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Old 2006-06-25, 07:44 PM   #21
Cliffjumper
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Because, of course, there's no possibility that a middle way would work. This actually really pisses me off. Person A criticises Infiltration, Person B replies by mocking Dreamwave/Marvel/Blackthorne/3H/Fleetway/Devil's Due/That Bit Of Art Joe Madieura Did A While Back Which Was Quite Big News At The Time. People pointing out the (usually already acknowledged) limitations of older comics does not make Infiltration a masterpiece.
 
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Old 2006-06-25, 07:55 PM   #22
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its not a masterpiece altogher but how well stormbringer ties in with it thats going to show its full store telling power.
 
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Old 2006-06-25, 07:58 PM   #23
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Indeed. Just different (and in some opinions, better) than much of the stuff trotted out under the banner of 'Transformers'.

Infilitration on its own isn't going down in history as any form of classic. Neither are T2006, War Within, US #75, UK #98 or G2 #1. DC might get a nod for its Big Three and Kirby, Marvel for the mutant and weirdalienrays concepts and Stan Lee.
 
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Old 2006-06-25, 08:01 PM   #24
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Again with the extremes. I'm not asking for something that's going to go down in history. I'm asking for a really good comic. It's not actually impossible, I have scores of the things.

Quote:
Originally posted by starscreamjericho
its not a masterpiece altogher but how well stormbringer ties in with it thats going to show its full store telling power.
So the "just wait until things get going in the second half of Infiltration" argument has been pushed back to "just wait until things get going in Stormbringer". Wonderful, that. The new TF comic is, in actuality, the England football team. Marvellous.
 
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Old 2006-06-25, 08:11 PM   #25
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Quote:
Originally posted by starscreamjericho
its not a masterpiece altogher but how well stormbringer ties in with it thats going to show its full store telling power.
It needs to be a story in its own right as well.

And personally, I'd say it is -- like the first chunk of any Ultimate-style comic, we have the scene setting. Rather than watch a team being put together and see the first mission, it's what TFs are doing on Earth (and how war breaks out here) from a human perspective.
 
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Old 2006-06-25, 10:09 PM   #26
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This is the intro to a new series, like I said before, so it is going to be slow and it is going to be full of little things to watch out for (no - not Micromasters). Give peace a chance! Er - give this piece a chance! These are the raindrops that means the storm is coming and someone is going to get wet in the TF universe and someone is going to moan our in ours. Hey, one man's meat is another's poison.

And this ain't slow compared to some stuff I have read. Lordy, the whole recent 'Ultimate Extinction' could have been done in half the number of pages.
 
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Old 2006-06-26, 12:14 AM   #27
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i love the fact they'er taking it slow and showing the buliding of a good story. and putting the spot light on unlikly guys (runamuck and runabout i was excited to see them) taking more of a stand out role. i really liked how op and megs didn't show up until the end. this book will be a great story as it unfolds we just got to it grow.
 
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Old 2006-06-26, 06:17 AM   #28
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yup yup

dont at all look at Infiltration as its own little mini-series or something

its just the first chapter of many to come. And trust me, future chapters are lookin dang good


Infiltration does its job in setting things up. We start on Earth, first we think its the same old story but then Prime and Megs arent there. Its just a couple small little squads. Then we learn that this war isnt just confined to Earth like it has always been in other continuities. We learn that there's other teams or "infiltration units" on countless other planets. Really widening the scope of the war and putting some good importance on Prime and Megs. I mean, if they're off leading this intergalactic civil war, then what is it that draws them to Earth in particular? what causes the highest ranking officers of both sides to just up and leave to attend to one measely planet amongst a sea of others? these are the things Infiltration is informing us of. This is what its making us ask, and frankly its doing well.

Soon as Infiltration is over, end Chapter 1 of this epic story that is Transformers. Pick up Stormbringer and begin chapter 2, which only gets better

all in all i'm really really excited. If you go looking at infiltration as a single thing, you definately wont be impressed, but its a needed little arc to introduce us to this grand new universe Simon/IDWs setting up. One i really consider the best interpretation of the franchise yet

[and im not saying that just because im coloring some of the books. all that behind, this is some seriously cool stuff happenin here in the IDW-verse]


Right now Infiltration is just letting you tread water before making you deep sea dive in Stormbringer/future chapters to come
 
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Old 2006-06-26, 08:45 AM   #29
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Quote:
Originally posted by DCJosh
dont at all look at Infiltration as its own little mini-series or something

its just the first chapter of many to come. And trust me, future chapters are lookin dang good

-snip-
I understand what you're saying, but even for me (who has liked the slowly starting story) this sounds irritating. If I import and buy 6˝ issues which is marketed as a six issue miniseries, I damn well want to have a story told in those six issues, not just scene setting.
 
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Old 2006-06-26, 08:45 AM   #30
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Double post, sorry.
 

Last edited by Osku; 2006-06-26 at 08:49 AM.
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Old 2006-06-26, 10:57 AM   #31
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Quote:
Originally posted by DCJosh

all in all i'm really really excited. If you go looking at infiltration as a single thing, you definately wont be impressed, but its a needed little arc to introduce us to this grand new universe Simon/IDWs setting up. One i really consider the best interpretation of the franchise yet
The thing is we don't have the benefit of hindsight, we don't have the TPB in our grubby little paws and obviously we haven't read the future arcs such as Stormbringer. All I can go on is what Infiltration has shown us thus far and in that respect I do view it as a single piece.

Furthermore it most certainly isn't a "little" arc; As Osku said its 6˝ issues and we've also had to put up with delays (Though to be fair that has nothing to do with the content of the issues)

At any rate I've enjoyed what I've seen, whether there's been enough of it is another question (The answer my friend is no…). Furman's script is rather good; I like how he's combined some genuinely great dialogue with some enoyably fluffy camp moments (“Lock and load”, “I'm ready for my medicine”) I find that keeps it from being too serious and thankfully the camp side of the script is by no means frequent enough to turn Infiltration into some ludicrous farce

The action scenes have been executed well, I really don’t have much of a problem with the humans other than the amount of panel time they receive and it does have a subtle charm. Of coarse lots of the small details that are superb and then there’s the aspects of Infiltration that are “not”. But I’m not going to delve into the nitty-gritty…

So it may be an indication of the great things to come and I’ve found that its one of those comics that get better the more you read it, but until I have the benefit of hindsight I do have to view this as a single piece and if I’m expected to be somewhat unimpressed because of this well let’s just say that I find that hard to swallow given that I’ve been collecting this series over an agonisingly, extended period of time and furthermore forked out a large chunk of my spare cash not to mention the Stormbringer adverts and teasers which basically say “Don’t worry its not Infiltration” compounding any gripes I may have

Finally my biggest gripe is this Josh guy I mean have you seen his colours…

Edit: I added a wink to indicate I'm joking in that last sentence.
 

Last edited by Aardvark; 2006-06-26 at 12:25 PM.
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Old 2006-06-26, 11:56 AM   #32
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Quote:
Originally posted by DCJosh
Right now Infiltration is just letting you tread water
If by "tread water" you mean the story's based more on characters talking and describing things than stuff blowing up.

Quote:
Originally posted by Aardvark
my biggest gripe is this Josh guy I mean have you seen his colours
Well, on Beast Wars -- it's difficult to tell which pages of Infiltration are by him, because it's done to fit an existing style. Rauch is the guy doing the vast majority of Infiltration, and quite sloppily at times IMO.

Quote:
Originally posted by Aardvark
Stormbringer adverts and teasers which basically say “Don’t worry its not Infiltration”
Infiltration being "= humans" hasn't actually been the case going by panel time.
 
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Old 2006-06-26, 01:33 PM   #33
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Quote:
Originally posted by Denyer
If by "tread water" you mean the story's based more on characters talking and describing things than stuff blowing up.
Really? To be honest, there's not even been a huge amount of that. Lots of pretty full and double page splashes.
 
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Old 2006-06-26, 01:51 PM   #34
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Quote:
Originally posted by Angelophile
double page splashes.
Two in fact, unless I'm missing them. One of which was in the preview, the other in #3. Apparently they stick in the memory, which was presumably the intention.

(And leafing back through the issues to check -- crikey, the colouring's better in #5 than most of the previous ones... textures, highlights, the works. Well, on some pages... still not very consistent.)
 
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Old 2006-06-26, 02:18 PM   #35
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[@ Thread in general]Wow, that's a whole lot of excuses. I must say IDW have played this marvellously... they and Furman have stretched this mini-series to twice its' natural length, and they have scores of people going "I'm going to have to give this another 12 issues before I even begin to decide whether it's any good or not".

Now, I'm going to say it again. There is a middle way with all this. No, I don't want a comic just like whichever series Infiltration apologists are disembowelling as a not especially cunning smokescreen (we have the equivalent of "I wasn't really that keen on 'A Passage to India"/"It's better than Rambo" going on here). Denyer's managing to actually talk about Infiltration on its' own terms, while some of the rest of you are just getting in his way.

No, I don't want the Dreamwave stuff, or even really the Marvel stuff - think about this, I have those - why would I want to pay for them again? Oh, IDW do Generations as well, don't they?

I just want an enjoyable comic... The comics I prefer to read are probably either as good or better as those others in this thread read, so it's not an aversion to the "comics as art" style Infiltration desperately wants to emulate. Infiltration's more cerebral approach to Transformers hasn't been the problem - the concept and story are sound. I certainly don't want fight scenes, as so far the action has generally been the low point...

It's just be nice if the various plotlines had dovetailed a bit earlier, and if this (very necessary and technically sound) story had been compacted, it would have served its' purpose admirably. I think the narrative's been spun out to be TPB-friendly, or because Furman's up himself.

Infiltration is perhaps far too mired in its' obvious pretentsions to be E is for Extinction for Transformers. Aside from a simple change of premise (first contact is covert rather than overt) there's really been very little new about it (something which puts it alongside the first arc of the Marvel Ultimate titles, with the notable exception of the punchier Ultimates - and those arcs weren't any good on their own merit). Yes, it could prove to be a very good basis for the best TF stories yet. But is it all that good in its' own right? And, to be honest, it really needs to be. The original Marvel mini-series forms a solid foundation for their TF universe (whether this was used properly is another matter...), but it's not actually all that good at all. Infiltration is broadly enjoyable, but I'd say that's largely due to being able to mentally speed up the actions - if it was a film, a lot more people would be bored by now.
 
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Old 2006-06-26, 02:46 PM   #36
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Quote:
Originally posted by Cliffjumper

It's just be nice if the various plotlines had dovetailed a bit earlier, and if this (very necessary and technically sound) story had been compacted, it would have served its' purpose admirably. I think the narrative's been spun out to be TPB-friendly, or because Furman's up himself.
Well that’s where a lot of my gripes lie. The mentality that if we wait for the next thing to be over we will then be able to look back and smile is complete and utter nonsense. How can a six-issue story be a preview? We don't have the benefit of hindsight and even if we did it still doesn't justify 6 issues acting as a preview. Whether the last issue ties it all together (which I have serious reservations about anyway {See my last post in the #5 thread for details}) and we get a spiffy TPB it still doesn't change the individual merits of the issues. And in all honesty without reading them its difficult to distinguish/separate the first 3 issues from one another. If Stormbringer and Escalation turn out to be fantastic it won’t change my opinion of Infiltration.
 

Last edited by Aardvark; 2006-06-26 at 02:49 PM.
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Old 2006-06-26, 02:56 PM   #37
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I wouldn't actually be surprised if #6 doesn't solve anything, instead keeping pretty much everything open for "Escalation" or whatever the third arc is. I can see Prime not even showing up (not that this is a bad thing in itself) and things like that, which will be a problem as "Escalation" is going to need to hit the ground running.

I find it very interesting that something as (apparently - I still personally think the basic premise is simple subversion of the 1984 set-up, and much of the other stuff has been touched on before, and aside from that we're left with a simple switch of perspective which basically allows Furman to delay the origin until he decides on one) radical as Infiltration is followed by what looks to be a very fannish book in Stormbringer. As a marketing strategy it's brilliant. As a comic book, well, it's a bit bizarre.
 
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Old 2006-06-26, 03:04 PM   #38
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The one thing I'd hope Simon would strive to achieve is some decent characterisation of Thunderwing. Just so people could actually justify their reasons for thinking he's a "BADASS".
 

Last edited by Aardvark; 2006-06-26 at 03:08 PM.
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Old 2006-06-26, 03:08 PM   #39
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Quote:
Originally posted by Aardvark
The one thing I'd Hope Simon would strive to achieve is some decent characterisation of Thunderwing. Just so people could actually justify their reasons for thinking he's a "BADASS".
BUT HE SHOT HIS OWN MEN! AND NEARLY DIED ATTACKING THE ARK SOLO FOR NO APPARENT REASON! AND THE MATRIX DECIDED HE WAS AN INCOMPETANT COCK! AND HE LOOKS A BIT LIKE A NINJA! HE A BADASS!
 
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Old 2006-06-26, 03:10 PM   #40
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Plus, he doesn't seem to be a actual Pretender anymore but he still has that funky green face! BADASS!
 
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