TFARCHIVE FORUMS

Talk about 'em here if you so desire, though I think most people here got the Titan volumes for the stuff they wanted.

So far they've included a smattering of US issues, an expanding roster of UK material, inclusions in TF Magazine, and announced 'Essentials'-style trades.

Information about the original comics can be found here:

http://tfarchive.com/comics/marvel/ (issues)

http://tfarchive.com/comics/titan/reprints/ (other reprints)

...and information about the new reprints here:

http://tfarchive.com/comics/idw/

Can I say again how ****ed off I am still at the moving of the "Ultra Magnus defeated!" cliffhanger from the end of one issue to the start of the next, seeming deliberately and for no good reason? Especially as The Best of Simon Furman gets it right...

So, why is there no mention anywhere of the new IDW reprints of the original US Marvel series? I can't find a thread about it, so I'll post it here.

This book is huge, and a steal for the price for someone like me who hasn't picked up any of the previous reprints and doesn't have many of the original US comics. I hope they go ahead with their plan and reprint all of them. It would be a very nice collection to get all these.

There are a couple that aren't reprinted (though a synopsis is given on both by a one Stuart Denyer/Denyar...is that Denyer from here? Since it was spelled a couple ways, I wasn't sure. If it is...sorry they spelled your name wrong once, man.)

Anywho...if there's a thread somewhere on this, sorry I posted in the wrong place, but would appreciate a redirect.

Brimstone wrote:So, why is there no mention anywhere of the new IDW reprints of the original US Marvel series?

This is basically it for now -- most of the chat about Generations happened in the news forum, tended to take the view that UK stuff should be moved onto, and I think most people here have got TPBs or issues for Marvel stuff that IDW's released so far. Personally I picked up a few Generations issues for the Roche artwork.

Don't suppose you've got a digital camera? I have no idea what Justin will have used, and mail-order stuff. Did later announcements turn out to be correct and the book's in colour?

Brimstone wrote:sorry they spelled your name wrong

No surprises... for my part, I'm just hoping I didn't typo any numbers if those bits got kept. That and the stuff for the first volume is quite chatty / a lot of panels were off-limits; the second volume notes are more straightforward summary and I wasn't making up a format for them by that point.

What issues are in "Classic Transformers Volume 1"?

The Amazon blurb just says "Car Wash of Doom," "Crater Critters," and "Warrior School"

AFAIK, V1 covers the period of US #1-16 and V2 about the same amount of material.

Denyer wrote:AFAIK, V1 covers the period of US #1-16 and V2 about the same amount of material.

Hmmm. Interesting. So, if the book is 312 pages and is in chronological order, Car Wash of Doom is not in this volume then (it being #31)? Must be a generalized solicitation for all the volumes (assuming enough volumes are released to complete the series). Or does it skip a few issues?

Again AFAIK, there are two issues in the first book that couldn't be reprinted in full, with it being a similar case for V2.

What Amazon have is a speculative solicit from about half a year ago (which is the lead time Amazon require for listings) that they don't appear to have changed despite updating cover info recently -- the Diamond info gives:

http://www.comicnewsi.com/article.php?c ... emid=10559

this first volume offers some of the most beloved stories from the past, including the seminal “The Last Stand,” “The Worse of Two Evils,” “I, Robot Master,” and many others.

It's really a very bad idea for the info given to Amazon to contain any specifics, as they then become the source of info for other sites & stores / the info that comes out of search engines.

The reprinted comics in "Classic Transformers Volume 1" are in B&W, right?

I was thinking of buying it as a present for a friend of mine but I dont know if the art will be plesent to look at without colors (as it wasnt drawn to be published in this format).

To Brimstone: you gave a description of the trade, could you please tell what do you think of how the art came out? + how long/detailed are the synopsis for issue 3 &9?

adamtrion wrote:The reprinted comics in "Classic Transformers Volume 1" are in B&W, right?

I was thinking of buying it as a present for a friend of mine but I dont know if the art will be plesent to look at without colors (as it wasnt drawn to be published in this format).

Well, to be honest, Nel Yomtov's coloring on the old Marvel book was so awful that it often times hindered the thing. The only problem with black and white I can imagine is telling the repaints apart, though half the time they refer to themselves by name via crude exposition anyway, so it really doesn't matter.

Does anyone knows why Titan got permission to print issues #3 & 9 and IDW didn't?

IDW did publish issue#7 and Circuit Breaker/Josie Beller did appeared in it.

It doesnt make sense to me.

+ if the only problem with those two issues are the Marvel Characters why not just change the characters appearance? I mean, the reprints are B&W anyway, how hard would it be to give Peter Parker a moustache and change his logo from Spider to say Lobster? and give Circuit Breaker some clothes?

After all, the comics were made by order of Hasbro and they didn't ask for those characters to be in the Transformers comics.

adamtrion wrote:Does anyone knows why Titan got permission to print issues #3 & 9 and IDW didn't?[/b]

Because Titan pay for all the appropriate licences, and IDW didn't.

if the only problem with those two issues are the Marvel Characters why not just change the characters appearance? I mean, the reprints are B&W anyway, how hard would it be to give Peter Parker a moustache and change his logo from Spider to say Lobster? and give Circuit Breaker some clothes?

Because that'd be retarded, and just annoy people? Aside from Lobsters not being known for their webs?

After all, the comics were made by order of Hasbro and they didn't ask for those characters to be in the Transformers comics.

No, they asked for Marvel's help in setting up, oh, the entire fictional universe. Spider-Man probably didn't hurt sales, and therefore was a factor in the full series being commissioned. I'd rather only be able to get reprints from a certain publisher than have just four issues.

IDW are the ones who want to supplement their income on the property with minimum costs by repackaging material that was repackaged a couple of years ago.

DrSpengler wrote:Well, to be honest, Nel Yomtov's coloring on the old Marvel book was so awful that it often times hindered the thing. The only problem with black and white I can imagine is telling the repaints apart, though half the time they refer to themselves by name via crude exposition anyway, so it really doesn't matter.

I can concur here... Over in the UK, for the first six months or so we got half of the strip in B&W, and it often looked better than Crayola Yomtov's inept antics. And with characters that shared anything approaching similar character models, chances are Yomtov would **** it up anyway. The qualifier would be if they could get hold of original pencil/ink art rather than just greyscaling the pages. Actually, that would still look better than anything Yomtov managed. Inept, colourblind idiot.

Because Titan pay for all the appropriate licences, and IDW didn't.

nice to know.

Because that'd be retarded, and just annoy people? Aside from Lobsters not being known for their webs?

I dont agree.

A) Hasbro own the comics and they have the right to publish it (or sell the rights to publish it) any time they want without it being an issue with Marvel.

B) The change of the name and appernce of Circuit Breaker to say 'Robot Breaker' (or something else) is not that critical and the same goes for Spidey. It's not like the TF are within thr main Marvel Universe.
+ the Lobster was only a suggestion (and a kind of in joke to readers of Spidey comics). he can easily be painted all black and named the 'black ant', Tarantulas or whatever.

Its a practical solution. not eveybodys cup of tea but a solution none the less.

Legally, I don't think it would be. I'm pretty sure legally I couldn't trace a Spider-Man comic, but change his name to The Tarantula (he was painted all-damn black in the bloody comic in the first place...) or whatever and put it out. Otherwise Marvel could just change every single trademark in the TF series and put it out as The Robotoids.

If IDW gave a toss enough, they'd probably have to totally redraw the comic, replacing Peter and Josie with some of their own famous characters, like... erm... ah... But even if IDW owned more than Verity, Rad and Carlos, the whole point of Generations from their point of view is that it's free money. If they gave a **** about putting out a complete set of reprints, they wouldn't have ran #7 and then #13 in two months. The original mini has also been reprinted more times than the bible... So their taking your hasn't left you totally satisfied? I doubt they care.

And I see no real problem with Marvel retaining the rights to characters they have the rights to. That they have no rights whatsoever to a comic they developed, created and produced for eight years is a little more insane, IMO. Both are just vagaries of licensed comics, and Hasbro obviously didn't object to Josie at the time as she appeared for most of the title's life.

adamtrion wrote:The reprinted comics in "Classic Transformers Volume 1" are in B&W, right?

It's apparently (as in, a senior editor has pointed out publicly a format change was decided after the solicit was written and released to Diamond) in colour -- I can't say 100% as I haven't seen a copy yet. Wait for Brimstone to post again.

adamtrion wrote:Does anyone knows why Titan got permission to print issues #3 & 9 and IDW didn't?

Cliffjumper wrote:Because Titan pay for all the appropriate licences, and IDW didn't.

Not as I understand it. Marvel won't make an equivalent deal with IDW for whatever reason -- history's shown their legal department is particularly touchy about Spider-Man, so I'd guess it's because IDW are a direct US comics competitor in a way Titan aren't.

adamtrion wrote:Hasbro own the comics and they have the right to publish it (or sell the rights to publish it) any time they want without it being an issue with Marvel.

No they don't, as both Spider-Man and Circuit Breaker are pre-existing Marvel characters that weren't created for Transformers. Marvel can't reprint the material without Hasbro's say-so, but Hasbro can't authorise anyone to use the Marvel likenesses. It isn't as simple as changing names.

That much is a fairly simple legal situation...

And I don't know how many of the notes were used, but I sent about three sides of A4 including text and panel selections per issue that needed them.

Denyer wrote:Not as I understand it. Marvel won't make an equivalent deal with IDW for whatever reason -- history's shown their legal department is particularly touchy about Spider-Man, so I'd guess it's because IDW are a direct US comics competitor in a way Titan aren't.

I suspect it really is as simple as that they're competitors... In broad terms it can seem a little petty, but comics is a business and Marvel'd look like idiots in the unlikely, but theoretically possible, event that in five years time IDW run them out of business.

TF #3 only really works with Spider-Man, as most of his powers get a work-out - Spidey-sense and the webs being the most notable (and, as comic powers go, pretty unique - I read on some Yahoo! Group that the Spider's web pistol disappears in later strips because Marvel had a quiet word). Renaming/redrawing would result in a clone of Spider-Man, and while Marvel would possibly let that go in a pastische (sp?) cameo in another comic, if it was done to try and basically take the piss, their legal team would grind IDW into the dust because they'd have a pretty enforcable case that their flagship character had been openly ripped off.

Have they had to do anything about the Savage Land mentions? Was the text modified, or is that minor enough that a blind eye was turned?

Cliffjumper wrote:Have they had to do anything about the Savage Land mentions? Was the text modified, or is that minor enough that a blind eye was turned?

With no actual likenesses involved, I'm 99% sure it passes. As does using panels from the other issues that mention character names but don't show them, going on correspondence I've had. Not sure if the shadow of Circuit Breaker is going to have made it in for one panel choice, for example... but it may be more a case of showing willing to Marvel, and they're not going to care about unidentifiable specks in the background of panels for other choices.

All in all, it was an interesting exercise in working around restrictions...

Titan's arrangement with Marvel actually came at a point Marvel had different people in management authorising, and is a deal for other material besides TFs.

How IDW got permission to reprint US #75, I don't know.

edit:

adamtrion wrote:IDW did publish issue#7 and Circuit Breaker/Josie Beller did appeared in it.

She's not Circuit Breaker in that issue, and it appears to be the costumed character Marvel have a trademark for.

It's cool knowing a celebrity

Denyer wrote: Titan's arrangement with Marvel actually came at a point Marvel had different people in management authorising, and is a deal for other material besides TFs.

Yeh, I think the telling thing about Titan is that, I believe, they're licensed to reprint DC and Marvel material. Compared to that, being allowed to run TF #3 is small beer...

US #75, my guess is that Circuit Breaker not having a particularly large role is a bit of a factor, maybe meaning Marvel let it fly as a one-off. The co-starring role she had in the earlier issues is probably not so subtle. Maybe a simple case of Marvel were amicable enough for one time, but felt the full series reprint was too much?

Denyer wrote: She's not Circuit Breaker in that issue, and it appears to be the costumed character Marvel have a trademark for.

I'm still not sure how that works, where she's in the costume she's Marvel property and when she's not she isn't. If nothing else- considering the bunged her in Secret Wars solely on the off chance they'd want to exploit her latter without owing Hasbro anything- Marvel would have made sure to stake a claim to the whole character including her secret identity?

EDIT: Denyer, you relise as a credited contributor to a official TF Product you could probably bblag your way onto the guest list of conventions now?

Cliffjumper wrote:It's cool knowing a celebrity

There's not really a shortage of people who can précis and know more than the average punter about the material...

Cliffjumper wrote:The co-starring role she had in the earlier issues

#9 is the introduction of the character, after all -- although there's an earlier appearance in non-TF comics (which is why she's Marvel property) it is where all of the origin stuff was detailed.

I'd hazard a guess at a request via Hasbro being used to get #75, but the parent company likely wouldn't press a point to get Spider-Man material. Marvel (or someone there) was probably acting with as much goodwill as they could reasonably swing without internal conflict. For the rest I doubt anyone's actively protecting Circuit Breaker much, but for purposes of these two books it's in the same batch of requests as the other -- and is the main intro of the character. (All spec, mind.)

In Budiansky's run, the Marvel trademarks are inessential. In Furman's it'd gut the main arc to have to remove and work around all of the Neo-Knight panel appearances.

edit:

I'm still not sure how that works, where she's in the costume she's Marvel property and when she's not she isn't.

Trademarks have to be registered. As far as I'm aware Marvel don't hold the copyright on the TF comics; Hasbro do. Apparently no-one registered TM details for a "Josie Beller; generic human female whose likeness changes between issues."

Not even sure if Peter Parker is trademarked, though use a character called that and attach spider-stuff and you'd be heading for a fall.

Bear in mind that a guide to something has a little extra legal flexibility, because it's a written work about a work. Limited use of material may qualify for fair use.