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Old 2015-04-23, 05:08 PM   #401
Knightdramon
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And finally, 3+ years after the original release...

Grandus Hexatron. Featuring the updated Hexatron Continuum mould, with new beast and robot heads.
 
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Old 2015-04-23, 05:12 PM   #402
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Badass.

Hexatron is way too big and expensive for me to ever ponder owning two of them, but the mold looks great in those colours. I'd imagine lots of fans of the Japanese shows will be all over this.

Looks the shoulders are remolded too, with cannons there instead of claws.
 
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Old 2015-04-23, 06:56 PM   #403
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Oh, good catch.

Seems nice and if it goes for a decent sale price later on I might be tempted, although to be honest, I'm too used to the dark ver with the cleavers I have, and whenever I try to pose him with just the guns it feels...flat? Boring?

This mould needs swords to shine.
 
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Old 2015-04-23, 11:36 PM   #404
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Also in third party news today, here are a legends-sized version of Ultra Magnus and a Diaclone style repaint of it, as well as color test shots of the next two Warbotron Technobots.

I have to say that I'm liking the individual robots of Warbotron's group quite a bit. I may end up double-dipping on third party Computrons after all. Will have to wait and see what Strafe looks like in color first, though.

Also, long story short, Warbotron's Fierce Attack (Onslaught) was shown in promo shots without the twin cannons mounted on his back in robot mode, causing much wailing and gnashing of teeth on the big board because that meant that they couldn't attach on the back... until someone who's managed to already get their copy posted today that the cannons can still attach there. There's a lesson in there about the combination of baseless speculation and the echo chamber effect.
 
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Old 2015-04-24, 07:20 PM   #405
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Clay View Post

Also, long story short, Warbotron's Fierce Attack (Onslaught) was shown in promo shots without the twin cannons mounted on his back in robot mode, causing much wailing and gnashing of teeth on the big board because that meant that they couldn't attach on the back... until someone who's managed to already get their copy posted today that the cannons can still attach there. There's a lesson in there about the combination of baseless speculation and the echo chamber effect.
Don't get me started on the knee-jerk reactions in this fandom in the past year. I used to be into macross [much more than I am now] and the forums I frequented were filled with negative people who nitpicked about shades of blue, red lines on figures, slavish accuracy to lineart that was not designed with transformation in mind, etc etc. Eventually it sucked the fun out---for every new picture there was a flurry of negativity and nitpick.

Rings a bell?
 
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Old 2015-04-24, 08:56 PM   #406
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Yep, it sounds familiar.

Anyway, Toyworld finally showed a prototype of their not-Swoop today, along with the first full shot of the combined mode. I have to say, I'm liking this set more and more. The combined mode looks quite nice too even if it is just a Dinobot version of Predaking. But it looks fun, and that's the best part.
 
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Old 2015-04-29, 09:16 PM   #407
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3rd party news---

FT are releasing Toy Scoria, Comic Scoria, Sever and Tesla at the same time [estimated closer to end of June]. Also working on prototype Sludge and 2-3 other announcements to come around the time of these releases.

MMC Grandus Hex up for preorder at most places. Uses the Hexatron continuum description of the mould. MMC Cynicus and the Arcee retools are up for release within the first week of May [Cynicus batch 1 has already gone out].

Megasteel Megatron still worked on.

Badcube Warpath testshot out to at least Peaugh. A bit too fiddly for my taste.

Under the radar, but repaints of FP Brainstorm and Chromedome have been shown. Brainstorm repainted as...um...one guy from Zone, Chromedome kind of repainted in a more G1 accurate style. Personally still unsure if these are one-off customs or will be actual production pieces.

Still -HEAVILY- excited about MMC's releases. FT not doing bad either.
 
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Old 2015-04-29, 09:57 PM   #408
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In other news, "items that infringe on Hasbro's IP" are now banned from BotCon. FunPub's PR flack is very insistent about not using the term "third party" for whatever reason, which naturally means that nobody really has a clue what he just banned the dealers from selling and everyone is jumping to whatever conclusion allows them to get the angriest.
 
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Old 2015-04-29, 10:03 PM   #409
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Cheers for the updates. If anyone's after an original Scoria then at a decent price, BTW, will probably be looking to move mine on (in the box toy Scoria comes in).

If I hadn't picked up a Caelus, that Swoop's a decent effort.

Finally got a ArtTek Retro Rex head last week, and it looks a lot better than the prototype photos. I'm liking the fairly random selection of 3P voyager-scale dinos I've picked up more and more as an ensemble.

edit:
Quote:
In other news, "items that infringe on Hasbro's IP" are now banned from BotCon. FunPub's PR flack is very insistent about not using the term "third party" for whatever reason, which naturally means that nobody really has a clue what he just banned the dealers from selling and everyone is jumping to whatever conclusion allows them to get the angriest.
I'm going to guess that Apollyon looms large amongst the reasons parts of Hasbro are a bit narked. Possibly even the fact that a bunch of ex-employees went on Kickstarter with the Pretenders thing, even though it didn't reach target. Homages have been more blatant in the last year or so.

It'll help other conventions.
 
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Old 2015-04-29, 10:21 PM   #410
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Warcry View Post
In other news, "items that infringe on Hasbro's IP" are now banned from BotCon. FunPub's PR flack is very insistent about not using the term "third party" for whatever reason, which naturally means that nobody really has a clue what he just banned the dealers from selling and everyone is jumping to whatever conclusion allows them to get the angriest.
I'd bet this ban is a directive handed down from Hasbro (obviously, and I'm surprised it took this long. And I know about the attempt that went bad a few years back), and I wouldn't be shocked if the specific wording was Hasbro's also.

I think it's either that an outright ban on all non-Hasbro/Takara/big toy company products isn't viable legally or that by using the term 'third party' to refer to these products in the context of Hasbro's official convention may convey some small amount of legitimacy to 3rd party stuff that Hasbro can't let happen.
That or the wording was specifically chosen to give them wiggle room on what specific things they decide to allow or ban.

What seems to be the real issue isn't the '3rd party vs IP infringement' wording choice, it's the claim that it's obvious what is and isn't allowed despite a lot of legitimate questions on the matter. Like it's pretty obvious that Quakewave and Apollyon would be banned, while replacement hands/feet for the CW combiners or generic weapon sets should be fine. Yet it's completely unclear if add-on parts that would bring a figure closer to it's animation model (the FoC Bruticus kits, for example) would be allowed.
 
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Old 2015-04-30, 12:08 AM   #411
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Also in question: fan art and hand made stuff, like the little plushy Ravage I picked up at the 2008 convention.
 
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Old 2015-04-30, 02:07 AM   #412
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Warcry View Post
In other news, "items that infringe on Hasbro's IP" are now banned from BotCon. FunPub's PR flack is very insistent about not using the term "third party" for whatever reason, which naturally means that nobody really has a clue what he just banned the dealers from selling and everyone is jumping to whatever conclusion allows them to get the angriest.
"Items that infringe on Hasbro's IP" is a smaller group than "third party", so the language they're using is actually the more permissive of the two. The examples Unicron mentioned, replacement parts and generic weapons, would fall under "third party" while not infringing.

The FoC Bruticus animation model would count as IP, so those kits would fall under the language Hasbro's using. But, they may be more permissive towards things that require the purchase of Hasbro toys to use.

Didn't one of the 3rd party companies try making their own characters? Those should be OK under Hasbro's language.
 
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Old 2015-04-30, 08:51 AM   #413
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I think its fair enough. These companies are basically making Transformers now - name fudging or not. Feral Rex is Predaking and we all know it. Trying to pretend otherwise is silly.

Agree that originated transforming robots that are not based on any pre-existing Transformers designs/ toys would be alright, but then no ones interested in those.
 
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Old 2015-04-30, 03:28 PM   #414
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Denyer View Post
I'm going to guess that Apollyon looms large amongst the reasons parts of Hasbro are a bit narked. Possibly even the fact that a bunch of ex-employees went on Kickstarter with the Pretenders thing, even though it didn't reach target. Homages have been more blatant in the last year or so.
Combiner Wars probably has a fair bit to do with it too -- the zillions of combiners that make up 90% of the third-party market are in direct competition with Hasbro's own offerings this year.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Clay View Post
Also in question: fan art and hand made stuff, like the little plushy Ravage I picked up at the 2008 convention.
Fan art should be fine -- from what I read, anyone who buys a spot in the convention's artist section is technically licensed to use the TF brand for the duration of the event specifically to avoid headaches like that.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tantrum View Post
"Items that infringe on Hasbro's IP" is a smaller group than "third party", so the language they're using is actually the more permissive of the two. The examples Unicron mentioned, replacement parts and generic weapons, would fall under "third party" while not infringing.
See, this is where the problem lies. Because the terminology used doesn't cover all third-party items, nobody really seems to know which third-party items are banned. It really depends on how strictly the convention-runners interpret it, and even though dozens of people have asked their PR guy about it his answers have been evasive "you know what I'm talking about" BS.

They might be trying to say "don't sell any Transformers-related merchandise that wasn't made by Hasbro, Takara or an official licensee". But on the other hand, they could just be trying to avoid seeing vendor stalls filled to the brim with the Chinese knockoffs of G1 toys and MP cars that are so popular these days. More likely, what they're trying to say is somewhere in between.

I recognize that it can be a bit difficult for Hasbro and their reps to communicate clearly when they're talking about third-party stuff, because the moment that they come right out and explicitly say "we don't want you selling Feral Rex, Hexatron or Iron Dibots because they violate our intellectual property", they have to sue to stop the manufacture and distribution of those items. If they don't, they've admitted that their IP is being violated and chosen not to defend it, which makes it a lot harder for them if a situation ever does come up that's a big enough headache to actually be worth suing over. But even then, surely there has to be a clearer way to say what they mean instead of leaving it up to guesswork?

It also doesn't help that the third-party scene is rife with confusion, misinformation, outright lies and self-interested justification. No two fans can seem to agree on just what is and isn't acceptable (either legally or morally) for 3P producers to do, which makes the whole "everyone knows what we mean, so we don't have to say it" attitude look silly. After all...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Skyquake87 View Post
I think its fair enough. These companies are basically making Transformers now - name fudging or not. Feral Rex is Predaking and we all know it. Trying to pretend otherwise is silly.
...if you go read through the thread on this subject over at TFW, I'm sure you'll find a ton of people making exactly this argument, pretending that third-party toys are just "homaging" or "inspired by" Transformers characters, and that's totally different from actually being based on Transformers characters somehow, and thus perfectly legal. And tons of other people who think it's an atrocity to use replacement weapons or heads on your official figures and that even that level of 3P production needs to be shut down.
 
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Old 2015-04-30, 09:23 PM   #415
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I guess the thing that'll force Hasbro's hand one way or the other is if one of these 3P things ends up in the hands of a child whom ends up injured and / or poisoned by the thing.

"homaging" or "inspired by" probably wouldn't stand up to close scrutiny in court though would it? Giant, Feral Rex, those 3P Headmasters and so on if presented to next to the Hasbro originals/ CW / Generations stuff plus comics, cartoons etc - its going to be difficult to argue you're not clearly ripping off someone else's ideas and making money off the back of it.

This isn't like say, the situation with Lego - the likes of Mega Blocks, Hasbro's own Kre-O and so on can deliver Lego-like construction toys because Lego's patents have expired and that's fair game (and there's a noticeable branding difference etc to differentiate the copycats).
 
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Old 2015-04-30, 11:02 PM   #416
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CW is a bunch of minor characters up against substantially more expensive third party figures, launched after a lot of 3P combiners had already been released.

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totally different from actually being based on Transformers characters somehow, and thus perfectly legal
I doubt there's more scope for challenge under copyright, trademark or design patent law than for the same with G.I. Joe versus generic army or ninja action figures. Plus shutting down importers won't curb foreign sales.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ziggy
I guess the thing that'll force Hasbro's hand one way or the other is if one of these 3P things ends up in the hands of a child whom ends up injured and / or poisoned by the thing.
Would've already been an issue with discount store KOs.
 
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Old 2015-04-30, 11:29 PM   #417
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Warcry View Post
I recognize that it can be a bit difficult for Hasbro and their reps to communicate clearly when they're talking about third-party stuff, because the moment that they come right out and explicitly say "we don't want you selling Feral Rex, Hexatron or Iron Dibots because they violate our intellectual property", they have to sue to stop the manufacture and distribution of those items. If they don't, they've admitted that their IP is being violated and chosen not to defend it, which makes it a lot harder for them if a situation ever does come up that's a big enough headache to actually be worth suing over. But even then, surely there has to be a clearer way to say what they mean instead of leaving it up to guesswork?
This kind of sounds like you're upset that Hasbro is doing exactly what they have to do to be as cool as possible about this. They don't want people selling fancy 3P Not-Quite-Defensors at the same convention they're promoting their less impressive retail Defensors. But, they don't want to actually shut down 3P production. So, they have to be a little vague about it. If they wanted to say "don't sell any Transformers-related merchandise that wasn't made by Hasbro, Takara or an official licensee" they'd just say it.

It'd be nice if they could clarify ambiguitites, like the afore-mentioned FoC add-ons to match the animation model. But, if they start answering questions, they may get one they don't want to answer, since it would force their hand. It's probably easier for them to stay mum on the 3P thing if they don't acknowledge specific examples, or use the phrase "third party".

It seems like they just don't want people selling complete figures representing a Hasbro-owned character. Sure, you can find people arguing that 3P homages don't violate IP. But, this is the internet; you can find people arguing that Bigfoot created vaccines that cause autism after faking the moon landing. Besides, just because something is legal doesn't mean Hasbro has to have it at their con.
 
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Old 2015-05-01, 03:59 AM   #418
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Warcry View Post
In other news, "items that infringe on Hasbro's IP" are now banned from BotCon. FunPub's PR flack is very insistent about not using the term "third party" for whatever reason, which naturally means that nobody really has a clue what he just banned the dealers from selling and everyone is jumping to whatever conclusion allows them to get the angriest.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't they say that last year as well? I seem to recall a lot of 3P products in photos from last years BotCon.
 
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Old 2015-05-01, 12:38 PM   #419
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In other news, Fierce Attack is in stock at BBTS now.
 
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Old 2015-05-01, 04:23 PM   #420
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And a teaser of a MTMTE Rodimus here.

Few months from now? A year? Two? Who knows.
 
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