[Dorling Kindersley] The Ultimate Guide
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[Dorling Kindersley] The Ultimate Guide
Hello. I was wondering something about the ultimate guide. Is it worth the purchase? I usually dig DK's books, especially the Star Wars one.
Is there any place with scans of it, in order for me to see a sample of what's inside?
Is there any place with scans of it, in order for me to see a sample of what's inside?
Ben included a couple of pages with his review:
http://www.bwtf.com/br/dkultimate.shtml
Wouldn't bother, personally -- a lot of it is grounded in Dreamwave continuity, and the new edition didn't allow for editing; it just contains a few extra pages of info leading into current stuff.
Then again, if you like the DK approach it might be your cup of tea. I wasn't too impressed by the comprehensiveness of the Batman one I read; reading around the subject on Wikipedia would probably be more in-depth.
(It's been published with various ISBN numbers, so look around on Amazon for secondhand copies.)
If you do get one, d'you feel like reviewing it?
http://www.bwtf.com/br/dkultimate.shtml
Wouldn't bother, personally -- a lot of it is grounded in Dreamwave continuity, and the new edition didn't allow for editing; it just contains a few extra pages of info leading into current stuff.
Then again, if you like the DK approach it might be your cup of tea. I wasn't too impressed by the comprehensiveness of the Batman one I read; reading around the subject on Wikipedia would probably be more in-depth.
(It's been published with various ISBN numbers, so look around on Amazon for secondhand copies.)
If you do get one, d'you feel like reviewing it?
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- Chris McFeely
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I second Halfshell's comment. I normally *love* DK's "Ultimate Guide" books - the ones for characters like Spider-Man, the X-Men, the Fantastic Four, the Avengers or Ghost Rider are great books that cover their entire history in print in a concise, informative manner. Where the TF book falls down is that this is NOT what it is - it's not a guide to "what has been," but a guide to "what is," more focused in attempting to create a new "definitive" Transformers continuity (the Dreamwave one, because it was current at the time) than in chroniciling the HISTORY of the franchise, which is what I wanted out of the book.
Now, that's not to say that the historical aspects go ignored - there ARE pages that cover the original cartoon and comics. But outside of those spreads, the entire G1 section is based around the Dreamwave universe, and this fails because the DW universe was so incredibly *underdeveloped* when the book was written. Consquently, most of the information in the book had to be MADE UP *FOR* THE BOOK, which to me is the *complete* antithesis of what an Ultimate Guide should be about.
This all applies only to the G1 section of the book, though. The BW, BM and Armada sections are quite well done. RiD is a ****ing joke, though, focusing only on toys and illustrated with a lot of bad images. And the incomplete nature of the tv show pages annoys me, as they pick and choose "select episodes" to talk about. Why not do them in the same maner as the comic pages, where, rather than do an issue-by-issue list, they just talk about the major events that happened?
Finally, what remains exceptionally tiresome is that everyone seems to think that Simon Furman is qualified to write every Transformers book ever. Because he's not. If someone who just *knew more* about what they were writing about, this book would be a lot better.
Despite ALL of that, though, if I ever see someone who has been out of Transformers since before Beast Wars wanting to get back into the franchise, I always reccommend this book. Although it's *specifics* are ****ed, it's a decent overview of what has been happening with Transformers since G1 that'll put you on the right track to getting back into the franchise. It's just really not much use for fans at all, because it's so low on actual, real historical information that it won't tell you a single damn thing you don't already know.
Now, that's not to say that the historical aspects go ignored - there ARE pages that cover the original cartoon and comics. But outside of those spreads, the entire G1 section is based around the Dreamwave universe, and this fails because the DW universe was so incredibly *underdeveloped* when the book was written. Consquently, most of the information in the book had to be MADE UP *FOR* THE BOOK, which to me is the *complete* antithesis of what an Ultimate Guide should be about.
This all applies only to the G1 section of the book, though. The BW, BM and Armada sections are quite well done. RiD is a ****ing joke, though, focusing only on toys and illustrated with a lot of bad images. And the incomplete nature of the tv show pages annoys me, as they pick and choose "select episodes" to talk about. Why not do them in the same maner as the comic pages, where, rather than do an issue-by-issue list, they just talk about the major events that happened?
Finally, what remains exceptionally tiresome is that everyone seems to think that Simon Furman is qualified to write every Transformers book ever. Because he's not. If someone who just *knew more* about what they were writing about, this book would be a lot better.
Despite ALL of that, though, if I ever see someone who has been out of Transformers since before Beast Wars wanting to get back into the franchise, I always reccommend this book. Although it's *specifics* are ****ed, it's a decent overview of what has been happening with Transformers since G1 that'll put you on the right track to getting back into the franchise. It's just really not much use for fans at all, because it's so low on actual, real historical information that it won't tell you a single damn thing you don't already know.
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Yeah, being the author of one aspect doesn't automatically qualify somebody as an authority on all of it.
What it needed was somebody who had a good grounding in most areas, with assists in each aspect from an expert in that field.
Suddenly an artist's impression of what it might look like is being presented to fans as what it actually is... then it winds up in official fiction later. That's not documenting info. That's pulling it out of your arse and letting future events cover you.
What it needed was somebody who had a good grounding in most areas, with assists in each aspect from an expert in that field.
I think the best example of this is Cybertron's robot mode. Okay, you can point to Cybertron Primus as being modelled after the image and yadda yadda yadda, but it doesn't change the fact that it was the first time in any kind of official anything where Cybertron had been depicted as having a transformation. It was a common fanwank idea, but one that could always be shot down as "Unicron spent his energy fashioning a robot mode, Primus spent his energy creating the Transformers to fight on his behalf".Chris McFeely wrote:Consquently, most of the information in the book had to be MADE UP *FOR* THE BOOK
Suddenly an artist's impression of what it might look like is being presented to fans as what it actually is... then it winds up in official fiction later. That's not documenting info. That's pulling it out of your arse and letting future events cover you.
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I don't think it's fully crap. I mean, it's an interesting read, but not everything in there is going to be accurate. It was DWcentric and like Brend said, they folded pretty soon after it was made. That said, if you're the type to spend time splitting hairs online about continuity...you need to spend less time online.
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Eh, it's not bad. I liked the toy info, and I love the Powermaster Prime pic.
And the editing foul-ups are amusing.
My question is, why make the G1 characterization changes? Listing Ironhide as a construction engineer made no sense(in Armada/Energon/Cybertron, sure, but G1?), and grounding Bludgeon as an adherent to the dark forces at work in the Transformers universe......
Have they changed anything aside from adding new pages for the IDW stuff in newer printings?
And the editing foul-ups are amusing.
My question is, why make the G1 characterization changes? Listing Ironhide as a construction engineer made no sense(in Armada/Energon/Cybertron, sure, but G1?), and grounding Bludgeon as an adherent to the dark forces at work in the Transformers universe......
Have they changed anything aside from adding new pages for the IDW stuff in newer printings?
As a professional tanuki (I'm a Japanese mythological animal, and a good luck charm), I have an alarm clock built into me somewhere. I also look like a stuffed animal. And you thought your life was tough......
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Bludgeon being an adherant of dark forces came from War Within: Dark Ages. In issue #1, Bludgeon, Mindwipe and Bugly are engaged in an arcane ritual when the Fallen enters their abode and recruits them as his acolytes.Heinrad wrote:Eh, it's not bad. I liked the toy info, and I love the Powermaster Prime pic.
And the editing foul-ups are amusing.
My question is, why make the G1 characterization changes? Listing Ironhide as a construction engineer made no sense(in Armada/Energon/Cybertron, sure, but G1?), and grounding Bludgeon as an adherent to the dark forces at work in the Transformers universe......
Have they changed anything aside from adding new pages for the IDW stuff in newer printings?
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Which is part of the reason the book is ultimately worthless as a character guide, things like the entry on Bludgeon only apply to one now defunct continuity rather that in this case only featured for a few issues.
I do agree that the bias towards Furman written comics is a little unfortunate, and probably misses the target audience a fair bit as well (the average nostalgia buyer is going to be more interested in the cartoon than Alignment and so on).
I do agree that the bias towards Furman written comics is a little unfortunate, and probably misses the target audience a fair bit as well (the average nostalgia buyer is going to be more interested in the cartoon than Alignment and so on).
Whether or not the DW continuity is "defunct" or not is moot. The book was written while the DW continuity was in effect and the information DW itself used was taken from previous canon, in Bludgeon's case, from his tech spec and from Marvel, where he was more mystic. It has always been part of who Bludgeon is. http://www.unicron.us/tf1989/toypix/bludgeon.htm I was reading the Spotlight vol 2 TPB which included Spotlight: Soundwave, which had Bludgeon in it, and even there he was a mystic involved in arcane arts and such. It is something long established as part of his character. It was Simon Furman who instilled that into his character early on in Marvel, Furman who instilled it into his character in War Within: Dark Ages, and instilled it in Spotlight: Soundwave and in Stormbringer. Bludgeon is the classic mystic martial artist. A practitioner and believer in mystic arts and arcane codes and knowledge. He always has been. That wasn't just DW.inflatable dalek wrote:Which is part of the reason the book is ultimately worthless as a character guide, things like the entry on Bludgeon only apply to one now defunct continuity rather that in this case only featured for a few issues.
I do agree that the bias towards Furman written comics is a little unfortunate, and probably misses the target audience a fair bit as well (the average nostalgia buyer is going to be more interested in the cartoon than Alignment and so on).
Hmm. I don't know.... I wouldn't call Bludgeon a practitioner of dark arts, etc, in the IDW-verse (both in Stormbringer and Spotlight: Soundwave). Perhaps a martial artist, that does some to be a given with him. IDW's portrayal of him, though admittedly, seemed to take some cues from previous incarnations as a fanatic (at least in DW). IDW's Bludgeon has been more like a mad cult leader who, among other things, had believed that sending a non-sentient Thunderwing on a second rampage would purify and restore Cybertron to its formal glory. I don't recall him dabbling in dark arts in order to execute this vision. He's just a nut.
A cultist. By that very word, that implies arcane arts and the occult—dark arts and mysticism. not necessarily "hocus-pocus", but definatley occult knowledge and mystic beliefs. Metillikato is itself a mystic art, combining elements of both Circuit-Su and Chrystalocution with a strong dose of spirituality thrown in. That in and of itself makes him a practitioner of mystic arts.zigzagger wrote:Hmm. I don't know.... I wouldn't call Bludgeon a practitioner of dark arts, etc, in the IDW-verse (both in Stormbringer and Spotlight: Soundwave). Perhaps a martial artist, that does some to be a given with him. IDW's portrayal of him, though admittedly, seemed to take some cues from previous incarnations as a fanatic (at least in DW). IDW's Bludgeon has been more like a mad cult leader who, among other things, had believed that sending a non-sentient Thunderwing on a second rampage would purify and restore Cybertron to its formal glory. I don't recall him dabbling in dark arts in order to execute this vision. He's just a nut.