The Transformers Archive Skip to main content / Also skip section headers

[The Transformers Archive - an international fan site]
Please feel free to log in or register.

 
  • transformers toys
  • transformers comics
  • transformers cartoon
  • transformers live-action movies
  • transformers fandom
  • transformers forum
Old 2006-04-18, 04:45 PM   #181
Denyer
Shooty Dog Thing
 
Denyer's Avatar
 
UK
Smile

@ Cliffy:
Quote:
You realise Space Pirates was her debut, besides the TF:TM comic
By issue, not chronology -- though Space Pirates and its related arcs don't reconcile well with the b&w stories.

Quote:
the US storyline had been through two storylines where stuff actually happened by Smelting Pool (the mini/Shockwave), plus several other shorter storylines (#13-16, basically). It's not about closure, it's about progress.
Shockwave's the only thing in there I'd really call progress -- it was a big shakeup to have Megatron essentially be marginalised from that point on. Giving us the situation back on Cybertron was the next redefinition, and then there are some more adjustments of scale over the rest of the US series such as Headmasters ("war without end") and the intro of Primus. Writing out Prime was also a major redefinition, though not a successful one.

IMO G2 managed two -- the existence of the Empire in #1 (into which I'd roll the 'budding' backstory as it's explanation for the Empire) and the Maximo reveal in #12. We've had one in Infiltration (the "bodycounts and worlds aflame" bit.) My next strongest interest in IDW continuity is what Transformers are up to in the wider universe, though I'm not sure what situation #6 will leave things in and that's also a draw.

Quote:
If it was intended as dramatic
More that people tend not to be wittering soliloquys when they get shot. The dialogue's redundant, but people would complain if the action played out as just visuals.

Quote:
rendered stupid by his idiotic actions (wander up to smoking crater, hope Bltizwing's forgotten about third mode
He's working on the assumption grounding has the same KO effect on Blitzwing as it has on Skywarp. Which turns out to be wrong, but he's not exactly a combat specialist.

Quote:
the forced, edgy street characterisation.
Which is basically no different to Skin in GenX. I didn't mind those teen characterisations either (until it hit AoA.) There'll be no complaints from this direction if the humans are marginalised in Escalation, but their competencies and bickering seem realistic enough and add (IMO) to the initial arc. Possibly the initial three issues could have featured cut-aways to the other Autobots monitoring/foiling Decepticon activity/probes and made some people happier with the pacing, but I'm generally digging the way things balance between being art-led and dialogue/idea-led.

Quote:
it could be a lose-lose situation - Infiltration could not go anywhere, and lots of people see the "end" of the series as a good place to stop; Infiltration could pick up the pace, really get somewhere good as opposed to vaguely satisfactory, and BAM!, we're on Cybertron, possibly with the same plodding build-up.
Furman can't afford too much buildup on Stormbringer -- it's going to have to be less to do with character-stuffing and art (as is currently the case with Beast Wars.) If it turns out to be Dark Ages II then the bottom's going to fall out of this continuity pretty damn quickly.

Therefore I'm hoping for an ending to the Infiltration arc that establishes the status quo on Earth, establishes why the Transformers are sticking around for there to be an Escalation, and for Stormbringer to do something. Thus far I'm a little worried about the heavily stylised wreathed-in-flames thing... it seems done for appearance rather than any real reason, and I don't want an art-wank series with splash-page panels everwhere. Reminders of Dreamwave make me cringe.

Quote:
Not really an excuse for trotting out the same old suspects each time,
It's the only reason that makes sense -- giving further characterisation to those characters who received good setup and became popular previously, but who were never really developed. It means we get Bumblebee as competent from the get-go, without having to pass through the annoying-kid-brother phase.

Quote:
Which beggars the question, why bother?
I think the 16 page preview was pretty honest about what would follow, but more importantly gave retailers a reason to order #1 of a TF book after the problems with DW and gave them the two-month gap for them to put in orders. #0 and #1 would easily merge, certainly. If it were feasible to release #1 and then leave a big publishing gap, that would have been an alternative. It wasn't.

In #2 we get the setup of Decepticons actually using deception, a battle, the Autobots maintaining strict separation from world populations -- no cosying up to oil barons whilst expecting governments to sit around and do nothing, and the information that other worlds have been infiltrated and lost. It's in no way light on ideas, and there's a fight for those who like that sort of thing. Except it seems some people would rather that fairly meaningless exchange of blows and laser blasts was conducted in a way that meant they could see robot heads.

...

Thunderwing's pretty ineffectual in the b&w strips, but as in the US ones, he's one of the few insights into Decepticon society we get. Being named a Decepticon leader is found to be a rite of passage, and high command basically give their nutso young officers tasks to do to keep them busy. After all, the war has pretty much been won: the Autobots are nothing but a sporadic guerilla threat. Of course he has no bigger plans for the matrix than to use it as a weapon. He's over-confident and treats his troops as completely expendable. He's a petty warlord, one of the relics Jhiaxus talks about.

Quote:
Considering the scant content, it feels more like the first episode of a TV show to me.
Whilst a quick read, I've gotten a lot of re-reads from each issue so far. Currently I want some exposition from Megatron, and more indication of what Starscream's up to that could be so valuable -- covers and solicits for #5 suggest I'm going to get that. Excitement and curiosity about what's going to happen next and where things will end up is a lot more than I've had for a TF comic since the four-page preview of War Within.

...

@ Shockwav:
Quote:
his dialogue is at times awful.
It's overblown. That's signature. As above, I'd agree there's redundancy, but there'd be more bitching about letting the art tell the story. Art-led's definitely something I'm happy to see, for about the first time ever.

Blitwing's a smug git given to unnecessary bravado, so it fits the character if not the situation...

Quote:
a character that is so emotionally charged, you would swear that its a human in robots clothing who has seen a ghost or is staring death in the face. He even did this to Prowl at the end of the Marvel run. Prowl!
Grimlock is fairly calm and logical -- just over-confident and apt to be wrong about choosing a time to act. He doesn't see things as threats. Prowl is in keeping with Furman's Prowl for those who'd read UK stories (particularly the later annual profiles) but possibly OOC to US readers. Mind, Grimlock's OOC for US readers because he returns from deactivation as a Pretender and doesn't immediately reach for a crown. The mass deactivation/reactivation is used as the plot point with which to rewrite, helped by the Underbase being a distant memory for most readers.
 
Denyer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2006-04-18, 04:55 PM   #182
Aardvark
...
 
Aardvark's Avatar
 
Wales? O___o
Default

Well in fairness, there hasn't nor will there ever be an actual superbly written Transformers comic, in its own right as a piece of literature etc etc. Big toy robots don't make for classic novels and whatnot, still transformers fans complain so much yet what ever it is we still love the damn things. I know I do.

It is true Furman needs direction. The constraints of having to reprint US comics are what lead to the top stories he wrote for the UK comics. Now that he doesn't have those constraints of that nor Hasbro breathing down his neck the battle chargers will suffice as cutting edge. This maybe true in many cases however Furman has used the main Autobots seen thus far many a time. Furman was never great for human characters, the Neo-knights are just as bad as the mechanic, but Infiltration has been good enough. The characters appear a tad too forced into the hip and trendy youth of today kind of like a granddad rapping.
Anyway characters a lot of people back on fondly are not that great, examples being;

Wreckers-Great idea-Cool Team-But not even the more featured wreckers ala Broadside recieved little if any proper characterisation

Thunderwing-Well I wouldn't go to the extreme hatred of Cliffjumper but he did do very little. Why he became doesn't really matter but what he did do when featured as a leader does and that wasn’t too much. Any of the past leaders could have filled his boots...Ratbat possessed by the matrix...fan fic in the making .

Thunderwing doesn't give me that same sickening feeling that the likes of Starscream, Megatron, Galvatron, Unicron give me. Sure he appeared in DW but he doesn't have that tired feel. It’s probably down to actual sheer lack of characterisation he actually was given. Lets hope we something a little different. Wonder if he's in charge of the Cybertronian cons. Make a change from the Shockwave failsafe. I hope I'm wrong but Stormbringer looks like a big plague/virus/gain super power type story. I sure the hell hope its not.

Still I'd like to see new takes on the Pretenders {and also Headmasters etc} rather then just having a load of weirdly dressed robots. Maybe Stormbringer is about Pretenders...nah
 

-Alex???
Aardvark is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2006-04-18, 05:05 PM   #183
Commander Shockwav
Gestalt
 
Commander Shockwav's Avatar
 
Virginia, USA
Default

Quote:
Originally posted by Cliffjumper
[B]
It strikes me as a slightly daft move... it could cost a lot of casual readers... On the face of it, it could be a lose-lose situation - Infiltration could not go anywhere, and lots of people see the "end" of the series as a good place to stop; Infiltration could pick up the pace, really get somewhere good as opposed to vaguely satisfactory, and BAM!, we're on Cybertron, possibly with the same plodding build-up.
This move I don't understand by IDW. Escalation should be released along with Stormbringer, because it will add to the significance of what's happened in Infiltration.

I don't want the same thing to happen to Infiltration that happened to Sarracinni's first story arc with DW.

Having said that, if I can only have one, it would easily be Stormbringer.
 
Commander Shockwav is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2006-04-18, 05:08 PM   #184
Commander Shockwav
Gestalt
 
Commander Shockwav's Avatar
 
Virginia, USA
Default

Quote:
Originally posted by Aardvark
Well in fairness, there hasn't nor will there ever be an actual superbly written Transformers comic, in its own right as a piece of literature etc etc.
Marvel Transformers #7 and #8 were masterpieces.

They are the only issues I have forced general comic friends of mine to read, after which they said it was very good.

Which brings me to Ratchet in this current story arc. This ain't the Ratchet I know and love. The Ratchet I love is the battle-newbie who relied on brains rather than brawn. In Infiltration, Ratchet is pretty formidable. To me, its just poor character choice by Furman for this role, not just because of how I viewed Ratchet before, but also one would not expect a medic to be running around like that blasting Decepticons.

Had it been Jazz, it would have fit with the role. But we all know the drill. New continuity, new take.
 

Last edited by Commander Shockwav; 2006-04-18 at 05:12 PM.
Commander Shockwav is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2006-04-18, 05:13 PM   #185
Aardvark
...
 
Aardvark's Avatar
 
Wales? O___o
Default

Ratchet is a poor choice. He reminds me of that goddng doctor from lost. If Furman is going for the hero type he might as well give us Hotrod (shudder) but that would conflict with macho Bumblebee
Anyway I'm in a bad mood today. My last comment was Aatad harsh seeing as I've invested so much in transformers. Oh well tomorrow I will say that Transformers is the single greatest piece of literature ever written but for the moment until I find the prick that robbed my mobile phone I'm going on the rampage
There have been good transformers comics in their own right, many fantastic comics in terms of transformers and seeing as I like transformers so much the former statemnet doesn't really apply to me.
 

-Alex???

Last edited by Aardvark; 2006-04-18 at 05:18 PM.
Aardvark is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2006-04-18, 05:30 PM   #186
Denyer
Shooty Dog Thing
 
Denyer's Avatar
 
UK
Default

Quote:
Originally posted by Aardvark
Well in fairness, there hasn't nor will there ever be an actual superbly written Transformers comic, in its own right as a piece of literature etc etc. Big toy robots don't make for classic novels
Not Hasbro-licensed ones, anyway. As for 'superb' issues I'd throw out G2 #1 as an answer. Complete redefinition of what we knew, some excellent dialogue and art. G2 as a whole is an only slightly padded arc.

Quote:
Originally posted by Commander Shockwav
Marvel Transformers #7 and #8 were masterpieces.
Half of each issue is setup stuff for other stories. They boil down into a single pretty classic issue, but as printed they're nowhere near a masterpiece.

Quote:
Originally posted by Commander Shockwav
if I can only have one, it would easily be Stormbringer.
I'd choose Escalation, but I'll give Stormbringer a fair shot and hope it doesn't turn into War Within Redux. I'll give Evolutions a shot, despite usual misgivings about alt-universes/crossovers. The simple difference that Stormbringer is part of the main story makes it more compelling than the latter.

Quote:
Originally posted by Commander Shockwav
one would not expect a medic to be running around like that blasting Decepticons.
Field medic. Look at the situation as regards any unit dropped into deep cover -- Vietnam or similar. If you're upright and moving you know how to use a gun and will, whatever personal qualms about violence.
 
Denyer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2006-04-18, 05:46 PM   #187
Cliffjumper
Cellar Door
 
Cliffjumper's Avatar
 
Lightbulb

See, personally I think Furman generally works better under constraint... There's something innately pretentious about Infiltration that I can't put my finger on, as if it's daring to get us to call it on a lack of such-and-such before it looks smug and says "You obviously don't get it, do you?".

As I've said, there's not much about the series I dislike, and Infiltration could still be a corker (I can't stress enough that I want to like this comic very, very badly). Stormbringer worries me... two concurrent series would work better, but how about the CRAZY idea of having action from both Cybertron and Earth in the same comic? What decent reason is there for not doing that? Bear in mind, the usual suspects who'll accuse me of double standards, that I don't like "The Smelting Pool" that much - a story lionised by American fans who dropped the book when Prime got blown up. I think for a six-month story just one arc in, ignoring much of what's been built up except maybe some themes (like Decepticon Conquest and there being a situation on Earth) could be terminal... The story's been moving slowly, there are far too many panels - I'd rather clunky, yet useful, dialogue over a nine-page car chase any day of the week. Especially a car chase that wasn't especially good...

I don't think I could name exactly what I wanted from the comic, or whether that'd be any more satisfactory to anyone else if I could, I just haven't massively enjoyed the thing. The "enk" sounds felt stupid, regardless what justification can be brought in... Juxtaposing "realist" dialogue with an idiot with a comedy surname who's manged to set up a wesbite on ROBOT ALIEN INVASION is a bit of a black art, and in that respect Furman's proved conclusively he's not an Ellis or a Millar. If the problem is that there'd be a lot of dialogue-free panels, cut down on the number of panels, especially for a fairly simple sequence like someone shooting down a jet - I personally feel fewer frames would have given the sequence more punch and impact, as it read it seemed to take Blitwing five minutes to actually hit the ground... Something like Infiltration would work better for me with short, sharp action sequences - it'd certainly be a more realistic interpretation of war as boredom broken by brief intervals of violence... The stripped-down verbals don't mix well with overblown, over-choreographed fight scenes.

IDW have also tapped into a DW trait (albeit to a smaller intent), that of building up to something we know is going to happen... We all knew Megatron was going to turn up, so why does an issue build up to his appearance? This is why, in some ways, I prefer the "all in place in Issue 1" approach, because there aren't cheap shots like that.

The Marvel original series went somewhere pretty quickly - plot developments happen at a nice pace, and overall had a fair amount of dimension. Granted, some of the plots were outright bad, but then we have little proof IDW's won't turn out that way... We got ground characterisation for a number of Transformers (Bumblebee, Jazz, Op, Shockers etc.) and a couple of humans (Sparkplug and Buster)... Also, Marvel didn't have past characterisation to draw on or play against. We can guess at framework profiles for many characters as soon as they appear in most new series, and it's thus possible to imbue someone like Blitzwing with considerably more depth than their dialogue and actions give them (nice of Simon to have Ratchet dictating Blitzwing's tech spec for the slow crowd, though ), while at the same time you can toy with perceptions (as Sarracini gamely tried with Starscream in Armada, before Furman ****ed it up).

The problem with Ratchet is we've already seen him do this sort of "on his own" operating while judgling his principles and inexperience before, and it feels kinda like a retread. Again it offers characterisation shorthand, as much of the readership will know that Ratchet's the level-headed guy who probably has the most balanced view of the situation... and that seems to have translated into him being quite a human character.
 
Cliffjumper is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2006-04-18, 06:18 PM   #188
Commander Shockwav
Gestalt
 
Commander Shockwav's Avatar
 
Virginia, USA
Default

Quote:
Originally posted by Cliffjumper
[B]The story's been moving slowly, there are far too many panels - B]
Actually, I think there are too few panels. Just compare it with other titles, and you'll see what I mean.

The problem is the USE of the panels and the lack of story to fill them.
 
Commander Shockwav is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2006-04-18, 06:21 PM   #189
Cliffjumper
Cellar Door
 
Cliffjumper's Avatar
 
Red face

Yeh, minor error on my part... I meant too few panels per page.


Okay, so that wasn't a minor error
 
Cliffjumper is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2006-04-18, 06:44 PM   #190
Halfshell
Magical Truthsaying Turtle
 
Halfshell's Avatar
 
Don't complain to me. I don't care.
Default

Right. I finally got this.

... and to be honest, I really can't tell the difference between now and before I got this.

I spent ten minutes (okay, I stopped halfway through to have a text conversation with my sister, but still - ten minutes) discovering that... dum dum dum... Megatron is in the base!

... okay. Fine. I sort of guessed that due to the whole roster panel thing. It's like when American drama series stick the big final frame surprise cliffhanger guest star's name in the credits at the beginning of the episode. Woooo no drama, because I've just spent the entire time waiting for him to turn up.

This comic's been decompressed to death. Seriously, I could have just received a scrap of paper that said "Do the Decepticons know Megatron is in there or not?!11one" and it would have accomplished the same thing as that issue.

Gotta agree with BumbleWillow.

Bored now.
 

Halfshell is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2006-04-18, 06:44 PM   #191
Aardvark
...
 
Aardvark's Avatar
 
Wales? O___o
Smile

Quote:
Originally posted by Cliffjumper
See, personally I think Furman generally works better under constraint...
Though I generally agree with this statement I would also say that his later US and G2 work did not suffer edure many constraints and much of this is IMO Furman at his best. His recent work seems very self reflective, looking back and trying to build on his former glories rather then creating new ones.

I too desperately want to like the series and for the most part I have liked it but I feel it's missing the fun factor. It’s had some great scenes so far but they're so small and inconsequential.


Edit: Because the threads are merged I thought I'd edit a really old post and just write something hilariously witty such as Chuck Norris is a blah blah blah etc etc...

Ahem...sorry. The first person to notice this receives an Internet toffee
 

-Alex???

Last edited by Aardvark; 2006-07-02 at 08:31 PM.
Aardvark is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2006-04-18, 06:48 PM   #192
Denyer
Shooty Dog Thing
 
Denyer's Avatar
 
UK
Smile

Quote:
Originally posted by Cliffjumper
See, personally I think Furman generally works better under constraint... There's something innately pretentious about Infiltration that I can't put my finger on
Yeah, there's something innately pretentious about sticking Ultimate in front of existing series titles too, and it seems a fair analogue. Not a lot actually happens in The Ultimates #1-6, it's mostly ideas. In the second half the gloves come off (what I'm hoping for Escalation, really) and then volume two... erm, pisses away the novelty of there only being a few characters and the collosal effort of mobilising a team, monthly fights become run-of-the-mill backdrop and it goes to a psychological revelation-based plot that won't stand up to re-reading. Maybe we can avoid the latter.

Quote:
Originally posted by Cliffjumper
Bear in mind, the usual suspects who'll accuse me of double standards, that I don't like "The Smelting Pool" that much - a story lionised by American fans who dropped the book when Prime got blown up.
I think the majority of the original US comic gets overhyped until the final arc, really, although some of it is backlash to years of people saying it was unredeemable.

Quote:
Originally posted by Cliffjumper
I think for a six-month story just one arc in, ignoring much of what's been built up except maybe some themes (like Decepticon Conquest and there being a situation on Earth) could be terminal... The story's been moving slowly, there are far too many panels
The 'Cons need to be portrayed as being as effective as they've been built up to be, which could mean that they're numerically underdogs -- or that there are more powerful alien forces around that would gobble them up or move in to take the spoils from other planets. They're forced to use infiltration, certainly.

The pace here I'm finding enjoyable enough -- certainly encouraging to go back and pick up all of the detail, but I am expecting it to necessarily step up a couple of notches in Escalation, with more characters gaining less panel time each. Thus, I'm going to enjoy the film-framing whilst it's justifiable.

Quote:
Originally posted by Cliffjumper
IDW have also tapped into a DW trait (albeit to a smaller intent), that of building up to something we know is going to happen... We all knew Megatron was going to turn up
But not exactly what he's doing...

This is, overwhelmingly, going to be a problem with advance solicited issues. If people stick to the next issue blurb at the end of comics (and I like both the opportunity to see lineart and the short teaser text) rather than deliberately choosing to spoil themselves with solicits and covers, more surprises will follow.

With much of Dreamwave, I felt the solicits were a fair substitute for actually reading many of the issues. Having some new characters has definitely helped, and the revelations about the Decepticon backstory haven't made it into the solicits, so they still packed punch.

Quote:
Originally posted by Cliffjumper
The Marvel original series went somewhere pretty quickly - plot developments happen at a nice pace, and overall had a fair amount of dimension. Granted, some of the plots were outright bad
Yeah, if it had gone somewhere I'd actually thought "wow" about occasionally, I'd have more nice things to say about it... that was mostly happening in the UK title, though, with punchy stories such as Wrath of... Those had a solid balance of dialogue and twists. The US title by comparison really lacked dynamics.

Quote:
Originally posted by Cliffjumper
we have little proof IDW's won't turn out that way
Other than it being decent so far. There's been nothing mindboggingly camp such as a couple of the stories selected for the Generations retrospective.

Quote:
Originally posted by Cliffjumper
The problem with Ratchet is we've already seen him do this sort of "on his own" operating while judgling his principles and inexperience before, and it feels kinda like a retread.
I suspect that of a few tens of thousands of readers, we've read everything else a lot more recently than most, if at all. Arguably, and taking into account some of the better fan writing out there as well, there isn't much entirely new to be had -- it's more a case of assembling characters in the best way possible, without slips, and this time round not buggering it up with huge inconsistencies (the Budiansky/Furman dichotomy with characters, DWG1v1 getting retconned out, etc.) This time nobody has to get nailed to anything, to butcher that bit from the opening of Hitchhiker's...
 
Denyer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2006-04-18, 08:20 PM   #193
Cliffjumper
Cellar Door
 
Cliffjumper's Avatar
 
Default

Quote:
Originally posted by Denyer
Yeah, there's something innately pretentious about sticking Ultimate in front of existing series titles too, and it seems a fair analogue.
And I'd agree, with the caveat that the ideas in The Ultimates were considerably better, and a realistic setting wasn't spoilt by relatively unbelievable people (little things like a guy having the surname O'Nion jerk you out of it too much).

Quote:
I think the majority of the original US comic gets overhyped until the final arc, really, although some of it is backlash to years of people saying it was unredeemable.
Yeh, the circle of evaluation, eh? Part of it's exclusivity, like music. People are all up for championing something when it's the underdog, and when it gets the championship, they turn on it. Humans, gotta love them. Well, if you want to remain out of jail, anyway...

Quote:
But not exactly what he's doing...
He's providing a desperate attempt to keep people interestred enough to buy #5, surely? Why does he have to appear on the last page? Why not give us an inkling of what he's doing, or something?

Quote:
This is, overwhelmingly, going to be a problem with advance solicited issues. If people stick to the next issue blurb at the end of comics (and I like both the opportunity to see lineart and the short teaser text) rather than deliberately choosing to spoil themselves with solicits and covers, more surprises will follow.
I've ignored much of the promotion. I knew he was going to appear for three reasons - 1. It's G1 2. His not-especially-well-masked silhouette has been inside the front cover for four issues 3. His face was on the inside cover of #4. Having Megatron appear in a Transformers nostalgia comic (revisionist, yes, still a nostalgia title though) is never, ever going to be a surprise, it's just a matter of when, and whether it'll be utilised as a cheap cliffhanger.

And I hated that issue of the Ultimates ending with Captain America in his 'classic' costume. I actually hated it that bit more, because Ultimates was going better, Cap had already starred in #1, and because the WW2 costume was ****ing awesome.

Quote:
Other than it being decent so far. There's been nothing mindboggingly camp such as a couple of the stories selected for the Generations retrospective.
A 1980s kids comic is camp compared to a 21st century "hip" "art" comic? Sir, thou shocketh me! Most of the early Marvel issues have stories in their own right (even the limited series ones tended to have some sort of closure... you've got the How They Got to Earth Issue, The Big Fight Issue, The Spider-Man issue and The Big fight issue). Infiltration feels like fragments of a graphic novel. Actually, it sort of reminds me of Marvels. We're getting fragments of a story told from an outsider's perspective... Now, Marvels works because most people who'd pick it up will be familiar with the comics it's set around...

Quote:
I suspect that of a few tens of thousands of readers, we've read everything else a lot more recently than most, if at all.


That d, I still don't see why I should like Infiltration... As I've said elsewhere, it isn't aimed at me, but that doesn't mean I can't feel disappointed with it. At the time of writing (and can I please stress again that I really hope someone can stuff this post up my arse at some point in the future, preferably about four weeks' time when #5 is actually good) the series hasn't done much except make me a bit annoyed when I'm light on money at the end of a month, in the same way I regret impulse-buying DVDs I'll never watch.

EDIT: Please don't reply for at least 3 minutes, I need to go to bed. Either that, or be less fun to debate stuff with. I dunno, call me gay or something.
 

Last edited by Cliffjumper; 2006-04-18 at 08:25 PM.
Cliffjumper is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2006-04-19, 03:40 PM   #194
inflatable dalek
Duke of Kidderminster
 
inflatable dalek's Avatar
 
Kidderminster UK
Talking

Quote:
Originally posted by Brendocon
Gotta agree with BumbleWillow.

Bored now.
I actually missed that first time I read it- Considering his hologram is a ging are we meant to be seeing Bumbles as played by Alyson? No wonder Denyer likes it.

Shouldn't Megatron (and did his new Tank body remind anyone else of SuperMegatron(sic?) from the Zone Magna?) have three of four guards with him everywhere he goes? I certainly would if half my troops were allways after my job.
 
inflatable dalek is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2006-04-19, 03:49 PM   #195
Aardvark
...
 
Aardvark's Avatar
 
Wales? O___o
Default

Quote:
Originally posted by inflatable dalek
I actually missed that first time I read it- Considering his hologram is a ging are we meant to be seeing Bumbles as played by Alyson? No wonder Denyer likes it.

Shouldn't Megatron (and did his new Tank body remind anyone else of SuperMegatron(sic?) from the Zone Magna?) have three of four guards with him everywhere he goes? I certainly would if half my troops were allways after my job.
Though its not a continuation of G2 I took it for granted that the “Because I'm an idiot that's why!" statement applies to Infiltration Megatron.
 

-Alex???
Aardvark is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2006-04-19, 04:04 PM   #196
inflatable dalek
Duke of Kidderminster
 
inflatable dalek's Avatar
 
Kidderminster UK
Red face

Quote:
Originally posted by Aardvark
Though its not a continuation of G2 I took it for granted that the “Because I'm an idiot that's why!" statement applies to Infiltration Megatron.
So I'm being nieve in hoping that they'll have used the fresh start to give him soime brains?

Does anyone know what sort of tank he's meant to turn into? Or is it supposed to be a Cybertronian mode?
 
inflatable dalek is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2006-04-19, 04:32 PM   #197
Aardvark
...
 
Aardvark's Avatar
 
Wales? O___o
Wink

DW's "fresh start" didn't make him much smarter. Far as I know its a Cybertronian mode.
 

-Alex???
Aardvark is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2006-04-20, 06:14 AM   #198
Denyer
Shooty Dog Thing
 
Denyer's Avatar
 
UK
Smile

Quote:
a realistic setting wasn't spoilt by relatively unbelievable people (little things like a guy having the surname O'Nion jerk you out of it
A geek whose personal shame is his name and who got picked on for it is unrealistic? I can see what you're saying a little with Furman being smug -- Hunter's the only one with a chip on his shoulder, no-one else has passed comment -- but it's peccadilloes like this that do create a sense of characters being real. It's something I've long disliked about hero comics -- beyond the generics, such as "X is a student, his father disapproves of mutants" there aren't a lot of details on offer for most characters, and that only gets exaggerated for non-human characters... whether it's the guy's favourite colour, allergy to cats or love of Spanish marmalade. I'd like some background for TFs, too... presumably there are periods of simply passing time whilst monitoring the other side. Doing it without getting silly is more difficult for TFs, admittedly.

Quote:
He's providing a desperate attempt to keep people interestred enough to buy #5, surely?
Judging by most of the responses I've seen, the fight breaking out topside did that.

By "doing" -- who he's communicating with, to what end... having more than "Yes. Especially Cybertron." to work with would be useful... my suspicion is that Astrotrain has been either a spy in Starscream's camp or is responsible for Megatron's arrival and the conversation is regarding a successful campaign elsewhere.

Megatron's place in Decepticon hierarchy this time around hasn't yet been established, but we know both he and Prime are far enough removed and engaged in other things for neither to spend time on Earth without a compelling readon. Whether they're simply battlefield commanders or there's some semblance of government on Cybertron will have implications for everything else.

His simply being there isn't the cliffhanger -- it's the situation Verity (and by echo, the world) is in, by virtue of that arrival. How well that duality comes across is debatable, though the Autobots certainly aren't anxious for the guy to get involved, emphasised by the Ark scene after Prowl brushes Ratchet off.

Quote:
A 1980s kids comic is camp compared to a 21st century "hip" "art" comic?
You know what I mean -- 'Shooting Star' and 'Rock and Roll Out' are excessively idiosyncratic choices. "Quirky" is the most polite way to describe them. Large gobs of the rest (Ratchet in 'Warrior School' with the fire/wood thing, the stilted speech in the original arc) are too... in the "outright bad" category fairly often. We haven't seen anything to suggest IDW's current arc will "turn out that way", to go back to the original point made...

Predictions / general comments... #5 needs some exposition from Starscream. Is it possible that Ratchet's corpse / deactivated body will be retrieved by the M corporation? Is it possible IDW are bluffing that none of the humans will die? Am I just a bit too eager to see characters permanently written out for sake of dramatic consequence? (But after some grounding dialogue, rather than just flinging Super- uh, the Aerialbots to his^P^P^Ptheir deaths without any setup to make us give a damn. Ratchet is therefore current strongest TF contender.)

Quote:
Bored now.
Ah. Right. Finally twigged what people were going on about with the "Buffy quote" comment.

Quote:
did his new Tank body remind anyone else of SuperMegatron(sic?) from the Zone Magna?
The placement of the red, certainly. He probably isn't going to get a gun mode until Escalation, would be my guess. With the holo-avatars there's actually a decent enough reason to pick that mode... he can effectively carry/wield himself, and possibly cloak himself from sensors (metal detectors, etc) in a smaller form. For some reason, I can see him having either a grey-haired security guard as an av (George Peppard?) or the T1000. Something in uniform, anyway.
 
Denyer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2006-04-20, 02:59 PM   #199
Cliffjumper
Cellar Door
 
Cliffjumper's Avatar
 
Smile

Quote:
Originally posted by Denyer
A geek whose personal shame is his name and who got picked on for it is unrealistic? I can see what you're saying a little with Furman being smug -- Hunter's the only one with a chip on his shoulder, no-one else has passed comment -- but it's peccadilloes like this that do create a sense of characters being real.
It just feels too much like the joke came first, and everything else later. More time seems to have gone on thinking up a comedy surname (doubtless it's Furman's ker-azy take on none of the humans in TF history having sensible names, and he's SUBVERTING TEH GENRE or somesuch) that on anything else... We don't really know much about Hunter beyond the initial infodump, beyond that he's not as much of an attention whore as Avril.

Quote:
It's something I've long disliked about hero comics -- beyond the generics, such as "X is a student, his father disapproves of mutants" there aren't a lot of details on offer for most characters, and that only gets exaggerated for non-human characters... whether it's the guy's favourite colour, allergy to cats or love of Spanish marmalade.
I'd seriously say you've been reading the wrong comics... I could sit down and research that, but runs like Peter David on X-Factor and Kurt Busiek on Avengers are full of that stuff. The trick is to make us care whether Guido likes grey poupon or not.

Quote:
I'd like some background for TFs, too... presumably there are periods of simply passing time whilst monitoring the other side. Doing it without getting silly is more difficult for TFs, admittedly.
I'd agree... I think the profiles did this in places, but it's kinda hard to write in a non-prose story without having characters just spouting "I like <stuff>" statements for no readily apparent reason. It's very difficult to do for any characters without being leaden, and with TFs it'd be even harder as we can't see their bookshelves or whatever.


Judging by most of the responses I've seen, the fight breaking out topside did that.

Quote:
We haven't seen anything to suggest IDW's current arc will "turn out that way", to go back to the original point made...
The basic problem with you and me debating this is that if Infiltration carries on as it's been going you'll probably be quite happy, and I won't be

Quote:
Is it possible that Ratchet's corpse / deactivated body will be retrieved by the M corporation?
Do we know he's dead/deactivated, though? Personally, I think in some ways it'd be great if he was... In some ways, the problem with with Transformers in a battle is that they're always shown to be hard to kill (I suppose, aside from the outside economical pressure, to justify how a war can last millions of years). While I don't really want them to be BIG HUMANS or anything, the idea that they can be killed with relative ease by a similar-bracket TF would be a nice idea. The problem otherwise is that they survive all kinds of crap, and then when the Underbase/Movie turns up, it feels totally artificial.

Quote:
Is it possible IDW are bluffing that none of the humans will die?
I tihnk it'd be a mistake any time soon... we don't know enough about Hunter or The Other One for it to be anything other than a cheap way of upping the stakes, and for Avril, well, Furman's built up her background too much to have the sense to do something so dramatic.
 
Cliffjumper is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2006-04-21, 10:37 AM   #200
inflatable dalek
Duke of Kidderminster
 
inflatable dalek's Avatar
 
Kidderminster UK
Default

Quote:
Originally posted by Denyer
Ah. Right. Finally twigged what people were going on about with the "Buffy quote" comment.
Good grief- slow today aren't we?

Quote:
I tihnk it'd be a mistake any time soon... we don't know enough about Hunter or The Other One for it to be anything other than a cheap way of upping the stakes, and for Avril, well, Furman's built up her background too much to have the sense to do something so dramatic.

I can see a big target over Jimmy- Furman's thinking being "Spike/Buster was a mechanics so if we kill a charecter who is him in all but name the audience will be shocked!".
 
inflatable dalek is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT. The time now is 10:46 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
 
 
[the-hub.co.uk]
[transfans.co.uk]
[oneshallstand]
[unicron.com]
[counter-x.net]
[ntfa.net]
[allspark.com]
[transformertoys.co.uk]
[tfu.info]
[botchthecrab.com]
[obscure_tf]
[tfradio.net]
 

[TFArchive button]
Link graphics...

BOOKMARK US
Or in FF, hit Ctrl+D.