifies its price. If the best Hasbro could do for Devastator was to offer six over-sized legends figures for the low-low price of $150, maybe they shouldn't have bothered?
 
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Old 2015-02-17, 11:51 PM   #176
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Yep, know what he meant- It's still going to have its fans.

Also, sorry; I sometimes tend to sound aggressive when I'm not trying to be:
 
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Old 2015-02-18, 12:57 AM   #177
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No problem.

It is something to consider... it's a $150 with no media tie in, but it's too cheaply produced to really appeal to the people that would recognize it anyway. As you say, that may or may not be relevant if it's impressive enough in person to kids and parents, but the price tag make that an expensive gamble on Hasbro's part.
 
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Old 2015-02-18, 02:30 AM   #178
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Knightdramon View Post
On the issue of the pricing of the new Devastator, I'm kind of saddened over how lenient a lot of fans have become.
I think an argument could be made that it's not so much leniency as it is becoming more realistic in terms of what can be expected out of a big corporation, but I'm just a silly girl/don't really give a shit. Well, I might care a little, else I wouldn't be here. Not enough to expand on the thought, though.
 
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Old 2015-02-18, 06:10 AM   #179
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Originally Posted by Tantrum View Post
I thought I saw little wheels near Scavengers ankles in the pics Denyer linked to. But, I didn't see more in his upper legs, or any in Bonecrusher. I was hoping these guys would be like most tank bots, and be able to roll in vehicle mode. It also looks like Hook's crane can't swivel and Mixmaster's drum doesn't turn.
Shit, seriously? That's nearly as egregious as Scrapper's non-elbows at that size.

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Originally Posted by Tantrum View Post
I'm not too bothered by the simplicity. I don't want to spend half an hour going from combined mode to individuals because I've goy to do 6 intricate transformations. The CW limbs I've got so far (Alpha Bravo, Skydive, and Dragstrip) are simple, quick, and fun.
They're simple, sure. But they're simple in a good way. The transformations aren't complex but they're fully-articulated and they can pull off all four modes with reasonable success. The Constructicons are even simpler in spite of being bigger and only needing to pull off three configurations instead of four. Looking at, say, Scavenger or Mixmaster, I can't honestly say they'd be any fun on their own. Whereas Fireflight is fantastic in his own right and I'm perfectly happy even though I don't have anyone to combine him with.

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The way I see it, it's aimed at people who want something impressive that's not a recolour but who can't afford/justify the purchase of a 3rd party notDevastator.
I guess? I just have a hard time divorcing value-for-money from the equation. I mean, if a terrible Devastator is worth $150 (actually, $180 for us), then surely an actually good Devastator would be worth more than that? I'm not a huge fan of the third-party Devastators either since they didn't even try to make the individual robots look like the Constructicons, but I'd certainly pay out for one of them way before I spent any money on the official one even though they cost double.

I guess if I really really wanted something and couldn't afford to spend over $180 I might consider it, but I'd have a really hard time convincing myself I didn't just get ripped off. I mean, shit, I could buy the other four Aerialbots I haven't got yet and all the Protectobots for not much more than that. I'd have a heck of a lot more fun with them, too.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sades View Post
And possibly kids who see if in the store and go "that thing is huge, I want it!"
Actually, this brings up something that I've wondered about for a while. Over the past few years I've noticed that Hasbro's big-ticket items (MPs, Platinum releases, Metroplex) come in closed boxes that you can't actually see the toy in. And going by the convention pics it seems like Devastator will be the same. I wonder if that makes a difference to kids, not being able to see the actual toy when you're browsing the aisles.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Knightdramon View Post
On the issue of the pricing of the new Devastator, I'm kind of saddened over how lenient a lot of fans have become.
Thank you! I was beginning to feel like a lone crazy.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Denyer View Post
Or to put it another way, leaving aside 3P comparisons they're reasonably articulated large versions of the originals for roughly the same cost as an Encore reissue set (and for the price of five individual figures of that size, assuming voyagers are twenty quid now and that $150 ~ 100).
It seems like "six Voyagers" is their target price for this set (both in US and Canada, the price works out to be exactly that), so it'll probably work out to more like 120 if a Voyager is 20 there now.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Clay View Post
Hmm. I think he may be conflating "simple" with "cheap". I like the simple design: big, blocky, uncomplicated, quick to transform, etc. I don't like the cheapness of it: hollow parts, inarticulate robots, the general sense of visible cost-cutting, etc.
Simple is okay -- the Aerialbots are simple but still cool. If the Constructicons were made to the same standards as Silverbolt or Alpha Bravo, I'd be sad because I don't have any room for the set. But they're closer to those upscaled Prime Cyberverse guys that came out a year or two ago.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sades View Post
I think an argument could be made that it's not so much leniency as it is becoming more realistic in terms of what can be expected out of a big corporation, but I'm just a silly girl/don't really give a shit. Well, I might care a little, else I wouldn't be here. Not enough to expand on the thought, though.
I dunno. Maybe I'm just obtuse, but I don't like seeing a box set of six Voyager sized-toys, sold for the price of six Voyager-class toys, be so lacking in terms of design complexity and finish. I don't expect a Masterpiece-quality figure for that price, certainly, but my standards are certainly higher than this.

I mean, I get that economies of scale are a thing, and a Titan is going to get a smaller production run than a Voyager. The costs of designing and making the molds will eat into their margins, since they're selling further units. And the mass of the thing in combined mode means that you can't just toss in ball joints everywhere and expect him to still be able to stand, so proper joints will raise the cost a bit too. But if those factors mean that your final product winds up being this shoddy, then it never should have made it off the drawing board. Do something else instead, something that you can do properly without blowing the budget. Maybe make a Devastator at the same scale as the other CW toys instead (with the added bonus of making the individual Constructicons compatible with the other figures) and fill the "big Christmas toy" slot with a giant $100+ Omega Supreme for him to fight (who, if Metroplex is any indication, would turn out much better than Devastator did).
 
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Old 2015-02-18, 10:03 AM   #180
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I wonder why they felt the need to make Devastator so huge. I'd have been happy with six Deluxe sized herberts. And I think you're right - Hasbro have missed a trick by not making them compatible with the other CW toys.

And I don't think its unreasonable to expect some kind of wow factor for $149 (and in the UK I suspect we'll be looking at 150 - 180 for this given that the price for Voyagers is hovering close to 30 these days). It's a lot of money to spend on a toy and I expect something that looks better than those cheap as chips Poundshop knock offs.

I was watching this again last night:

http://youtu.be/Hzn44jgOTYA

and it made me sad how close to official product bootlegs are now
 
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